If the answer from 777/1c on the DN is satisfactory for you great. At the same time, if you eat Subway you can lose 300 pounds. If you buy a Ford truck you can haul an airplane. If you drink Bud Light you are a party stud. If you wear Nikes you can dunk like Jordan.
Just saying its called marketing. It is what a company does to sell you a product or idea. Some truth, some extended truth, and there is always the fine print.
Hum, I chose not to beleive the conspiracy theories in this case... mostly because what they said made sense.
Where are you getting crazy conspiracy theories from? Marketing is marketing. Its selling a brand and making the brand look good for the consumer.
You really think 777/1c would say their engine cant handle many AI, no dynamic campaigns, no ground war, but it was a cheaper alternative, but we wanted to make money ASAP so we used DN since it was less complicated. No. They are going to tell you the benefits of it, as well as it was used to bring the consumer a product sooner. They will of course gloss over the limitations.
Just like Subway is marketing their food a "healthier alternative" to burger joints. Of course they are going to show you food with veggies and no mayo, and former fatboy Jarrod, but 75% of their food has similar calories to a burger. Thats what fine print is for.
What I am saying is if you take face value at what a for-profit company tells you, you will miss the fine print. Example? Well you just posted one.
As much as members of this forum might not want to bring up arguments from other forums you must appreciate that members here are rightly irritated when a moderator from another forum comes here and conducts himself in a way that has seen some members banned over there - I'm talking about petty name calling, posting an image in a reply to enflame a thread and post in what some would consider an aggressive manner. We're flesh and blood, not machines so its understandable that people would take issue with that kind of behaviour, the rules may not be as strict here but hypocrisy is universal.
SharperXB and Bearcat99, please keep doing what you are already doing. Probably you guys just don't realize that you are getting the opposite result that you guys thought/aim (perhaps a quest from.....). I'm pretty happy to see people getting frustrated and taking even more distance from this crap GAME. What I find hilarious is that [a moderator] come here and do the same exactly thing for why he banned people on BOS forum. In my house there is a simple word that describe your behavior, i'll keep to myself but it starts with H, ends with Y and it is made of 9 letters.....
Last edited by CyBerkut; 12/17/1408:41 PM. Reason: moderation
SharperXB and Bearcat99, please keep doing what you are already doing. Probably you guys just don't realize that you are getting the opposite result that you guys thought/aim (perhaps a quest from.....). I'm pretty happy to see people getting frustrated and taking even more distance from this crap GAME. What I find hilarious is that [a moderator] come here and do the same exactly thing for why he banned people on BOS forum. In my house there is a simple word that describe your behavior, i'll keep to myself but it starts with H, ends with Y and it is made of 9 letters.....
WillianG
you've just given me a new perpective on all this...just when I was about to die from the tedium of repititous posts from these guys....I'd not considered the "Scarlet H" perspective....I don't bother with the official forums because of the blatant censure and heavy handedness dealt out to dissenting opinions that don't sing "Everything is Beautiful....in its own way"
Everybody Sing!!
Now I can look with new eyes upon these old posts!
Thanks
PS...if you made it through Ray Stevens singing that song...in its entirety....your a stronger man than I am
Last edited by CyBerkut; 12/17/1408:48 PM. Reason: Moderation
You really think 777/1c would say their engine cant handle many AI, no dynamic campaigns, no ground war, but it was a cheaper alternative, but we wanted to make money ASAP so we used DN since it was less complicated. No. They are going to tell you the benefits of it, as well as it was used to bring the consumer a product sooner. They will of course gloss over the limitations.
Hmm, that wans't what I was answering. The OP asked why they went with DN over CloD... the devs gave the exact answer. It was the truth, not some sort of veiled marketing speak to fool us into buying a bad sim.
Heck, they went out and flat out said they were using the RoF engine... of which the limitations are well known. But the advantages of doing were also significant, and those are the reasons they went for the DN engine... precisely as they said.
What should they have said instead? That they used the DN engine because it can't handle lots of AI units? Of course that's not why... they did so for precisely the reasons they stated. Heck, on top of the good qualities of DN, they even stated that they chose it because it was faster and easier. That kinda obviates the claim that it was all marketing speak to pull a fast one on us. They were as up front about it as could be as could be: they had a good engine already, and could quickly turn it around and make a WWII sim with it. Which they did.
That said, to address your flaws of DN, the only one you listed that's significant is the lack of AI units. But no dynamic campaign? BoS _has_ a Dynamic Campaign, indeed its single player offerings are far better than CloD. It might not be very immersive (something I hope is fixed through mods), but it's still more than CloD (which took DesasterSoft to make pretty good campaigns... it'd be nice to see what they could do with BoS).
