#4070171 - 01/27/15 06:18 PM
Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update.
[Re: EricJ]
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Eddie
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Which is not right, as F/A-18Cs did perform CAS in both Irag and Afghanistan, so where you got that wrong bit of information is beyond me, as it'd have to fly more than 10nm in-country (especially from the boat to Afghanistan, which isn't "10nm" north of the Indian Ocean, and from the Persian Gulf to service the whole country of Iraq) to support the troops on the ground. Matter of fact I checked with a person who used to fly in Hornets and after asking at least with a three-tank load and say some good amount of bombs, we'll call them GBU-31 JDAMs, around... say 1,200 nmi. Granted flight profile limits this radius but overall a bit more than "10nm". Again a good point where non-veterans don't know jack about the systems they're supposed to know about. And last time I checked OEF-OIF lasted a good while (13 years of constant conflict, with Afghanistan being about 14) so a lot of that combat data was gleaned from operational, not documentation basis,which to my knowledge is more factual.
It also should be noted while they often flew a mainly "high" flight profile both conflicts show it can still get into "deep" territory to support any fight, which if I remember correctly had initial heavy loadouts (GBU-31 and so on) and lightened as the wars went on. What does this have to do with what GG said? Aside from the tongue in cheek nature of his comment, which was clearly not meant to be taken literally, he is correct from big picture point of view. You seem to have missed the punctuaton and combined several separate statements in to one. But 'she' can't do a spectacular flat-dash intercept, deep strike or supersonic low-level reconnaissance that lasts more than 10nm, so no, she can't quite do 'any mission imaginable' Or in other words, it's not as good at the supersonic intercept mission as the Eagle, it doesn't come close to the deep strike capability of the Strike Eagle (and others) and nor can it sustain supersonic flight at low level for more than a very short dash. All of this is entirely true. Performance flying CAS missions in a COIN environment does not translate to flying deep strike, low level recce, or DCA in a conventional conflict, and two GBU-31 is hardly a heavy payload either. Now this doesn't mean the Hornet is bad, far from it, it just means that it is less capable in certain roles than more specialised types. Something that is also true of the Viper, for example. Although the Viper doesn't have the same "issue" with acceleration as the Hornet does.
Eddie
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#4070187 - 01/27/15 07:01 PM
Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update.
[Re: heat2151]
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GrayGhost
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+1 Eddie.
I did make a grammatical error, but I didn't think it would be that big deal. Eddie got all of the meaning right.
Last edited by GrayGhost; 01/27/15 07:02 PM.
-- 44th VFW
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#4070212 - 01/27/15 07:53 PM
Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update.
[Re: NavyNuke99]
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EricJ
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You make an excellent point Eric, but you also have to remember the Air Force also had a veritable conga line of tankers circling overhead between the water and any CAS areas of responsibility. In a theater where total air superiority had yet to be achieved, that wouldn't be possible. And even with a Super bug or two loaded as a strike tanker, you wouldn't get much more range, especially at low level. Already accounted for, thanks for the reminder But I did look at the Navy FactFile so while in reality it is "off" 1,200 miles is roughly what it would get for that particular model. Granted yes getting to Afghanistan takes more than one tanker but overall given from what I checked with (an actual Hornet operator) the figure is roughly matching with what the Navy claims, and what was experienced during the past. So given flight performance and such, yes the range will be dramatically reduced, I'm pretty sure with three tanks and the boat off in the distance, I can get more than that out of the Legacy, even in a denied area. Granted okay it's not the best but I'm sure I'll get deep into enemy territory. And as mentioned it's not as good as the Strike Eagle (a more capable jet) but if it's done in the reals as far as simulated (Nellis, Miramar) then it can be done. That's why I disagree with that "10nm" rule of thumb. And yes CAS is a much different profile (hours drilling holes in the sky, etc.) But again I'm not expecting the Hornet to reach a Strike Eagle level of deep territory, which is relative given the roles and relative MTOW weights.
| My Books | Home Page | http://562.combatace.com/ | - 'Nearly everyone felt the need to express their views on all wars to me, starting with mine. I found myself thinking, “I ate the crap sandwich, you didn’t, so please don’t tell me how it tastes.”' - CPT Cole, US Army - "...parade ground soldiers always felt that way (contempt) about killers in uniform." -Counting The Cost, Hammer's Slammers
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#4070260 - 01/27/15 09:16 PM
Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update.
