1979, S-300PT Birusa (SA-10A) fielded in the Soviet Union 5V55K missile 47*km range *Command guided only
1983, S-300PS Volhov-M6 (SA-10B) fielded in the Soviet Union 5V55K missile 47*km range 5V55R missile 75km range *Command guided only
1984, Patriot fielded in the USA MIM-104 Standard missile 68,5km range
1986, Patriot PAC-1 fielded in the USA MIM-104A Standard missile 68,5 range MIM-104B SOJC missile 160*km range *Home On Jam only
1989, S-300PM Volhov-M6M (SA-20A) fielded in the Soviet Union 48N6 missile 150km range
1989, S-300PMU Volhov-M6 (SA-10B) exported into East Germany, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, China 5V55K missile 47*km range 5V55R missile 75km range *Command guided only
1989, Patriot exported into Germany, Netherlands, Japan, Israel*(2002), Spain*(2004/2014), Korea*(2008) MIM-104A Standard missile 68,5km range *ExGerman system re-exported
1990, Patriot PAC-2 fielded in the USA MIM-104C ATM missile 160km range
1990, Patriot PAC-2 exported into Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Taiwan, Greece MIM-104C ATM missile 160km
1994, S-300PMU-1 Volhov-M6M (SA-20A) exported into China, Greece, Algeria, Vietnam 48N6E missile 150km range
1995, Patriot GEM fielded in the USA MIM-104D GEM missile 220km range MIM-104E GEM+ missile 220*km range *C [ATM] missile upgrade for D [GEM] capabilities, known as GEM+
2001, Patriot PAC-3 fielded in the USA MIM-104D GEM missile 220km range MIM-104E GEM+ missile 220*km range MIM-104F PAC-3 missile 30**km range *C [ATM] missile upgrade for D [GEM] capabilities, known as GEM+ ** ATBM missile
2004, S-300PMU-2 Favorit (SA-20B) exported into China 48N6E2 missile 200km range 9M96E missile 30*km range *ATBM missile
2004, Patriot PAC-3 exported into Netherlands, Japan, Germany, Emirates, Kuwait, Taiwan, Korea, Qatar MIM-104E GEM+ missile 220*km range MIM-104F PAC-3 missile 30**km range *C [ATM] missile upgrade for D [GEM] capabilities, known as GEM+ ** ATBM missile
2007, S-400 Triumf (SA-21) fielded in the Russia 48N6DM missile 250km range 9M96 missile 30*km range *ATBM missile
Each new SAM system version can use the earlier missile types, a marked difference from single digit Soviet designs.
Last edited by Hpasp; 03/13/1511:49 AM.
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Hpasp... Would u talk about mim-104 standard guiding command ? Is it phase array ? Or PAC series appointed to phase array ? What different between gem and ATM ?
Traditional command guided missile (like the Volhov/Neva/KRUG) 5V55K missile 47km range
SAGG (Seeker Aided Ground Guidance) missiles 5V55R missile 75km range 48N6/48N6E missile 150km range 48N6E2 missile 200km range 48N6DM missile 250km range
TVM (Track Via Missile) missiles MIM-104 Standard missile 68,5km range MIM-104A Standard missile 68,5 range MIM-104C ATM missile 160km range MIM-104D GEM missile 220km range MIM-104E GEM+ missile 220km range
OBHOJ (On Board Home On Jam) MIM-104B SOJC missile 160km range
ARH (Active Radar Homing) ATBM missiles MIM-104F PAC-3 missile 30km range 9M96 missile 30km range
Last edited by Hpasp; 03/19/1507:55 PM.
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Interesting comparison of Soviet/US design... ... rather similarity.
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Good sources hpasp May I ask something ? Could we hopeless to see patriot in this year with these books?
I think epap can help us in this way
From current computer technology point of view, Patriot is such a charming old (end of '70s) digital computer technology (with green characters/lines on a green mono-color screen) having a redundant (dual) core 6MHz (!!!) processor and a redundant (dual) 256kbyte (total of 512kbyte) of memory...
... but by usability/war-fighting capability wise, if you compare it to the most modern Soviet SAM system (OSA) in SAMSIM, you would left only to wonder over the huge technological leap the US were capable of during the '80s leapfrogging the east beyond imagination.
"it would be the most boring SAMSIM ever"
Last edited by Hpasp; 03/31/1509:34 PM.
