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#4092128 - 03/14/15 05:13 PM Another WOFF moment...  
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You know I hate to wax on like an addled schoolboy with his first crush but I have been simming for a whole lot of years and there are things that happen in WOFF you just don't see in any other sim. Man this game is cool (or I seriously need to get a life!) and it's the only game that gives me these "Wow" moments. I am glad I am devoting more time to it (luckily) now that the kids are grown and the other half has her new job. Got to get it now because yard work is just around the corner.

March 29, 1917 flying with 60 Squadron.
Take off occurs in a nasty snow squall with grey skies and mists all around. I half considered aborting.
As we fly in this nastiness climbing for the front we enter the big dark clouds and fly for a few moments.
Suddenly it gets lighter and poof! We are above the clouds in the blue sky and sunshine while the nasty weather continues below. Does this neat stuff happen in any other sim?

#4092298 - 03/15/15 02:27 AM Re: Another WOFF moment... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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I don't know but that would be scary! Often clouds are very disorienting, you come out in a steep bank or climb or something- anything but straight and level.

Just curious, how the dickens do you find your way home again, with just ground maps & landmarks to guide you? I'm trying to go full authentic and I figure at some point I have to print out RAF_Louvert's maps or something - if I were separated from my flight leader, I'd probably never find my way back - without the M key... sigh


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#4092306 - 03/15/15 03:32 AM Re: Another WOFF moment... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Just think like.....head north till I hit the town of so and so,then west till I hit the river and follow that north again till I hit the large forest etc.

#4092340 - 03/15/15 08:54 AM Re: Another WOFF moment... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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High over the Front
Oh I use the TAC for navigation purposes.
As we discussed in another thread trying to go "full real" for navigation is not very practical IMHO.

EDIT: Good lord...grammar

Last edited by DukeIronHand; 03/15/15 02:43 PM.
#4092383 - 03/15/15 12:49 PM Re: Another WOFF moment... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Originally Posted By: DukeIronHand
...I have been simming for a whole lot of years and there are things that happen in WOFF you just don't see
in any other sim. Man this game is cool (...) and it's the only game that gives me these "Wow" moments.

That is all very fine, Duke, and I couldn't agree more; but mind you: WOFF is NOT a game! ... biggrin


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#4092386 - 03/15/15 01:02 PM Re: Another WOFF moment... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Sorry sir you are correct.
It's a lifestyle I reckon...and a state of mind!

#4092418 - 03/15/15 03:46 PM Re: Another WOFF moment... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Originally Posted By: DukeIronHand
Sorry sir you are correct.
It's a lifestyle I reckon...and a state of mind!


Couldn't agree more.

We should note that the acronym DID doesn't just mean "Dead is Dead." According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-V), DID means "dissociative identity disorder," more commonly known as multiple personality disorder. It is "characterized by at least two distinct and relatively enduring identities or dissociated personality states that alternately control a person's behavior, and is accompanied by memory impairment for important information not explained by ordinary forgetfulness."

Sums up the WOFF DID experience nicely, doesn't it?

#4092423 - 03/15/15 04:14 PM Re: Another WOFF moment... [Re: Raine]  
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Originally Posted By: Raine
Originally Posted By: DukeIronHand
Sorry sir you are correct.
It's a lifestyle I reckon...and a state of mind!


Couldn't agree more.

We should note that the acronym DID doesn't just mean "Dead is Dead." According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-V), DID means "dissociative identity disorder," more commonly known as multiple personality disorder. It is "characterized by at least two distinct and relatively enduring identities or dissociated personality states that alternately control a person's behavior, and is accompanied by memory impairment for important information not explained by ordinary forgetfulness."

Sums up the WOFF DID experience nicely, doesn't it?


Trust you to figure that out Raine, and so aptly put! thumbsup


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#4092824 - 03/16/15 04:35 PM Re: Another WOFF moment... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Well, we are, after all, "Barmy". Forget the technical diagnosis!