[Re: heat2151]
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EricJ
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If I remember correctly the Falcons (I'm a bit fuzzy on this one) the Falcons carried the dumb bombs while the Phantoms carried the LGBs, or vice versa, but either way they probably carried either 1,000lb or 2,000lb (or even 500lb) to make the holes for the LGBs to fly into. And even then I'd estimate that they had at least a couple tanks along with it to get that far and back.
| My Books | Home Page | http://562.combatace.com/ | - 'Nearly everyone felt the need to express their views on all wars to me, starting with mine. I found myself thinking, “I ate the crap sandwich, you didn’t, so please don’t tell me how it tastes.”' - CPT Cole, US Army - "...parade ground soldiers always felt that way (contempt) about killers in uniform." -Counting The Cost, Hammer's Slammers
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#4070263 - 01/27/15 09:18 PM
Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update.
[Re: boomerang10]
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Flogger23m
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I'm assuming he's referring to Hormuz or NTTR.
ED announced in September 2014 that both would be "Winter 2014" releases, yet here we are in January 2015 and NTTR is still "pre-alpha" and Hormuz hasn't even made it into the game engine yet. Sorry, I was referring to DCS World 2. I knew the maps had a good chance of being delayed. But same question to - from Winter 2014 to possibly a year later. Remember, the maps might come out after EDGE.
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#4070269 - 01/27/15 09:27 PM
Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update.
[Re: EricJ]
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scrim
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If I remember correctly the Falcons (I'm a bit fuzzy on this one) the Falcons carried the dumb bombs while the Phantoms carried the LGBs, or vice versa, but either way they probably carried either 1,000lb or 2,000lb (or even 500lb) to make the holes for the LGBs to fly into. And even then I'd estimate that they had at least a couple tanks along with it to get that far and back. Operation Opera featured only Falcons IIRC. The Phantoms they had when they first wanted to get rid of the reactor lacked the range. The F-16s had 3 drop tanks and 2 2000lb dumb bombs each. That said, the Hornet has a larger internal fuel tank, as well as more hardpoints to carry munitions, so why they shouldn't be capable of deep strikes I don't see. Obviously unlikely to do it since the USAF has planes far better suited for it, but capable nonetheless.
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#4070272 - 01/27/15 09:31 PM
Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update.
[Re: heat2151]
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Jedi Master
Entil'zha
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Entil'zha
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AFAIK no maps other than the existing Black Sea are designed for anything but the EDGE update, so you can't fly in NTTR, or Hormuz, or Normandy, without it.
The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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#4070275 - 01/27/15 09:38 PM
Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update.
[Re: heat2151]
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komemiute
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*cue Dos Gringos music* Ooooh Iiiiii... Wish I had the Alpha of a Hornet...
"Himmiherrgottksakramentzefixhallelujah!" Para_Bellum
"It takes forever +/- 2 weeks for the A-10 to get anywhere significant..." Ice
"Ha! If it gets him on the deck its a start!" MigBuster
"What people like and what critics praise are rarely the same thing. 'Critic' is just another one of those unnecessary, overpaid, parasitic jobs that the human race has churned out so that clever slackers won't have to actually get a real job and possibly soil their hands." Sauron
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#4070277 - 01/27/15 09:41 PM
Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update.
[Re: heat2151]
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NavyNuke99
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Living to fight slow, while others scorn it...
" And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction: 'I served in the United States Navy.'"- John F. Kennedy
"NUKE-ular. It's pronounced NUKE-ular."- Homer Simpson
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#4070292 - 01/27/15 09:58 PM
Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update.
[Re: NavyNuke99]
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GrayGhost
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While that other guy's flying out of control, I can still pitch and roll ... Living to fight slow, while others scorn it...
-- 44th VFW
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#4070298 - 01/27/15 10:07 PM
Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update.
[Re: heat2151]
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NavyNuke99
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Because let's be honest:
I wanna take off from a carrier, some day before I die...
" And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction: 'I served in the United States Navy.'"- John F. Kennedy
"NUKE-ular. It's pronounced NUKE-ular."- Homer Simpson
AMD FX-8350 Vishera @ 4.0 Ghz ASUS Sabertooth 990FX R2.0 2x 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 @ 1600 Sapphire Radeon HD 7850 2GB CM Storm Series Trooper Samsung 840 series 500 GB OS/ Game drive WD Green 2TB Media Drive Thermaltake Black Widow 850W PSU
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#4070318 - 01/27/15 10:39 PM
Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update.
[Re: heat2151]
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scrim
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*Breaks the NSFW rule by following up with "My Wife's [edited]"*
Last edited by Force10; 01/27/15 11:26 PM. Reason: Leave it to the imagination
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#4070326 - 01/27/15 10:55 PM
Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update.
[Re: heat2151]
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EricJ
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That kinda killed the mood bro... to each their own though...
But as far as it goes it'd be nice to do any kind of strikes with a faster jet. The A-10C is great with all the clickiness but it's slow, and that's about it. Cool as all hell but yeah... a little fast flying would be nice for the Western side anyway.
