Look at other games and you'll see that's now the pattern. With the exception of a few like MMOs or the big Call of Duty-types that hold their prices for a year or more, most games are on sale within 1 quarter of release, making it important to get the game out around Oct/Nov for the holiday season. Release it in the summer and the price will drop before then.
Permanent price drops (as opposed to sales) tend to occur in around 2 quarters.
The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
Look at other games and you'll see that's now the pattern. With the exception of a few like MMOs or the big Call of Duty-types that hold their prices for a year or more, most games are on sale within 1 quarter of release, making it important to get the game out around Oct/Nov for the holiday season. Release it in the summer and the price will drop before then.
Permanent price drops (as opposed to sales) tend to occur in around 2 quarters.
The Jedi Master
Ahhh. I see. Goes to show you how many games I've purchased in the last few years.
Wow didnt take long for the fire sale to start. Shows it is worth not being an 'early adopter'. Come late to the sim party, get RoF free, DCS kites for 20 bucks, BoS for half price, CoD for ten bucks...we are idiots paying full price on release.
H
There is no doubt that significant saving can be had by waiting, BUT if everyone did, it would soon mean the end of the genre. Win the battle, lose the war. Luckily most of us can't wait to get our hands on Alpha/Betas, and will pay a significant price for the opportunity, then love to complain endlessly about it being an Alpha/Beta.
Personally I look at it as an investment in the future, fully understanding there are no guarantees. There is no possible way that these small development crews can stay in business long enough to fully release todays highly complex combat flight sims . Even high early adopter prices are insignificant compared to the man hours of entertainment value, if the sim survives the early WIP versions.
Intel core I7 4790K @ 4.4 Asus Maximus Hero VII Motherboard 16 gigs DDR3 2133 EVGA GTX980Ti Oculus Rift LG 37" LCD BLack Mamba III Joystick Cougar Throttle/X55 Throttle/Saitek Levers Saitek Pro Rudder pedals Voice Activation Controls
^^^ as for many others in the genre... let the "eager" throw their cash at the screen and (for the more discerning, of which the number is growing) take it from there as far as feedback goes.
As with anything "good", the idiots manage to make their way to the helm, and it goes to pot from there
“Hypocrisy in anything whatever may deceive the cleverest and most penetrating man, but the least wide-awake of children recognizes it, and is revolted by it, however ingeniously it may be disguised.”
Leo Tolstoy, Anna Karenina
#4087951 - 03/05/1501:12 PMRe: IL2 Battle of Stalingrad 50% off
[Re: Speyer]
Personally I look at it as an investment in the future, fully understanding there are no guarantees. There is no possible way that these small development crews can stay in business long enough to fully release todays highly complex combat flight sims . Even high early adopter prices are insignificant compared to the man hours of entertainment value, if the sim survives the early WIP versions.
Can someone explain to me why or how a flight sim is more complex than other genres? I mean compared to Arma, or Graviteam, or Total War, and other games that model details of thousands of "moving parts" things in a large area.
I always wondered why people think they are more complex than other games. Maybe I am just ignorant to how? I look at other games, including War Thunder, and think if they wanted to they could go that direction, yet they seem to pop content out like a Nike factory.
I don't think the game is more complex to make, although it may be more complex to play.
What is being simulated in the game is more complex than just a soldier with a gun, though.
People talk about problems with a flight model being wrong, but that's just one part of it. Whether a sim, an RPG, an RTS, an FPS...all have issues with MP (if they have it). All have AI issues. All have blatantly obvious ones you can't believe made it thru testing (I fell through solid STAIRS to my death, right off the bottom of the map? Really??)
Sims have more complex research requirements, and possibly more time spent testing that the various systems perform properly in both normal and abnormal conditions, but I can't imagine that the actual coding of the game is any more demanding.
The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
Jason_Williams, on 02 Mar 2015 - 18:23, said: When Steam offers us a chance to run a sale we take it (Steam sales are very powerful) and when we do that, it is only fair to offer the same deal on our website. That's it, no conspiracy.
Jason
Originally Posted By: HeinKill
Wow didnt take long for the fire sale to start. Shows it is worth not being an 'early adopter'. Come late to the sim party, get RoF free, DCS kites for 20 bucks, BoS for half price, CoD for ten bucks...we are idiots paying full price on release. H
I guess that all depends on what you want and when you want it..
Originally Posted By: lokitexas
Originally Posted By: Chivas
Personally I look at it as an investment in the future, fully understanding there are no guarantees. There is no possible way that these small development crews can stay in business long enough to fully release todays highly complex combat flight sims . Even high early adopter prices are insignificant compared to the man hours of entertainment value, if the sim survives the early WIP versions.
Can someone explain to me why or how a flight sim is more complex than other genres? I mean compared to Arma, or Graviteam, or Total War, and other games that model details of thousands of "moving parts" things in a large area.