@Wolfstriked - Well, yeah, I've done that type of dead reckoning, but that was my question - how do you do it with a pretty extensive cloud layer below? Even better, how did THEY do it? 'Way back on my younger days I learned about wind triangles & a more-or-less "I've flown at this speed for this much time at this heading, so I should be here..." sort of thing, but I can't imagine that working too well while you're trying to fly these beauties. Busdriver or some of the other pilots on here might recall the circular slide rules that they used to have for this purpose. They may have had similar devices back then, I don't know; but it seems more like you said - get below the clouds, or peep between them, find a recognizable landmark, and head home!


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#4092837 - 03/16/15 05:14 PM Re: Another WOFF moment... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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While I don't think I wrote in this post that I just fly below the clouds,I actually do just that if they obstruct too much.And no watching the clock over distance but rather just flying from waypoint to waypoint.Example=fly north past Lille/past river/@Menen head west to Ypres.And I remember someone posting here that the pilots of the day would set their waypoints in just that way.After being at an airfield for awhile you learn where the towns are and it becomes easier.

Also,picture of a real landscape has so many subtleties that the maps we have right now in sims just can't compare.

#4093095 - 03/17/15 12:46 PM Re: Another WOFF moment... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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You know, I've flown enough for my job that I have a game I play on the way home - "how far from Pittsburgh can I recognize where I am?" And even being a very directionally-able person, and having lived here all my life, and having taken the same approaches over and over again, I'm often surprised at how close we have to get before I can figure it out. Or, as in one trip coming from the east, I recognized a town about 4 hrs. drive away, and was following the landmarks, and got screwed up again about halfway home due to some clouds. It's just different looking from the air, so I know what you mean.

I guess at least in an open cockpit you'd have a wider field of view than out an airliner window!

But Duke's leader apparently took them up above the clouds. And I guess if you got separated from your flight, the only practical thing is to get below the clouds (and hope they haven't turned to fog...) and try to figure out where you are. Situational awareness is paramount, eh?!


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#4093114 - 03/17/15 01:49 PM Re: Another WOFF moment... [Re: HumanDrone]  
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Originally Posted By: HumanDrone
You know, I've flown enough for my job that I have a game I play on the way home - "how far from Pittsburgh can I recognize where I am?" And even being a very directionally-able person, and having lived here all my life, and having taken the same approaches over and over again, I'm often surprised at how close we have to get before I can figure it out. Or, as in one trip coming from the east, I recognized a town about 4 hrs. drive away, and was following the landmarks, and got screwed up again about halfway home due to some clouds. It's just different looking from the air, so I know what you mean.

I guess at least in an open cockpit you'd have a wider field of view than out an airliner window!

But Duke's leader apparently took them up above the clouds. And I guess if you got separated from your flight, the only practical thing is to get below the clouds (and hope they haven't turned to fog...) and try to figure out where you are. Situational awareness is paramount, eh?!


The one thing that would worry me as a pilot in those times, is flying in a landscape that is devoid of much civilization (far canadian north, desert country in Africa, etc.) There is not much in the way of roads, rails, or towns to take a bearing on and being of a couple of degrees in a long flight could put you way of the destination mark. I give those bush pilots a tremendous amount of credit especially in the early days when topo maps were not so detailed.

Last edited by Robert_Wiggins; 03/17/15 01:49 PM.

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#4095937 - 03/24/15 08:43 AM Re: Another WOFF moment... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Looks like a common screenshot, but this one reminds me of the time I escorted my wounded wingman back to base while I struggled to fly just above stalling speed.




One thing I noticed on this mission is that this wounded AI plane would keep circling the base and not land. Then I landed first and kept the sim running for about 30 minutes, but it did not land.

#4095942 - 03/24/15 09:14 AM Re: Another WOFF moment... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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OldHat I salute you for being a glutton for punishment. I flew one career sortie in that crate...then kept clicking Advance time until my lowly Sgt character got a BrisFit.