But yeah the Osirak story I forgot the minute details over time but thanks scrim, I wondered why Phantoms were mentioned, that cleared it up.
| My Books | Home Page | http://562.combatace.com/ | - 'Nearly everyone felt the need to express their views on all wars to me, starting with mine. I found myself thinking, “I ate the crap sandwich, you didn’t, so please don’t tell me how it tastes.”' - CPT Cole, US Army - "...parade ground soldiers always felt that way (contempt) about killers in uniform." -Counting The Cost, Hammer's Slammers
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#4070329 - 01/27/15 11:11 PM
Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update.
[Re: GrayGhost]
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AggressorBLUE
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Jerz
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I've never quite understand how you run a business like that. I mean, I get that deadlines slip and such, but it feels like ED doesn't really even have a planned quarter for the Bug to drop. The longer the development, the greater the investment. Not having a (relatively) firm deadline means that they've no idea what the real dev cost of the product is. You can run it 'like this' when you have the freedom to, ie. the Ubisoft/EA's of the world aren't tying you down to a deadline with their up-front money. They seem to be doing fine with it. The Bug hits that bullseye dead center: She can dogfight, she can ground-pound, she can operate at land or sea, and do all of it in the same mission! But 'she' can't do a spectacular flat-dash intercept, deep strike or supersonic low-level reconnaissance that lasts more than 10nm, so no, she can't quite do 'any mission imaginable' And Ubi and EA seem to be doing more fine. I'm not saying I agree with their practices (they take things too far the other direction). Plus, there's been more than a few fallouts over the years in this community over money (DCS WWII and Leatherneck come to mind). I'm just wondering how the account/finance side does work itself out. As far as the bug; OK, this is true, but It's also safe to say it's more roles in one bird then we've had to date in DCS.
My Rig:i5-3570k @ 4.2 GHZ W/ Corsair Hydro H110 Cooler / Asus Sabertooth Z77 Mobo / GTX 1070/ 16 Gigs DDR3 RAM / A Few SSDs, and a Bunch of HDDs / All held together by: Corsair C70 Case Other Assets Deployed: HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog SN#22621/CH Throttle Quad/MFG Crosswind Pedals SN#0004 TrackIR TIR 5 w/ TrackClip Pro Simpit: Obutto R3VOLUTION
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#4070330 - 01/27/15 11:11 PM
Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update.
[Re: SkateZilla]
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AggressorBLUE
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Jerz
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yeah but you're not sure you won't compressor stall on final.... Only in the -As Didn't the B's have late-life engine problems as well? Something about eating turbine blades or the like?
My Rig:i5-3570k @ 4.2 GHZ W/ Corsair Hydro H110 Cooler / Asus Sabertooth Z77 Mobo / GTX 1070/ 16 Gigs DDR3 RAM / A Few SSDs, and a Bunch of HDDs / All held together by: Corsair C70 Case Other Assets Deployed: HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog SN#22621/CH Throttle Quad/MFG Crosswind Pedals SN#0004 TrackIR TIR 5 w/ TrackClip Pro Simpit: Obutto R3VOLUTION
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#4070336 - 01/27/15 11:52 PM
Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update.
[Re: AggressorBLUE]
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GrayGhost
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And Ubi and EA seem to be doing more fine. I'm not saying I agree with their practices (they take things too far the other direction). Plus, there's been more than a few fallouts over the years in this community over money (DCS WWII and Leatherneck come to mind). Ubi and EA are giants, and I believe there's some economy of scales there, not to mention the target audience. I also think this misses the point of what I said, but I may not have been clear As for DCS WWII and LN, DCS WWII was probably a lesson for ED as were some others, and LN was a lesson for the people involved there. Regardless, production of WW2 content continues and LN appears to be doing just fine I'm just wondering how the account/finance side does work itself out. All I know is that they're doing ok. I have always been curious about numbers and stuff, but I'm only privy to occasional tidbits that I can't share anyway. Let's just say it's more massive than some people think, and less so than what some others think. Also, I think the quality and target audience of a module can make costs for said module vary wildly. It's likely that they work development of the base world into the module prices, and for this reason they probably need to release new things early and often. As far as the bug; OK, this is true, but It's also safe to say it's more roles in one bird then we've had to date in DCS. Agreed, it'll be a great and fun fighter
-- 44th VFW
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#4070367 - 01/28/15 01:33 AM
Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update.
[Re: heat2151]
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RogueSqdn
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All you f****** wish you flew the Viper Probably since the time you wore a diaper We got every mission that you do And we fly em all better than you Yeah, all you f****** wish you flew the Viper
Cause we're single-seat, multi-role We can fly right up our own @$$hole! Yeah, all you f****** wish you flew the Viper!
Had to throw in the punchline of that song! But my favorites are split between Jeremiah Weed and The Wingmen.
Jared ----- FalconNW MachV, Obutto R3volution
DEFENSOR FORTIS
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Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
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