Welcome to SimHQ, Belmont!

I think you'll find things work a bit different here.

Loft use a car market analogy to explain:

Instead fix BWM-2013 issues, relaunch then in 2015 with some bells and whistles.

I Don't play WT anymore since CLOD was fixed , but I still say the highest difficulty mode in WT is The same Fm and Dm as Il2 1946, Most of the plans have the exact same FM and DM because they were purchased from Il2.
While 1946 is not CLOD at this point I can't consider Il2 1946 FM's as arcade.

The Problem I had with WT was that the Sensitivity settings change the FM,, if you dont have your sensitivity cranked to max, the planes won't act the way the full Fm dictates they should. They won't turn as tight and stall or spin like they should. On the flip side of that, they can't accomplish what a particular aircraft could do in Il2 1946.
That problem was never explained even though I pointed it out in alpha testing.

Now, Back to the topic at hand, I guess it really depends on the FMB for BOS and when it is released and what can be done with it.
If I can start to get User created SP content from that, then I will get BOM for sure !

I would hope that they would at the very least start releasing some more information about the release of the FMB before the BOM gets here.
Maybe even a little video of it creating some missions ?
That would help continue to sway me into a position of spending more money with them.

Regardless,, BOM is their Last Shot with this consumer, but I am Overjoyed about the unlocks being pretty much gone for me.
Now BOS is actually worth my playing on my couple hours of free time each week.
I do like the new plan set for BOM


Desode

Wow!

What part of sole source is so difficult to comprehend?

That statement is absolutely true.

If SHQ is your sole source of information on BoS you are under informed.

H@ll...

If the BoS forums are your sole source of information on BoS you will be under informed... though not as much because the flaws of BoS are discussed there as well..
They just aren't beaten to death while ignoring it's many good points.

That is the nature of the beast. I am not saying what is good or bad info, as far as the source goes.. That is for the reader to decide. I never "condemned" SHQ .. all I said was if it is your sole source of information on BoS you are underinformed.. and that is the truth. You can agree or not agree.. that is your choice, but anyone who gets information on just abouit anything from a single source.. is not getting all the information that is available.. That is all I am saying and I am entitled to that opinion and I think that is pretty accurate..

I never said don't believe what you read here.. or any such thing.. That is a choice the reader will have to make based on his own experience with the sim and interpreting what he reads accordingly.

Bearcat,

When you called SimHQ "our sanctuary" what did you mean? Sanctuary from what?

There was a time not so long ago I might have agreed with you, but not any longer.
First, SimHQ is a great place for any information on any flight sim, and one has the luxury of knowing they can read both all the good, and all the bad, that folks experience with those sims, without fear of reprisal,deleted/hidden threads, bans...

The BOS forums are not friendly to any views other than mostly positive. That was pretty much locked down after the original Metacritic debacle and Loft threatened to shut down the sim if that was how it was going to be.

I have just seen too much going on, and that has gone on for the last several weeks. Not pointing to you individually, as I don't know who all is responsible for some of that stuff I am seeing, to include threads that were apparently written with invisible ink.
I can tell you the moderation, as much as you might want to think is much better and very fair, is very much one sided. Just depends on who the posters are and how close they are to the sim and development of it.

But it is 1CGS's house, and they can run it as they see fit. That is their right.

However the best types of forums to get a fair and balanced view of any flight sim, would be one like SimHQ, where users can voice their concerns along with their positives without fear.
That is because both sides and all in between, are allowed to be heard as long as they remain civil. I put a whole lot more stock in the opinions of flight sims I read here at SimHQ, than I would ever read on the official BOS forum. I have just seen too much there...

There is a reason BOS carries so much negativity in responses here at SimHQ, and it ain't the site itself that is the cause.
If I want to get a true and unbiased opinion on any flight sim, I will come to SimHQ first.

Sure you can tell this... but it doesn't make it true...
When I actively moderated the BoS forum, I had edited and locked posts from both sides, banned peoples from both sides and been insulted by PM by peoples from both sides.... this included being accused to "favor the BoS haters", to and such stuff...
And this was the same for the other moderators, and still is. So what you tell isn't the reflect of the truth but just a feeling. I don't know if you've been moderated in any way on the BoS forum, but if you have been, or if some of the peoples you like have been, then your feeling is just a normal human reaction. I don't know much peoples who's been moderated for breaking the forum rules having found it fair or normal, whatever "side" they belong (a very few did, and I thank them), because everybody think his own interpretation of what is allowed or not as a behavior on a forum is a good one, and so almost allways feel treated unfair when moderated.


