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#4085756 - 03/01/15 11:27 AM Did this really happen during WW II in the European Theater?  
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This scene from Band of Brothers showing a nearly unending line of American armor and trucks and other war equipment going one way down the Autobahn heading into Germany;

while surrendered Nazi soldiers and officers march down the middle of it going in the opposite direction toward the rear of the American lines.

Is it something they put in the show to do some chest pounding or it really did happen this way?

If it's true that would had been a sight to see all that equipment going for miles and miles.

Amazing how much materiel the U.S.A. was able to produce during World War II to sustain a war on 2 major theater.




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#4085759 - 03/01/15 11:50 AM Re: Did this really happen during WW II in the European Theater? [Re: CG2015]  
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#4085760 - 03/01/15 11:52 AM Re: Did this really happen during WW II in the European Theater? [Re: CG2015]  
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It would appear that it is based in fact, and I'm sure at some point there may have been that much armour and trucks heading down the autobahn at one moment.

From this site:

http://www.detroits-great-rebellion.com/Interstates.html

Edit: Redtoo beat me to it. I was messing around trying not to download pics and not hotlinking.

Last edited by Tigerwulf; 03/01/15 12:58 PM.
#4085761 - 03/01/15 12:02 PM Re: Did this really happen during WW II in the European Theater? [Re: CG2015]  
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Happened but is an over exaggeration in the movie.


There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB.
The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed.
There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
#4085769 - 03/01/15 12:53 PM Re: Did this really happen during WW II in the European Theater? [Re: CG2015]  
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Thank you, fellow SimHQ minions.

#4085772 - 03/01/15 01:03 PM Re: Did this really happen during WW II in the European Theater? [Re: CG2015]  
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The movie Band of Brothers also wrongly asserts that the 101st Airborne Division reached Berchtesgaden first.

It was in fact The 7th Infantry Regiment.

http://www.historynet.com/world-war-ii-race-to-seize-berchtesgaden.htm

Last edited by Parker; 03/01/15 01:04 PM.
#4085877 - 03/01/15 05:03 PM Re: Did this really happen during WW II in the European Theater? [Re: CG2015]  
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The industrial output of the United States was staggering in WW2. Production efficiency and innovation were amazing.


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#4086033 - 03/01/15 10:36 PM Re: Did this really happen during WW II in the European Theater? [Re: CG2015]  
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It really helps not to have to worry about your factories & the cities where the workers live being bombed.


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#4086062 - 03/01/15 11:11 PM Re: Did this really happen during WW II in the European Theater? [Re: CG2015]  
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What the Soviets did was just as impressive with moving almost their entire war manufacturing capability from western Russia to the Urals and this was done while the German Army was advancing relentlessly.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4086072 - 03/01/15 11:21 PM Re: Did this really happen during WW II in the European Theater? [Re: CG2015]  
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Declaring war on the United States was one of Hitler's bigger mistakes among his many. Although, the U.S. would probably have joined in on the European war eventually.

Last edited by Pooch; 03/01/15 11:21 PM.

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#4086085 - 03/02/15 12:11 AM Re: Did this really happen during WW II in the European Theater? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
What the Soviets did was just as impressive with moving almost their entire war manufacturing capability from western Russia to the Urals and this was done while the German Army was advancing relentlessly.


Germany's dispersal of production facilities to small "cottage industries" to help mitigate the effects of Allied strategic bombing was even more impressive, IMO.


Phil

“The biggest problem people have is they don’t think they’re supposed to have problems.” - Hayes Barnard
#4086091 - 03/02/15 12:33 AM Re: Did this really happen during WW II in the European Theater? [Re: Pooch]  
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Originally Posted By: Pooch
Declaring war on the United States was one of Hitler's bigger mistakes among his many. Although, the U.S. would probably have joined in on the European war eventually.
It was a classic case of underestimating your enemy. Hitler considered US soldiers to be on the same level as the Italians. In other words, very crappy.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 03/02/15 12:34 AM.