And I'm not sure how no ground war got there... is that significant? I've seen ground forces fighting each other in BoS... though I imagine the AI limit might enter in consideration here. But then again, the only sim I know of that really did a ground war was F4.
Mind you, there's this weird competition between CLoD and BoS going on in the sim community, which I find rather strange. Both are pretty good sims (thanks to TF, for CLoD), and there's room on my HD for both. I think both of them have their unique strengths. I'm quite happy playing both.
That said, to address your flaws of DN, the only one you listed that's significant is the lack of AI units. But no dynamic campaign? BoS _has_ a Dynamic Campaign, indeed its single player offerings are far better than CloD. It might not be very immersive (something I hope is fixed through mods), but it's still more than CloD (which took DesasterSoft to make pretty good campaigns... it'd be nice to see what they could do with BoS).
And I'm not sure how no ground war got there... is that significant? I've seen ground forces fighting each other in BoS... though I imagine the AI limit might enter in consideration here. But then again, the only sim I know of that really did a ground war was F4.
Mind you, there's this weird competition between CLoD and BoS going on in the sim community, which I find rather strange. Both are pretty good sims (thanks to TF, for CLoD), and there's room on my HD for both. I think both of them have their unique strengths. I'm quite happy playing both.
No, BoS has a random misson generator. There is nothing dynamic about it aside from it being generated randomly. Buildings blown up are back the next mission. Tanks destroyed are back the next mission. You can wipe out an entire airfield including aircraft, and they are back again. This goes with enemies sapwning and not having a true flight path/objective. Same with your squad. Its groundhog day.
Ground war. IL21946 with DCG count ground units into the campaign. Ground units take territory/airfields/towns, pushing the front lines. Also supply lines. Bombing them or not, had outcomes on the campaign. Battles between 2 opposing ground forces had an effect. There is nothing like that in BoS. Again, its spawned in units, that serve no purpose other than fodder. Groundhog day on the next mission.
As far as CLoD goes, have you not tried Heinkills redux campaigns? The TF campaign? Many other user made ones? Granted SP is not CLoDs strong point, but it blows BoS out of the water on static (Heninkill, Desatersoft), and random mission generation (TF campaign / The Enlightened Florist).
SharperXB and Bearcat99, please keep doing what you are already doing. Probably you guys just don't realize that you are getting the opposite result that you guys thought/aim (perhaps a quest from.....). I'm pretty happy to see people getting frustrated and taking even more distance from this crap GAME. What I find hilarious is that [a moderator] come here and do the same exactly thing for why he banned people on BOS forum. In my house there is a simple word that describe your behavior, i'll keep to myself but it starts with H, ends with Y and it is made of 9 letters.....
WillianG
you've just given me a new perpective on all this...just when I was about to die from the tedium of repititous posts from these guys....I'd not considered the "Scarlet H" perspective....I don't bother with the official forums because of the blatant censure and heavy handedness dealt out to dissenting opinions that don't sing "Everything is Beautiful....in its own way"
Everybody Sing!!
Now I can look with new eyes upon these old posts!
Thanks
PS...if you made it through Ray Stevens singing that song...in its entirety....your a stronger man than I am
You have to SUCK IT UP the whole video OR BE GONE!!! XD
That said, to address your flaws of DN, the only one you listed that's significant is the lack of AI units. But no dynamic campaign? BoS _has_ a Dynamic Campaign, indeed its single player offerings are far better than CloD. It might not be very immersive (something I hope is fixed through mods), but it's still more than CloD (which took DesasterSoft to make pretty good campaigns... it'd be nice to see what they could do with BoS).
And I'm not sure how no ground war got there... is that significant? I've seen ground forces fighting each other in BoS... though I imagine the AI limit might enter in consideration here. But then again, the only sim I know of that really did a ground war was F4.
Mind you, there's this weird competition between CLoD and BoS going on in the sim community, which I find rather strange. Both are pretty good sims (thanks to TF, for CLoD), and there's room on my HD for both. I think both of them have their unique strengths. I'm quite happy playing both.
No, BoS has a random misson generator. There is nothing dynamic about it aside from it being generated randomly. Buildings blown up are back the next mission. Tanks destroyed are back the next mission. You can wipe out an entire airfield including aircraft, and they are back again. This goes with enemies sapwning and not having a true flight path/objective. Same with your squad. Its groundhog day.