I always wondered why people think they are more complex than other games. Maybe I am just ignorant to how? I look at other games, including War Thunder, and think if they wanted to they could go that direction, yet they seem to pop content out like a Nike factory.
More variables to compute.. Much more going on over a much wider area.. and it all needs to be programed..
Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
Personally I look at it as an investment in the future, fully understanding there are no guarantees. There is no possible way that these small development crews can stay in business long enough to fully release todays highly complex combat flight sims . Even high early adopter prices are insignificant compared to the man hours of entertainment value, if the sim survives the early WIP versions.
Can someone explain to me why or how a flight sim is more complex than other genres? I mean compared to Arma, or Graviteam, or Total War, and other games that model details of thousands of "moving parts" things in a large area.
I always wondered why people think they are more complex than other games. Maybe I am just ignorant to how? I look at other games, including War Thunder, and think if they wanted to they could go that direction, yet they seem to pop content out like a Nike factory.
I wasn't comparing other genres, with usually much larger development crews. I was comparing the complexity of todays combat flight sims to yesterdays. Everything is more complex, the FM, DM, Frame, Engine, Cockpit, Terrain, Game engine, etc etc etc, while the development crews are still just as small. There are no publishers willing to invest in the years it takes for these small development crews to fully complete a niche market sim with small profit margins. As far as I'm concerned, combat flight sim fans that pat themselves on the back for buying a sim for ten dollars, that took years of blood sweat, and tears to produce are doing their genre a disservice.
It would be different if the sim were designed to be a one of, with no improvements, but that's not the case yet. The plan still appears to be a series of theaters where most improvements made in the next theater will be applied to the initial theater. The initial price is an investment in the future of our genre, but there are no guarantees.
Killing this sim to teach the genre a lesson, is like bighting off our noses to spite our face, as its highly unlikely there are any publishers waiting in the wings in a market with little prospect of a large enough profit. The only thing that might make combat flight sims popular again is VR, even then it will be many years before this possible new influx of fans will be interested in complex flight sims. Never mind the high-end systems, and high-end VR units, required to run them.
Intel core I7 4790K @ 4.4 Asus Maximus Hero VII Motherboard 16 gigs DDR3 2133 EVGA GTX980Ti Oculus Rift LG 37" LCD BLack Mamba III Joystick Cougar Throttle/X55 Throttle/Saitek Levers Saitek Pro Rudder pedals Voice Activation Controls
#4088318 - 03/06/1502:00 AMRe: IL2 Battle of Stalingrad 50% off
[Re: Chivas]
I wasn't comparing other genres, with usually much larger development crews. I was comparing the complexity of todays combat flight sims to yesterdays. Everything is more complex, the FM, DM, Frame, Engine, Cockpit, Terrain, Game engine, etc etc etc, while the development crews are still just as small. There are no publishers willing to invest in the years it takes for these small development crews to fully complete a niche market sim with small profit margins. As far as I'm concerned, combat flight sim fans that pat themselves on the back for buying a sim for ten dollars, that took years of blood sweat, and tears to produce are doing their genre a disservice.
It would be different if the sim were designed to be a one of, with no improvements, but that's not the case yet. The plan still appears to be a series of theaters where most improvements made in the next theater will be applied to the initial theater. The initial price is an investment in the future of our genre, but there are no guarantees.
Killing this sim to teach the genre a lesson, is like bighting off our noses to spite our face, as its highly unlikely there are any publishers waiting in the wings in a market with little prospect of a large enough profit. The only thing that might make combat flight sims popular again is VR, even then it will be many years before this possible new influx of fans will be interested in complex flight sims. Never mind the high-end systems, and high-end VR units, required to run them.
Yeah, but thats like saying a car in 1940 was easier to make than the cars of today. Simply not true when you consider technology and tools from 45' to today. Its pretty relative.
Killing this sim? Id have to say nobody is in charge of the life or death of this sim aside from the people that made it. Same as in just about every other business. Make a great product it sells itself. Making a crappy one, people will realize it and not buy. For me personally, I wish these devs would have either stayed as close to IL2 as they could, or gone off to make a War Thunder with CEM and called it a day.
If BoS is the new "standard" for new flight sims, it might as well be dead to me. I would rather get my thrills from older titles, or play other genres that I enjoy, than throw money at something I dont like in hopes it might someday, maybe, possibly, turn into a game I like. No thanks.
#4088383 - 03/06/1508:12 AMRe: IL2 Battle of Stalingrad 50% off
[Re: Chivas]
Killing this sim to teach the genre a lesson, is like bighting off our noses to spite our face, as its highly unlikely there are any publishers waiting in the wings in a market with little prospect of a large enough profit. The only thing that might make combat flight sims popular again is VR, even then it will be many years before this possible new influx of fans will be interested in complex flight sims. Never mind the high-end systems, and high-end VR units, required to run them.