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#4086097 - 03/02/15 12:43 AM Re: Did this really happen during WW II in the European Theater? [Re: Pooch]  
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Originally Posted By: Pooch
Declaring war on the United States was one of Hitler's bigger mistakes among his many. Although, the U.S. would probably have joined in on the European war eventually.



Agreed a formal declaration of war by Hitler was a dumb move,
But the states was already supporting the British with ships and supply's
Lucky for us Europeans,
I really don't think the British and soviets could have defeated the third Reich it really was a joint effort.
With out the Americans entering the war and especially its air force not taking anything away from the ground war
But the air force delivered a blow that the Germans could not recover from,
They knocked out a large part Germanys war industry but at a high cost to the bomber crews

Wasn't there a sizeable anti-war movement in the states before the USA entered WW2.
I forget the guys name but its leader ran for president and didn't lose by much
Could you imagine if he had won.





Last edited by marko1231123; 03/02/15 12:56 AM.
#4086099 - 03/02/15 12:46 AM Re: Did this really happen during WW II in the European Theater? [Re: CG2015]  
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@marko - Isolationism was indeed very strong in the US during the 1930's and that was mostly due to fact that domestic economic policies were the dominant concern.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4086102 - 03/02/15 01:00 AM Re: Did this really happen during WW II in the European Theater? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted By: Pooch
Declaring war on the United States was one of Hitler's bigger mistakes among his many. Although, the U.S. would probably have joined in on the European war eventually.
It was a classic case of underestimating your enemy. Hitler considered US soldiers to be on the same level as the Italians. In other words, very crappy.


Well, we were very green at the begining of the war. Six months before Midway miracle was brutal, 8th Bomber fleet suffered heavy casaulties and our convoys in the Atlantic were decimated by the large U-Boat fleet. We just had the industry to ressupply the loss and the forsight to bring back veterans to train the new guys.

#4086103 - 03/02/15 01:08 AM Re: Did this really happen during WW II in the European Theater? [Re: CG2015]  
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1939:
Allied and Neutral ship tonnage sunk by German and Italian submarines (#ships, GRT)
Sep39 48/178,621
Oct39 33/156,156
Nov39 27/72,721
Dec39 39/101,823
Total '39 147 (36.75/month)/509,321 (127,330.25/month)
British merchant ship construction capacity from 1939-1941 did not exceed 1.2 million GRT per year.
US merchant ship construction in 1939 was 0.242 million GRT.

Number of U-Boat patrols (combat patrols only, does not include tanker/resupply missions)/losses/aborts prior to contact in principle theaters (North Atlantic, South Atlantic, Indian Ocean, and the Americas)
Aug39 19/2
Sep39 3/0
Oct39 13/3
Nov39 10/1/1
Dec39 5/1/1
Total '39 50/7/2 (an average of 10 patrols per month and 14% lost)

Thus for 1939, an average of 2.94 ships were sunk per patrol and one U-Boat was lost per 21 ships sunk (note that throughout these averages will be slightly inflated since they do not include the minor contribution of the Italian submarine fleet.)

1940:
Allied and Neutral ship tonnage sunk by German and Italian submarines (#ships, GRT)
Jan40 53/163,029
Feb40 50/182,369
Mar40 26/69,826
Apr40 6/30,927
May40 14/61,635
Jun40 66/375,069
Jul40 41/301,975
Aug40 56/288,180
Sep40 60/288,180
Oct40 66/363,267
Nov40 36/181,695
Dec40 46/256,310
Total '40 520 (43.33/month)/2,462,867 (205,238.91/month)
US merchant ship construction for 1940 was about 0.5 million GRT.

Number of U-Boat patrols (combat patrols only, does not include tanker/resupply missions)/losses/aborts prior to contact in principle theaters (North Atlantic, South Atlantic, Indian Ocean, and the Americas)
Jan40 8/2
Feb40 10/3
Mar40 10/2
Apr40 19/3
May40 8/0/2
Jun40 18/3/1
Jul40 4/0
Aug40 16/2/1
Sep40 12/0
Oct40 13/2
Nov40 14/1
Dec40 6/0
Total '40 138/18/3 (an average of 11.5 patrols per month and 13% lost)

Thus for 1940, an average of 3.77 ships were sunk per patrol and one U-Boat was lost per 28.89 ships sunk.

