#4072241 - 02/01/15 01:28 AM
Re: A question for our German friends or serious historians...
[Re: DukeIronHand]
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,879
RAF_Louvert
BOC President; Pilot Extraordinaire; Humble Man
|
BOC President; Pilot Extraordinaire; Humble Man
Senior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,879
L'Etoile du Nord
|
. Duke, you may find this thread of interest: Flak I learned I was wrong in the course of this discussion so for me it was most useful. .
Three RFC Brass Hats were strolling down a street in London. Two walked into a bar, the third one ducked._________________________________________________________________________ Former Cold War Warrior, USAF Security Service 1974-1978, E-4, Morse Systems Intercept, England, Europe, and points above. "pippy-pahpah-pippy pah-pip-pah"
|
|
|
#4072310 - 02/01/15 08:10 AM
Re: A question for our German friends or serious historians...
[Re: DukeIronHand]
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,739
Olham
Barmy Baron from Berlin
|
Barmy Baron from Berlin
Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,739
|
Hey, Duke - Lou was faster; I would have led you to the same thread.
Here is an excerpt from German WIKIPEDIA about the development of that weapon:
"Als Hauptziel sahen militärische Taktiker zunächst weniger das gegnerische Flugzeug, sondern den Fesselballon oder das Militärluftschiff, daher setzte sich anfänglich die Bezeichnung BAK für Ballonabwehrkanone durch. Sie wurde im Mai 1916 in Flugabwehrkanone geändert."
"The military tacticians first regarded less the enemy aircraft as the main targets, but the observation balloon(s) or the military airship(s); so initially the term 'BAK' for 'Ballonabwehrkanone' won through. It was changed into "Flugabwehrkanone" in May 1916."
Vice-President of the BOC (Barmy OFFers Club) Member of the 'Albatros Aviators Club' - "We know how to die with Style!"
|
|
|
#4072329 - 02/01/15 11:18 AM
Re: A question for our German friends or serious historians...
[Re: DukeIronHand]
|
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 350
actionjoe
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 350
Nord, France.
|
And since the Americans did everything the French way what was the French term for it for our French speakers? Did they also have a slang name they used?
I have no remember for a slang used by the french for this. They called it " Batterie contre Avions", " Artillerie contre Avions", and I recently read in an Escadrille diary a "Victoire homologuée par l' AAA" (Victory confirmed by the Artillerie Anti-Aérienne).
Last edited by actionjoe; 02/01/15 11:19 AM.
|
|
|
#4072342 - 02/01/15 12:15 PM
Re: A question for our German friends or serious historians...
[Re: DukeIronHand]
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,879
RAF_Louvert
BOC President; Pilot Extraordinaire; Humble Man
|
BOC President; Pilot Extraordinaire; Humble Man
Senior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,879
L'Etoile du Nord
|
.
actionjoe, I have run across various French slang for artillery but, like the examples you've given, these tend to be for the field pieces themselves and not the actual explosions that appear in the sky around intruding aeroplanes. In most of the contemporary French readings, as well as those from shortly after the war, the term generally used by the French pilotes for the AA bursts is "obus", which reads "shell" or "shells" in English. To the slang terms I mentioned earlier they are as follows:
75mm - distribution 77mm - miaules 120mm - pétard, or pipes 150mm - gros noir 210mm - intendance, métro, or ravitaillement 280mm - Charles Humbert 305mm - train de permissionnaire 420mm - marmite
Given the above slang you might think that WWI French fliers would have referred to AA as either "distribution" or "miaules" as 75mm and 77mm were the standard German AA guns at the time, but I've never seen either term used in that context. I should add that I have seen some of these terms used in writings that mention the observer's notes on the damage seen being caused during a bombardment. Also, I believe these terms were used by the men in the trenches who identified the calibre of incoming shells by the unique sounds they made, (in addition to the amount of dirt each could kick up).
.
Three RFC Brass Hats were strolling down a street in London. Two walked into a bar, the third one ducked._________________________________________________________________________ Former Cold War Warrior, USAF Security Service 1974-1978, E-4, Morse Systems Intercept, England, Europe, and points above. "pippy-pahpah-pippy pah-pip-pah"
|
|
|
#4072369 - 02/01/15 02:19 PM
Re: A question for our German friends or serious historians...
[Re: DukeIronHand]
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,739
Olham
Barmy Baron from Berlin
|
Barmy Baron from Berlin
Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,739
|
"K Flak" seems to have been used for anti-aircraft guns mounted on vehicles. "K" stands for "Kraftwagen" (vehicle). So a K Flak unit would have been the crew for and with such a vehicle with an AA gun. Here is a link - don't blame me for the website; it just offered the explanation. Kaiserbunker-Website
Vice-President of the BOC (Barmy OFFers Club) Member of the 'Albatros Aviators Club' - "We know how to die with Style!"
|
|
|
#4072373 - 02/01/15 02:30 PM
Re: A question for our German friends or serious historians...