As an aside, you might consider a RL technique when escorting a wounded flight mate. We had a "wounded bird" standard procedure where you flew tactical line abreast if the wounded airplane could maintain a tactical speed. If it could not then his wingman would fly an S pattern well off to the side at a tactical speed until back in friendly territory. Once safe then fly closer but never hanging on just above a stall. FWIW...

#4095946 - 03/24/15 09:38 AM Re: Another WOFF moment... [Re: OldHat]  
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Originally Posted By: OldHat
Looks like a common screenshot, but this one reminds me of the time I escorted my wounded wingman back to base while I struggled to fly just above stalling speed.




One thing I noticed on this mission is that this wounded AI plane would keep circling the base and not land. Then I landed first and kept the sim running for about 30 minutes, but it did not land.


Interesting. I will watch this in the future.
I know when the AI suffers a mechanical failure they head to the nearest friendly aerodrome presumably to land. Guess I never paid attention after that. Now with no aids I will really have to watch - literally.
Never escorted a damaged plane back - nice touch sir!

#4095964 - 03/24/15 10:40 AM Re: Another WOFF moment... [Re: OldHat]  
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Originally Posted By: OldHat
... I landed first and kept the sim running for about 30 minutes, but it did not land.

Were you the flight leader? In that case you could have tried the "Land here" command.
But normally they do land in the same field anyway, when they are so close with you.


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#4095984 - 03/24/15 11:34 AM Re: Another WOFF moment... [Re: Olham]  
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Originally Posted By: Olham
Originally Posted By: OldHat
... I landed first and kept the sim running for about 30 minutes, but it did not land.

Were you the flight leader? In that case you could have tried the "Land here" command.
But normally they do land in the same field anyway, when they are so close with you.


Yeah, that is odd behavior.

#4096079 - 03/24/15 02:16 PM Re: Another WOFF moment... [Re: HumanDrone]  
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Originally Posted By: HumanDrone
Well, we are, after all, "Barmy". Forget the technical diagnosis!

@Wolfstriked - Well, yeah, I've done that type of dead reckoning, but that was my question - how do you do it with a pretty extensive cloud layer below? Even better, how did THEY do it? 'Way back on my younger days I learned about wind triangles & a more-or-less "I've flown at this speed for this much time at this heading, so I should be here..." sort of thing, but I can't imagine that working too well while you're trying to fly these beauties. Busdriver or some of the other pilots on here might recall the circular slide rules that they used to have for this purpose. They may have had similar devices back then, I don't know; but it seems more like you said - get below the clouds, or peep between them, find a recognizable landmark, and head home!


In a nutshell. By the seat of their pants. Can't remember the book but 2 Britishers on a night mission were coming back from a bombing mission in the dark and clouds obscured the ground. They flew until the pilot was sure he was back over the lines and dropped below the clouds to see where he was. Not knowing the wind had changed and his airspeed was a lot slower than he figured, when he dropped down and saw a field he landed. Much to his horror he noticed he was at a German field. Took back off before anyone could do anything and made it back.

I use Lou's maps on another small monitor. Open it with paint and plot my flight plan. "MY" plan, not the sim flight plan.Once in the air I use "shiftW" to change the waypoint to the target. How I get there is my buisness. I have been lost plenty. Not as much now but when I started flying by maps on a cloudy or snowy day it happened more than I like to admit. For me it is just one more step in immersion that I would not do without. As others have stated, if you live long enough, you learn landmarks and can find your way. After a furball and chase, finding myself alone I look at the map and say "I should be about here", if I go northwest I should see this city, then go south. It works. Mind you, flying an early Nieuport without a compass is a whole new can of worms.

My flights are usually with British Squads as I like there planes and love chasing the colorful Huns. I will admit that I take off, fly to the front, pause, get up and walk around to let my bones loosen up, go back and fly the patrol, then depending on how long I have been in the saddle, might fly back to base or pause again after crossing back over the front, then head to base. My body cannot sit for an hour at a time.