1941:
Allied and Neutral ship tonnage sunk by German and Italian submarines (#ships, GRT)
Jan41 23/129,711
Feb41 47/254,118
Mar41 41/236,549
Apr41 41/239,719
May41 63/362,268
Jun41 66/325,817
Jul41 26/112,624
Aug41 27/85,603
Sep41 57/212,237
Oct41 28/170,786
Nov41 15/76,056
Dec41 23/93,226
Total '41 457 (38.08/month)/2,298,714 (191,559.5/month)
US merchant ship construction 1941 0.804 million GRT

Number of U-Boat patrols (combat patrols only, does not include tanker/resupply missions)/losses/aborts prior to contact in principle theaters (North Atlantic, South Atlantic, Indian Ocean, and the Americas)
Jan41 10/0
Feb41 18/3/2
Mar41 15/3/3
Apr41 14/2/2
May41 21/0/2
Jun41 22/2/3
Jul41 24/1/9
Aug41 42/5/9
Sep41 38/0/2
Oct41 37/0/6
Nov 41 27/5/5
Dec41 49/4/6
Total '41 287/25/49 (an average of 23.9 patrols sailing per month and 8.7% lost)

Thus for 1941, an average of 1.59 ships were sunk per patrol and one U-Boat was lost per 18.28 ships sunk.

1942:
Allied and Neutral ship tonnage sunk by German and Italian submarines (#ships, GRT)
Jan42 56/310,224
Feb42 72/429,255
Mar42 93/507,514
Apr42 81/418,161
May42 129/616,835
Jun42 136/636,926
Jul42 96/467,051
Aug42 117/587,245
Sep42 96/461,794
Oct42 89/583,690
Nov42 126/802,160
Dec42 64/337,618
Total '42 1,155 (96.25/month)/6,158,473 (513,206.08/month)
British and Canadian merchant ship construction 1942 1.8 million GRT
US merchant ship construction 1942 5.433 million GRT

Number of U-Boat patrols (combat patrols only, does not include tanker/resupply missions)/losses/aborts prior to contact in principle theaters (North Atlantic, South Atlantic, Indian Ocean, and the Americas)
Jan42 50/2/5
Feb42 29/3/2
Mar42 32/2
Apr42 37/2/2
May42 23/3
Jun42 39/9/5
Jul42 45/7/3
Aug42 58/10/4
Sep42 52/8/8
Oct42 62/6/10
Nov42 54/8/6
Dec42 59/8/7
Total '42 540/68/57 (an average of 45 patrols sailing per month and 12.6% lost)

Thus for 1942, an average of 2.14 ships were sunk per patrol and one U-Boat was lost per 16.99 ships sunk.

1943:
Allied and Neutral ship tonnage sunk by German and Italian submarines (#ships, GRT)
Jan43 44/307,196
Feb43 67/362,081
Mar43 110/633,731
Apr43 50/287,137
May43 46/237,182
Jun43 17/76,090
Jul43 46/237,777
Aug43 20/92,443
Sep43 16/98,852
Oct43 20/91,295
Nov43 9/30,726
Dec43 8/55,794
Total '43 452 (37.67/month)/2,510,304 (209,192/month)
US merchant ship construction 1943 13.081 million GRT

Number of U-Boat patrols (combat patrols only, does not include tanker/resupply missions)/losses/aborts prior to contact in principle theaters (North Atlantic, South Atlantic, Indian Ocean, and the Americas)
Jan43 61/13/11
Feb43 72/8/9
Mar43 59/16/10
Apr43 95/35/18
May43 55/23/9
Jun43 46/23/9
Jul43 39/27/7 (49 total patrols of all types)
Aug43 33/12/6
Sep43 32/11/10
Oct43 62/23/9
Nov43 36/9/4
Dec43 31/10/2
Total '43 621/210/104 (an average of 51.75 patrols sailing per month and 33.8% lost)

Thus for 1943, an average of 0.73 ships were sunk per patrol and one U-Boat was lost per 2.15 ships sunk.