[Re: DukeIronHand]
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,532
DukeIronHand
Hotshot
|
Hotshot
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,532
High over the Front
|
What's wrong with the website? Unless I missed something. Everyone likes a dog! Anyway in the photo of the crew with their gun you can see the chalkboard sign that they are displaying. I think it says KFlak Batt 188"? Interesting. Thanks Olham. One could make a hobby out of the study of the various AA units for both sides and their weapons.
In reading loss reports for both sides AA was not to be taken lightly and was quite a killer.
EDIT: Hey Lou you should go to the main page. Quite a few photos of period Allied uniforms under "RFC"
Last edited by DukeIronHand; 02/01/15 02:37 PM.
|
|
|
#4072378 - 02/01/15 02:42 PM
Re: A question for our German friends or serious historians...
[Re: DukeIronHand]
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,739
Olham
Barmy Baron from Berlin
|
Barmy Baron from Berlin
Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,739
|
Maybe nothing is wrong with it - I didn't check it out; I only saw the thing we wanted to know, and posted it. I just wrote that to not be made responsible, if there should be any irritating contents.
Vice-President of the BOC (Barmy OFFers Club) Member of the 'Albatros Aviators Club' - "We know how to die with Style!"
|
|
|
#4072381 - 02/01/15 02:54 PM
Re: A question for our German friends or serious historians...
[Re: DukeIronHand]
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,879
RAF_Louvert
BOC President; Pilot Extraordinaire; Humble Man
|
BOC President; Pilot Extraordinaire; Humble Man
Senior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,879
L'Etoile du Nord
|
. Duke, I have been using the Kaiser's Bunker as a reference source for quite a few years now, but thank you for the heads-up. Nice to know you're looking out for me Sir. .
Three RFC Brass Hats were strolling down a street in London. Two walked into a bar, the third one ducked._________________________________________________________________________ Former Cold War Warrior, USAF Security Service 1974-1978, E-4, Morse Systems Intercept, England, Europe, and points above. "pippy-pahpah-pippy pah-pip-pah"
|
|
|
#4072390 - 02/01/15 03:28 PM
Re: A question for our German friends or serious historians...
[Re: DukeIronHand]
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,739
Olham
Barmy Baron from Berlin
|
Barmy Baron from Berlin
Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,739
|
Checked the site again and remembered it from my early CombatAce days. Seems it is not a German site, despite the name. And a guy who loves his Dachshund so much, cannot be a bad person really.
Vice-President of the BOC (Barmy OFFers Club) Member of the 'Albatros Aviators Club' - "We know how to die with Style!"
|
|
|
#4072399 - 02/01/15 03:47 PM
Re: A question for our German friends or serious historians...
[Re: RAF_Louvert]
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,204
DrZebra
crash-professional
|
crash-professional
Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,204
steppe
|
. Duke, you may find this thread of interest: Flak I learned I was wrong in the course of this discussion so for me it was most useful. . official language use did also know "Bak" (Ballon Abwehr Kannone) as in 1914 the air defence units often had their old designations of beeing anti-balloon troops. Richthofen used the general word "Abwehrgeschütze" in the german text, just for pointers on language..
|
|
|
#4072458 - 02/01/15 06:24 PM
Re: A question for our German friends or serious historians...
[Re: DukeIronHand]
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,739
Olham
Barmy Baron from Berlin
|
Barmy Baron from Berlin
Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,739
|
To complete the words list: when they spoke about AA puffs, they called them "Sprengwölkchen" (blast puffs).
Vice-President of the BOC (Barmy OFFers Club) Member of the 'Albatros Aviators Club' - "We know how to die with Style!"
|
|
|
#4072545 - 02/01/15 09:45 PM
Re: A question for our German friends or serious historians...
[Re: DukeIronHand]
|
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 729
Maeran
Member
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 729
UK
|
As we all know "archie" is a British slang term from the phrase "Archibald, certainly not!" - a line from a period play or song - I forget which.
A song. Archibald; Certainly Not!
|
|
|
#4072560 - 02/01/15 10:20 PM
Re: A question for our German friends or serious historians...
[Re: DukeIronHand]
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,352
lederhosen
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,352
Germany
|
Salute
Can't remember which book it was, and I have looked for about an hour now, but one German Pilot called them "Sprengpunkte" or exploding points/dots.
did a quick look through that link given by Lou about FLAK. Found JFM's document and read the last lines. It says that the enemy has moved his AA Battery/elements/ even closer to the front and that the "Flakfeuer" is more intense now at yperen.
So to me, after reading the report, it sounds like Archie/Flak is being called Flakfeuer (Flakfire)[u][/u]
and that makes sence as it is just that, Flak-fire, and as it is one word its easy to enough to say. I could also imagine that after weeks/months of filling in reports that tired pilots (and clerks) would just shorten the thing to "Flak" and assumed everyone knows whats being meant.
Last edited by lederhosen; 02/01/15 10:24 PM.
make mistakes and learn from them
I5 4440 3.1Ghz, Asrock B85m Pro3, Gtx 1060 3GB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|