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
OSA is the best modern system in samsim... for the first prototype of modern system on samsim .. YES! this system is a guiding tunnel to the modern edge
but on the other side.. we need high range sam's for new challenges !
it not only about modern panels or modern keys !
a system with +2 tracking challenge can make different situation on samsim !
we had many chance to choose complex system ! they arent boring at all
like GAINFUL or HAWK .. they are so so complexity system as you know
back to the sa-2 edge ! like AJAX or hercules ...
after hawk and gainfull
or s-300 pmu or MIM-104 standard VS SADDAM missiles
Hpasp: but you compare incomparable - Osa with Patriot. If you compare S-300 to it, there is not so huge difference (if I am correct the original S-300 had a 10Mhz CPU or something like it). And it had six target and twelve missile channels (18 altogether)....
Hpasp: but you compare incomparable - Osa with Patriot. If you compare S-300 to it, there is not so huge difference (if I am correct the original S-300 had a 10Mhz CPU or something like it). And it had six target and twelve missile channels (18 altogether)....
S-300 is not in SAMSIM, the most modern simulated system is the OSA.
I just wanted to say, that the computer you are reading this forum is at least few ~100x more powerful (anybody remembering the green/black mono-color Hercules Monitor ? ) than Patriot.
Last edited by Hpasp; 04/04/1502:30 PM.
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
By the way, more "shocking" is AGC (Apollo Guidance Computer) which took people to Moon. It was programmable and consisted of a few thousand of NAND and NOR gates. There is an emulator on the web, so everybody can test it
modern sam ... its not all about fast internal computer ! its about multi channel challenge ! if hecules or ajax had multi channel tracking ! so why not!!! we can love them too much because they have something that SA-2 and 3 doesnt had this
as i remember from 2011 till now im saying sa-6 please
only reason for sa-6 that i loved it .. is armed to two Simple multi channel ! of course i dont know any thing about numebr of HAWK channels
Just to illustrate how boring a Patriot sim would be...
(quick an dirty Visual Basic screen)
1, Semi Auto Engagement Mode - the radar station is searching, acquiring, and tracking targets automatically, you can only turn it on or off. - with the joystick select a target icon, click on it and all flight parameters are displayed. - pushing the ENG button just puts the target into the TBEQ (Target to Be Engaged Queue) - system will decide on what missile type, from witch launcher,and when should be launched, you have no possibility to influence the selection
2, Auto Engagement Mode - the radar station is searching, acquiring, and tracking targets automatically, you can only turn it on or off. - when hostile target is detected, the system puts it into the TBEQ (Target to Be Engaged Queue) - system will decide on missile type, launcher, and when should be launched
Last edited by Hpasp; 04/05/1501:17 PM.
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
[quote=Hpasp]Just to illustrate how boring a Patriot sim would be...
(quick an dirty Visual Basic screen)
i can tell u its not boring at all and i tell u the reasons dear hpasp
1. let me compare it with VEGA ! as we know.. vega is the most complex system till we seen but even with 250km range of killing we had limited engagement zone there was so many switches in vega... that user can play with it so long without any boring stuation ! but this system have too low maneuverability in battle !
2. as i saw and understood your infos about patriot YES.! work with patriot is too easy and hafter hours it could be boring ! but patriot can share you the biggest engagement zone and maneuverablity to start a bigest challenge with each targets in radar !!!!!
3. if you add patriot with old non-historical scenarios till we had yes.. i can assume that could be real boring ! but if you transfer us.. too the patriot edge !! i reapet .. PATRIOT EDGE i can tell you it will never boring us
4.and last logical reason to simulation patriot is New Experience in samsim world ... users can see what is the biggest differences between old soviet system and new generation of air defense
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
I think modelling the Patriot system from a performance point of view would be difficult, as the radar and missiles are still classified.
*********I have quite a large collection of Flight, Weapon Systems, Tactical & Supplementary Aircraft Manuals for Jets, Helicopters & some Props, spanning the Vietnam era to present. If you're interested in trading Flight Manuals, mainly for modern military aircraft, send me a PM.*********
If we say, that the PAC3 unit defending Riyadh was at the King Abdul Aziz AFB...
...and use the destruction zone of the PAC3 depicted in 2003
than it seems that the Riyadh International was well away (~15km) from the destruction zone of the PAC3
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.) http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
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