So, overall, the most successful year for the U-Boats was 1940, before the expansion of the force allowed for an increase of more than about a dozen patrols sailing per month, and well prior to the entry of the US and its shipbuilding capacity into the war. Worse, the performance of the U-Boat force in 1941 and 1942 never exceeded its performance in the first months of the war. And, after 1943 the U-Boat campaign became ever less relevent to the outcome of the war.

Allied and Neutral ship tonnage sunk by German and Italian submarines (#ships, GRT)
Total '44 125/663,308
Total '45 63/284,476

US merchant ship construction for 1944 was 12.257 million GRT
US merchant ship construction for 1945 (through 1 May) was 3.548 million GRT

U-Boat Fleet to 1Sep42
On 19Aug39 there were 57 U-Boats in commission, 20 sea-going U-Boats and 18 ducks were fully ready to put to sea
Total number U-Boats deployed to 1Sep42 275
Total number lost 94
Total number retired 10
Total number available 171

U-Boat Fleet 1Sep42 to 1May45
Total number deployed 1Sep42 to 1May45 531
Total number lost 1Sep42 to 1May45 568

British controlled merchant shipping over 1,600 GRT (number/in thousands of gross tons)
3Sep39 2,999/17,784
30Sep40 3,75721,373
30Sep41 3,608/20,552
31Dec41 3,616/20,693

Thus, despite the success of the U-Boat force in 1940 (relative to its performance in 1941 and 1942) it had no appreciable effect in reducing the size of the British merchant fleet.

Numbers of ships arriving and losses in North Atlantic convoys inbound to Britain (ships arriving/losses)
1939 700/5 (7.1%)
1940 5,434/133 ((2.5%)
1941 5,923/153 (2.6%)
1942 4,798/80 (1.7%)
1943 5,667/87 (1.5%)
1944 7,410/8 (0.1%)

The operational U-Boat force from 1943-1945 never approached a "steady 400-500 boat[s]." Rather, during 1942 the peak strength of boats assigned to combat flotillas (including those under repair for combat-damage and breakdowns, but excluding those assigned to school flotillas, experimental projects, or otherwise retired from combat) was 202, during November. The low in 1942 was 89 in January. The average monthly strength during 1942 was 143.83. The strength of the force peaked in May 1943 at 237. It had declined to a low of 159 by November. Average monthly strength during 1943 was 197.58. The peak strength during 1944 was 168 in February, the low was 146 in November. Average monthly strength in 1944 was 157.83. The peak strength in 1945 was April with 165, the low was May with 134, prior to the surrender. <http://www.onwar.com/ubb/smile.gif>

At that, these were much better than 1939 (average of 19.5 monthly), 1940 (average of 18.75 monthly) and 1941 (average of 47.5 monthly). OTOH, the 'bang for their buck' was probably highest in 1940, which was also arguably the U-Boats most 'successful' year in terms of ships sunk per patrol and U-Boats lost per ship sunk.


There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB.
The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed.
There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
#4086104 - 03/02/15 01:17 AM Re: Did this really happen during WW II in the European Theater? [Re: CG2015]  
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Capturing and then decoding the enigma machine/orders was one of the many turning points of the war.
Again it came at a cost, many convoys were left to perish so not to alert the German high command the allies cracked there code.

#4086119 - 03/02/15 02:01 AM Re: Did this really happen during WW II in the European Theater? [Re: CG2015]  
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#4086124 - 03/02/15 02:20 AM Re: Did this really happen during WW II in the European Theater? [Re: marko1231123]  
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Originally Posted By: marko1231123
Capturing and then decoding the enigma machine/orders was one of the many turning points of the war.
Again it came at a cost, many convoys were left to perish so not to alert the German high command the allies cracked there code.


Go catch the movie The Imitation Game. It's about Alan Turing and his machine.


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#4086126 - 03/02/15 02:27 AM Re: Did this really happen during WW II in the European Theater? [Re: marko1231123]  
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Originally Posted By: marko1231123
Again it came at a cost, many convoys were left to perish so not to alert the German high command the allies cracked there code.


Can you give some examples of this?


There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB.
The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed.
There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
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