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#4096143 - 03/24/15 03:41 PM Re: Another WOFF moment... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Thank you, MFair, then it's pretty much like I figured. And I agree - it adds to the immersion. I love the guy landing at an enemy field - figure you're probably ready to soil yourself at the time, trying to get out of there in the fastest manner possible, but in a few years you may find it hilarious!

I don't have a second monitor, so I wonder they'd mind me using the plotter here at work?


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#4096220 - 03/24/15 06:17 PM Re: Another WOFF moment... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Thanks for the advise, busdriver. I'll use that when it happens next time.

I wasn't the flight leader, Olham, but I'll remember that command when I am.

Duke, try to go "against the grain" and play totally different:
If you time compress -> Then don't use it. Fly the boring parts Full Real.
If you always land at base first while everyone is still miles behind you -> Then wait for your turn to land.
If you quit the mission once you land -> Then drive to your hanger after landing.
If you use inflight map -> Then use Lou's map instead... and so on.... This play style makes each mission a memorable one.

I have two full real careers going on as well as a bunch of other ones where I'll use time compression between waypoints as well as advance time by one week after each mission.

Another interesting thing that happened on this mission was when my observer was hit. I heard the "oomph" sound when the bullet hit, but my health percentage didn't go down. He was very sluggish to move and didn't have quick reactions even when I was stuck on the EA's six. At the mission debriefing, my observer was "mortally wounded" and I was not injured or hospitalized.

#4096254 - 03/24/15 06:35 PM Re: Another WOFF moment... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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High over the Front
Nice (game play wise of course and not for "him") about the observer and what happened to him.
Another tip of the hat to OBD.

#4096266 - 03/24/15 06:45 PM Re: Another WOFF moment... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Originally Posted By: DukeIronHand
Nice (game play wise of course and not for "him") about the observer and what happened to him.
Another tip of the hat to OBD.

Ditto to that!


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#4191983 - 11/07/15 08:01 PM Re: Another WOFF moment... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Originally Posted By: DukeIronHand
You know I hate to wax on like an addled schoolboy with his first crush but I have been simming for a whole lot of years and there are things that happen in WOFF you just don't see in any other sim. Man this game is cool (or I seriously need to get a life!) and it's the only game that gives me these "Wow" moments.


I've always wondered and felt a bit jealous that people are experiencing these cool feelings and I wasn't able to feel it. Was I turning into a hardened rock after all this time tinkering with WOFF?... nope, I just had an awesome moment of my own.

2 March 1916, 1 Sqn. RNAS, N10.C1, Flight was Dallas (HA), Me and a wingman.
After gaining altitude about 1km offshore north of Dunkirk, we head out to our assigned patrol area above the front. We flew into thick layers of large cumulus clouds the whole time. Then all of sudden shots were hitting me from I don't know where. I couldn't see behind me too well (thanks to my new profile), so I panicked and turned my machine to see who it was. I still couldn't see anyone, so I tried to look around for my flight. I started to feel claustrophobic inside that cockpit with those large wings and metallic glass shield blocking most of my view. I lost my flight, but saw the Aviatik that had probably shot at me from below and under cover of clouds. I eventually caught up to it and started to shoot, but lost it again when it flew into the clouds.

THE MOMENT: 5 km behind enemy lines @ 6000 ft, strong gusts of wind making me use some aileron and rudder to stay level, heading back home, still claustrophobic not able to see everything like I used to and flak bursting around me.... Then silence with only the sound of my engine and occasional gust of wind, can't see the ground due to the clouds.... AND I'M ALONE!

I paused the game just to get myself comfortable and turned off all the lights in the room. I was immersed inside WW1 for 10 minutes where sight, sound and panic all melded together in an awesome WOFF moment.

Hats off to OBD. Well done fellas.
cheers

#4192014 - 11/07/15 09:25 PM Re: Another WOFF moment... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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I know what you mean, OldHat - the depth of emotions and atmospheres is unreached by any other sim IMHO.

I just had one of those sorties.
After days of dreadful weather, the new morning arose with the hazy beauty of a tea rose - and I knew -
for an hour - that we were invincible, and immortal...



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