You will get nowhere a true and unbiased opinion, such stuff don't exist. Opinions are allways opinions, and nothing more. Now you probably want to say that the plurality of opinions is greater in SimHQ than in other forums.... that's an opinion... but that's not mine.
What one feel when reading SimHQ, is mostly an hostile climate, dedicated to bash BoS, finding any pretext and any insignificant event to do so. It's not my only opinion.
You can call it "unbiased".... that's an opinion...

Now my time to be insulted...

Rama,
Who needs to insult you and why do you feel someone will?

You posted an opinion that concurs with the mod attitude at bos and are welcome to do it.

You do, however, seem to miss the positives many of those not satisfied with the game post here and what you consider bashing bos finding any pretext and any insignificant event to do so, others consider valid pretexts events not so insignificant.

You cannot deny the changing attitudes of some formerly vocal supporters on the bos forums...well you surely can do that, sorry to sound dictatorial, I forgot what forum I was on.

Actually no, in all my time on the BOS forum from day 1, I have never been moderated.




I disagree. You say when reading SimHQ it is mostly a hostile climate.
Look at all the flight sim forums on SimHQ, there are plenty that are very positive and vibrant. Now, the BOS forum on SimHQ, yes one could certainly say upon first glance there is a lot of negativity toward BOS on this particular forum.
Now considering all of this, would certainly lead one to wonder " why"...

But there are also a lot of passionate flight simmers, that want to see BOS and further developments become the true successor in the IL-2 Series and be very successful.

Well.. that is your choice.. and your opinion.. but it is not shared by all. There are some very vocal critics of BoS that post regularly on the BoS forums.. also lots of former critics.. for what that signifies. However, anyone coming here from the outside having never heard of BoS would more than likely not even consider it if they spent more than 10 minutes here and did not visit any other forum.... and that would be based on the opinions of at most.. being optimistic. ... the top 50 regular posters on this forum.. This forummeaniong the SHQ BoS forum mind you.. Again let me repeat that I am talking about this forum.. not SHQ as a whole.

That would be an underinformed view of BoS .. Note I did not say that anyone who had SHQ as their sole source of information on BoS was misinformed.. I said underinformed.. I stand by that notion. That is not to say that SHQ is not a good place to go for sim news.. but let's be honest here.. when talking about BoS.. there is very little to like about it at all if you went solely by this forum and it's most vocal posters. I also said.. BoS.. not flight sims in general...

That was what started this whole discussion.. I simply said.. basically go to the official forums as well.. don't make this your only source of information about BoS.. because if you do you will get a more limited picture.

How that can be bad advice or even considered bad advice.. is beyond me. If as some say here the BoS forums are biased.. then there is certainly nothing fair and balanced about this forum.. It may be that way in theory.. but in practice that is not the case. I can point to many threads on BoS right now that are critical of it.. and that are still open.. and no one has ever been banned solely for criticizing BoS.. it has always been the manner of criticism and usually after repeated warnings.



All one has to do is look at the threads here.. and look at the way that anything said by anyone who does not share that opinion gets gangtackled. You can also go to the BoS forum.. and you do I see you there.. I see some folks from here over there all the time.. There are just not pages of threads complaining about BoS.. partly because there is less to complain about at the moment.. and there will be less relatively in the future.. but criticism is not censored.. it is all about the manner and the type.

What developer do you know of who would allow it's forum to be used as a platform to trash the product and the developer s themselves? Much of what happens here goes beyond simple criticism.. Much of it is very ugly and very personal.. and very unnecessary. Much of it is totally different from what goes on on other SHQ forums.. but out of curiosity I visited the archived CoD forums from a few years back... Very interesting reading that... Very telling. Perhaps one day the SHQ BoS forums will be like the CoD forums are now... but right now this forum is more like the CoD board was..

Rama,

I think we all can agree that whatever opinion you have about BOS in either forum, you have the freedom to actually express yourself with a fair amount of impunity here, verses the hostile environment within the BOS forum. You see...."hostile" is also a matter of opinion. In the BOS Forum for months and months, it comes in the form of attacks on a lot of posters who have expressed some negative feedback concerning the game, and perhaps the marketing and behavior of the company team.

I also believe that there is a majority of experienced CFS enthusiast that do actually form a strong consensus that the game is lacking in a lot of areas, including yourself, from your statements here and on the BOS Forum. Among that group, there are guys that have just given up on the game altogether. But.... many of us want to see what direction this company is going to take to improve this game, because as we've made clear in numerous post right here...it does in fact have some strong points.