Killing this sim? that's a bit dramatic isn't it? I pre-ordered BoS as soon as it was available to pre-order based on what we were told was planned for this game and the developers fell well short in my opinion so why would I recommend it? Its not about teaching the genre a lesson as you put it, its simply not buying a product from a vendor with whom I have lost trust in. In my opinion they misled me over the product I was getting and fell short in terms of features and quality. It doesn't matter if its a flight sim developer, restaurant or car manufacturer, if you do not supply the good then don't expect my custom a second time. The software industry has changed, developers no longer need to go cap in hand to a publisher in the hope they can get a deal, there are a number of self publishing and capital raising solutions out there. DCS has created a whole new cottage industry of sim development teams who may go on to develop their own sim one day off the back of their knowledge working in DCS like many of our current developers who cut their teeth modding and creating add-ons for existing products.
More variables to compute.. Much more going on over a much wider area.. and it all needs to be programed..
Hold your horses Bearcat, that is entirely false. A software complexity, game in this case, can be broken into segments (by complexity i do not mean the algorithm itself but the whole that makes a single segment one of the top notch in the market for fidelity, performance and flexibility). Having a complex flight dynamic does not make others segments more or less complex. At the moment it seems that the only thing that might be complex is the flight dynamic, any others are not even close to the top notch out there. There are others game out there that offers a bigger amount of objects in real time and most completely dynamic. As a programmer all i see is that today most gaming software house focus only on one segment almost ignoring others segments by offering the lowest standard for the era. In the case of flight sims most of them are purely focusing on flight dynamics, leaving aside others important segments like rendering engine to provide bigger amount of objects or more important a well simulated war environment (dynamic campaign and actors behavior/teamwork). Some are trying to repair it but we don't know at which degree and how their software is tight (eg. if done very well, we could change completely a segment without affecting others, otherwise it is not possible without having to do everything from scratch).
I know that you are one of the most active BOS defenders but c'mon calling this more complex of others games just because this have a pseudo realistic flight dynamic (not criticizing here but just leaving the judgement to anyone) is just another lame excuse. In fact taken out flight dynamic i find this game very very poor, it does not offer nothing that others had offered a long long time ago.
By the way, the size of the area does not make the game more complex, otherwise minecraft would be the most complex ever existed, which is not even from far far away.
More variables to compute.. Much more going on over a much wider area.. and it all needs to be programed..
Hold your horses Bearcat, that is entirely false. A software complexity, game in this case, can be broken into segments (by complexity i do not mean the algorithm itself but the whole that makes a single segment one of the top notch in the market for fidelity, performance and flexibility). Having a complex flight dynamic does not make others segments more or less complex. At the moment it seems that the only thing that might be complex is the flight dynamic, any others are not even close to the top notch out there. There are others game out there that offers a bigger amount of objects in real time and most completely dynamic. As a programmer all i see is that today most gaming software house focus only on one segment almost ignoring others segments by offering the lowest standard for the era. In the case of flight sims most of them are purely focusing on flight dynamics, leaving aside others important segments like rendering engine to provide bigger amount of objects or more important a well simulated war environment (dynamic campaign and actors behavior/teamwork). Some are trying to repair it but we don't know at which degree and how their software is tight (eg. if done very well, we could change completely a segment without affecting others, otherwise it is not possible without having to do everything from scratch).
I know that you are one of the most active BOS defenders but c'mon calling this more complex of others games just because this have a pseudo realistic flight dynamic (not criticizing here but just leaving the judgement to anyone) is just another lame excuse. In fact taken out flight dynamic i find this game very very poor, it does not offer nothing that others had offered a long long time ago.
By the way, the size of the area does not make the game more complex, otherwise minecraft would be the most complex ever existed, which is not even from far far away.
Me, not being a programmer, thought this way as well. That's why I keep asking how/why some people see a sim (any sim) more "complex" than other games. I just don't see it.
... By the way, the size of the area does not make the game more complex, otherwise minecraft Elite II, Frontier or Elite Dangerous would be the most complex ever existed, which is not even from far far away...
"It takes forever +/- 2 weeks for the A-10 to get anywhere significant..." Ice
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Well certainly the stock game, with the stock campaign, is pretty much lifeless - just not that much going on. With the release of the FME, and the third party Simple Mission Builder, hopefully there will be some much better SP content available to see how it handles a much more active battle scenario.
... By the way, the size of the area does not make the game more complex, otherwise minecraft Elite II, Frontier or Elite Dangerous would be the most complex ever existed, which is not even from far far away...
:P Sorry couldn't help it. Carry on.
XD you are taking into consideration more 'serious' games. I was taking as example a very very simplified game just to emphasizes that km squared does not make a game more complex.
