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#4069347 - 01/26/15 01:08 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. * [Re: heat2151]  
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I more or less bought A-10C because it was 60% off and I thought, "what the heck, I can fire it up every now and then and admire the view."

The hilarious thing is, the 'simplified' avionics in the A-10C module actually work. The FC3 module's 'simplified' avionics don't even work.


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#4069493 - 01/26/15 02:11 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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My beef with ED is their poor prognostication. They go for months (years) without announcing a release date, then they finally give one and it's almost always WAY off and there seems to be no way they couldn't have known it was going to be unattainable.
If it's still in pre-alpha (not alpha, PRE alpha after all these years?? confused ), how long was the regular alpha/beta/RC process expected to last at the end of 2014, 2 months??

In other words, by September at the LATEST it had to be obvious they were missing 2014 by a big margin, but they never said it. Instead, they do this alternating "we'll be open" and "I know NOTHING!!" dance with us, where they announce something, then as it approaches and it's apparent it won't even be a delay of a couple of months but perhaps QUARTERS they don't say "ok, 1H 2015 if we're lucky", they just let the date come right up, PASS, and then say a couple of weeks later "coming in the next 6 months or so!"

Unless they have some sort of massive problem with either A) feature creep (continually adding more things at the early stages which are preventing them from going alpha/beta/RC) or B) schedule pressure (continually postponing work on it to work on their contract side, only belatedly realizing that they're pushing back the commercial release another 6+ months) blowing their estimates, they have to be the worst estimators of project time I've ever seen.

I'm sure some might think that's a reason for ED to shut up again and not say anything until it's RC, but on the contrary my point was they should've been more open and told us MONTHS ahead of time that it wouldn't be out in 2014 when it was so obvious. I don't understand what they gain by publicly sticking to a deadline they can never meet (and probably should've known they wouldn't meet when they stated it!) when they can just slide it to the right. "Hey guys, looks like EDGE is going back a quarter." "Due to circumstances beyond our control, we've had to delay another quarter...maybe two."




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#4069531 - 01/26/15 03:12 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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How do they compare to F-35's project estimators? biggrin

Also, ED doesn't do deadlines, but I know - people take any date as a promise. Wags just about always says 'We hope to have this by that date'

Last edited by GrayGhost; 01/26/15 03:13 PM.

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#4069571 - 01/26/15 04:21 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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Veao Hawk is pretty easy to learn, as is the C-101.

I mean, they are trainers for a reason, right?

Outside of those 2, the F-86 is pretty simple compared to the A-10C


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#4069572 - 01/26/15 04:23 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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You guys also have to keep in mind that coding and bug fixing is as much voodoo as it is science and engineering- especially as a piece of software gets longer, more complex, and adds more external dependencies. A lot of the time, fixing one bug can introduce several more elsewhere in the code with little too no indication as to why. That's why testing and troubleshooting has to be pretty much continuous.


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#4069727 - 01/26/15 08:04 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
My beef with ED is their poor prognostication. They go for months (years) without announcing a release date, then they finally give one and it's almost always WAY off and there seems to be no way they couldn't have known it was going to be unattainable.
If it's still in pre-alpha (not alpha, PRE alpha after all these years?? confused ), how long was the regular alpha/beta/RC process expected to last at the end of 2014, 2 months??


My question to. I posted this on the ED forums, but I suspect this will not go over well with the fans there. I understand delays, but I don't see going from release in 4 months to still being in alpha 6 months later. By the time we get an alpha, it will likely have been 8 months since they made that announcement. That assumes the alpha is released in April. It may come as late as June (last month in the first half of the year); and that is still only an alpha.

I do not see how they could have thought they could have went from pre-alpha to release in four months. And it turns out they had not even imported the map into the engine when they made those announcements. Obviously you would expect some issues to prop up... I don't see how they thought winter 2014 was ever obtainable.

#4069732 - 01/26/15 08:16 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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What, the F-18?


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#4069747 - 01/26/15 08:43 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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I'm assuming he's referring to Hormuz or NTTR.

ED announced in September 2014 that both would be "Winter 2014" releases, yet here we are in January 2015 and NTTR is still "pre-alpha" and Hormuz hasn't even made it into the game engine yet.

#4069766 - 01/26/15 09:09 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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Hormuz is targeted for the F-18, which we won't even be really talking about until the other half of 2015.


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#4069813 - 01/26/15 10:03 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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The Hornet is like the next Presidential election, it happens whenever, not worried about it right now.



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#4069848 - 01/26/15 11:17 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
The Hornet is like the next Presidential election, it happens whenever, not worried about it right now.



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Uh, no. We know exactly when the next presidential election will be. The hornet on the other hand is just a nebulous "when it's done."

I've never quite understand how you run a business like that. I mean, I get that deadlines slip and such, but it feels like ED doesn't really even have a planned quarter for the Bug to drop. The longer the development, the greater the investment. Not having a (relatively) firm deadline means that they've no idea what the real dev cost of the product is.