I could be wrong, but in viewing your statistics on the BOS site, it indicates that you have not even played the Campaign yet. Surely this is wrong? Maybe that's another Rama or resetting the unlocks erases everything?

Personally....I'd like to see less personal attacks on one another here though, and if that's how you are defining hostile....well I have to agree at times in here in can get pretty heated on a personal level. But most of it, has been carried over from what happened on the BOS forum. That's a corporate forum with a specific agenda, and it's been enforced as such.... I understand the reason...don't get me wrong, but to not acknowledge the obvious is a bit silly.

Impunity and hostile are relative.. That BoS is lacking in some areas is obvious to anyone who owns it... but it is also just not the total piece of garbage that some make it out to be.. and that was the gist of my post that sparked this portion of this discussion.. and that is all I am saying. You do not hear much if anything about the good things in BoS here.. and there are good things in it.. there always were.. Certainly not enough to satisfy everyone.. but there is good stuff in it.. but if you come here most of what you will hear about is unscrupulous developers and a really cr@ppy sim that has lockdown forums... and that ... is just not the whole picture.

I have to agree BC..that is also true. I personally believe that's because there is a lot of experience in here also BC and our expectations are such that we see the negatives in a different light in comparison to a lot of the guys left on the BOS forum now.....And let's face it..there is more negativity where it is freely allowed to be expressed....I wouldn't last 2 minutes saying some of my truths...on the BOS Forum...

But the guys can tell me to go get bent....I have to say....I also don't like mental health references....and some of the lingo that goes on here personally towards one another...I've also seen you extend the "olive branch" in some of your earlier postings...but it appears.......peace is not an option. That was a while back..though. I think we both know...none of these hostilities are going to go away, and that is the one drawback to this forum for me.

More of that stuff than the good. If I make a pros and cons list it would totally lopsided. Even if I was to take what *I* think is good and do a QM, it gets ruined by not hearing hit sounds. Its things like that, that give the impressions of a crap game. And that's when I try to find something good about it.

Don't get me started on the idiot developers. That's a whole another story.

Just because you can lower your standards to see the "good" does not mean its true for everyone. In other words, some people do believe this game is a total piece of garbage.

Also....I just thought of a very important difference between the BOS Forum and SimHQ...and that is this forum here is primarily set up for SIMULATIONS...not Games, and IL-2 BOS, by it's own marketing and design is not a simulation....and there is a difference. Here....we understand the learning curve needed for a CFS, as we've all gone through the process ourselves. Here we understand the need for flight sticks, rudder pedals, and the investments needed to complement a CFS. I mean, if you can show me a WWII pilot flying his ME-109 with a mouse...hey...that's different.....Or points to get a paint job, or staffel markings, or weapon upgrades....

If the BOS Dev's want to label us old and non technical, so be it. Does it endear them to us? I don't think so, and it's stepping away from Simulation. How can anyone...argue that point?

This is where the big boys come to share. You will not find any "groupies" here, for the most part. And the ones that have been here, have been treated with respect, and left with the only thing they could leave with....a better understanding of the game, BOS and it's overall pluses...and defects. One of them...left only to go back to the comfort of the BOS forum and insult us and this site...NO problem. When you're boxed in with no solid logic to support your views....sometimes you just lash out.

Take a look at the below linked information and see what separates SimHQ from a corporate forum, like BOS. Can anyone truly believe that BOS is less bias than a forum such as this?

SimHQ/About

I like that pledge!

Anybody seeing "IL2" in a product title would expect a sim.

That's true, but they would have been mislead, unless you read the forum and see how explicitly they make a point to call it a game. They did that when they released that pitiful single player content. Hey guys...surprise...don't expect a simulation....From the marketing aspect....I am referring to the unlock/ and lack of choices....that the Dev's have standardized to attract the gamers and that new target audience, that doesn't exist.

Sorry for sounding so negative.....ahhh, the game does have so many positives.....

My post about this....

And if you read my post...you will see how positive I was trying to be on this point....Not to shabby Rama...for trying to give the game some time and understanding. Back then we could still hope for some changes..based on our input. Now of course we know Loft and company..stayed the course...and wasted a lot of time.....and I for one...have become a bit bitter over that....

I agree with you J9.

I think the target audience should be 'old' IL2 fans, not WT mouse-aimers.