Plus, the sim really needs a bird like this, like yesterday. I look at the main DCS site, and I see all the new aircraft we've been given over the past year or so (really, last 6 months even!). But to me, (and maybe it's just me), it feels like each one is a dart thrown at the board, and each one seems to miss the "bullseye" for what I'm looking for: A fast, smart, iconic western* multi-role plane.

The Bug hits that bullseye dead center: She can dogfight, she can ground-pound, she can operate at land or sea, and do all of it in the same mission!

Plus, a big reason for me is that the Bug rewards the time-investment in learning all the systems by opening up pretty much any possible mission scenario one can think of.

*This American would happily pilot a Mirage or Tornado as soon as he would any of the US jets. Just Sayin' smile

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#4069876 - 01/27/15 12:25 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: AggressorBLUE]  
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Originally Posted By: AggressorBLUE
I've never quite understand how you run a business like that. I mean, I get that deadlines slip and such, but it feels like ED doesn't really even have a planned quarter for the Bug to drop. The longer the development, the greater the investment. Not having a (relatively) firm deadline means that they've no idea what the real dev cost of the product is.


You can run it 'like this' when you have the freedom to, ie. the Ubisoft/EA's of the world aren't tying you down to a deadline with their up-front money. They seem to be doing fine with it.

Quote:
The Bug hits that bullseye dead center: She can dogfight, she can ground-pound, she can operate at land or sea, and do all of it in the same mission!


But 'she' can't do a spectacular flat-dash intercept, deep strike or supersonic low-level reconnaissance that lasts more than 10nm, so no, she can't quite do 'any mission imaginable' wink


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#4069926 - 01/27/15 02:32 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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Tomcat can though :p


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#4069930 - 01/27/15 02:49 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Tomcat can though :p


yeah but you're not sure you won't compressor stall on final.... tomcat


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#4069938 - 01/27/15 03:15 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: Genbrien]  
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Originally Posted By: Genbrien
Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Tomcat can though :p


yeah but you're not sure you won't compressor stall on final.... tomcat


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#4069995 - 01/27/15 06:21 AM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Originally Posted By: Genbrien
Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Tomcat can though :p


yeah but you're not sure you won't compressor stall on final.... tomcat


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#4070041 - 01/27/15 12:31 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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Really looking forward to EDGE and the WWII props .

#4070065 - 01/27/15 01:57 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: heat2151]  
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I meant it's so far out that I'm not worried about if it's meeting a schedule or not. It could come out in 2016 or 2017 or 2018, but I still won't have it THIS year. I knew when it was announced they hadn't done much work on it yet, so I was never expecting "release in X months from announcement" like some people apparently have.

Consider this: compare all the videos and screenshots we've seen of EDGE with both Black Sea and NTTR terrains with the number we've had of the Hornet. THAT is your yardstick for how close the two are to release, and that's why the Hornet is literally not on my radar...because a floating cockpit has a very small RCS. smile
On the other hand, we've had videos of EDGE for over a year now, maybe 2? It looks like it's been about a quarter away from release for a year anyway, granted that they won't have glitches and other bugs in the videos and shots they release.

EDGE is close enough, and has had its release date announced more than once, that we feel genuine impatience for it. The Hornet might as well be a Tomcat or a Falcon or a B-52 for how close we are to getting it.



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#4070148 - 01/27/15 05:17 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: GrayGhost]  
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Originally Posted By: GrayGhost


But 'she' can't do a spectacular flat-dash intercept, deep strike or supersonic low-level reconnaissance that lasts more than 10nm, so no, she can't quite do 'any mission imaginable' wink


Which is not right, as F/A-18Cs did perform CAS in both Irag and Afghanistan, so where you got that wrong bit of information is beyond me, as it'd have to fly more than 10nm in-country (especially from the boat to Afghanistan, which isn't "10nm" north of the Indian Ocean, and from the Persian Gulf to service the whole country of Iraq) to support the troops on the ground. Matter of fact I checked with a person who used to fly in Hornets and after asking at least with a three-tank load and say some good amount of bombs, we'll call them GBU-31 JDAMs, around... say 1,200 nmi. Granted flight profile limits this radius but overall a bit more than "10nm". Again a good point where non-veterans don't know jack about the systems they're supposed to know about. And last time I checked OEF-OIF lasted a good while (13 years of constant conflict, with Afghanistan being about 14) so a lot of that combat data was gleaned from operational, not documentation basis,which to my knowledge is more factual.

It also should be noted while they often flew a mainly "high" flight profile both conflicts show it can still get into "deep" territory to support any fight, which if I remember correctly had initial heavy loadouts (GBU-31 and so on) and lightened as the wars went on.


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#4070167 - 01/27/15 06:05 PM Re: DCS F/A-18C Progress Update. [Re: Boomer]  
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Originally Posted By: Helo_Head
ED really needs to start a developer blog for their Bug so we can at least get a flow of information.


They did friday updates on a weekly basis, which was discontinued for various reasons.


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