Ground war. IL21946 with DCG count ground units into the campaign. Ground units take territory/airfields/towns, pushing the front lines. Also supply lines. Bombing them or not, had outcomes on the campaign. Battles between 2 opposing ground forces had an effect. There is nothing like that in BoS. Again, its spawned in units, that serve no purpose other than fodder. Groundhog day on the next mission.
As far as CLoD goes, have you not tried Heinkills redux campaigns? The TF campaign? Many other user made ones? Granted SP is not CLoDs strong point, but it blows BoS out of the water on static (Heninkill, Desatersoft), and random mission generation (TF campaign / The Enlightened Florist).
I guess we differ on dynamic. I'd consider the EAW campaign dynamic, myself, or the RoF Career mode. But I can see your point of view.
As for CLoD static campaigns, none of these are straight out of the box, so they don't really enter into the argument. I mean, I've played the desastersoft campaigns (well, Wick vs Dundas), and of course they're great. And Heinkill does awesome work, but again that's all 3rd party. Once BoS releases its mission generator, and we'll see the same (heck, we already have a static campaign, check out the Chir Front campaign, quite impressive work).
As for the random mission generation, I fear I'll have to disagree: BoS' offering is far better. More polished and less clunky by far. And that's straight out of the box.
But like I said before, it's not like there's an actual competition here. BoS is still being developed, and will get better. CloD is still great in many things. I'm having fun with both.
Some would take exception to the statement that they delivered what they said they would. So whether faulting them for that is misplaced is a matter of opinion.
Also, much of the fault directed at 1c/777 has little to do with the pretty pictures the game can produce, it has to do with how the other features flightsimmers expect from the product work or do not.
There are many who take exception with the changes just prior to roll out of the game too, may we fault them for that or has that also been deemed misplaced?
Something that may lead to a slap on the hand or more drastic repercussions: We have been subjected to a blitz from some from the BOS forums, who seem to have ran out of people over there to berate or ban and they seem to have played the victim card here with success.
They seem to have convinced the moderation here that they have been misread and are in fact being unfairly picked on to the extent that they need rescuing.
Not cool, but only my opinion. We all maybe need to step back a bit.
Take exception is an understatement. Not all flight simmers are quite as irate as some others though. Some, like myself... and many many others, who are just as unhappy about certain decisions made by the development team at 1CGS have chosen to indeed "suck it up" and get on with the process of trying to enjoy BoS for what it is as opposed to what we wish it was. No one is playing the "victim card" or trying to convince the moderators here of anything. I think the moderation here sees things quite clearly. Some of you just refuse to see some things as they are for whatever reasons you have chosen to do so.
Originally Posted By: Revvin
As much as members of this forum might not want to bring up arguments from other forums you must appreciate that members here are rightly irritated when a moderator from another forum comes here and conducts himself in a way that has seen some members banned over there - I'm talking about petty name calling, posting an image in a reply to enflame a thread and post in what some would consider an aggressive manner. We're flesh and blood, not machines so its understandable that people would take issue with that kind of behaviour, the rules may not be as strict here but hypocrisy is universal.
You are serious no doubt... but wow. Who did I call names... ? What manner have I conducted myself in that has been so horrible... other than standing up for myself. If you look at the bulk of my posts in this forum.. with basically one exception.. that I admitted was a poor choice of words and corrected within hours of posting, 6 weeks ago... (and of course that too was met with the same insults to my character that have continued non stop from some circles..) What have I done that has been so insulting and so demanding of the type of response I have gotten from you and others here? If my picture of Karnak has inflamed you or you think that is aggressive then you are pretty darned thin skinned and you can dish it out but you can't take it. It seems to me that you and others are more offended by my presence than anything that I post because it is obvious that you either do not read or refuse to acknowledge what I post. I have made my position on BoS and why I post here quite clear on several occasions , sometimes with a "wall of text" that also seems to offend some folks here. You folks continue to quote my "suck it up" comment (taking it totally out of context in the process) as if it were some kind of curse, when in reality .. I had to do exactly that as well... as I have also stated on more than one occasion.. namely "suck it up" and decide whether I was going to get busy with dealing with the sim as it is or stay upset about what it is not.. I chose the former of course. Hypocrisy? I don't see it... I have stated my feelings on BoS quite clearly for anyone who cares to to read them here and on the BoS forum and even in this very thread but some seem to want to continue to ignore what I post for whatever reason they have.
Originally Posted By: WillianG
SharperXB and Bearcat99, please keep doing what you are already doing. Probably you guys just don't realize that you are getting the opposite result that you guys thought/aim (perhaps a quest from.....). I'm pretty happy to see people getting frustrated and taking even more distance from this crap GAME. What I find hilarious is that [a moderator] come here and do the same exactly thing for why he banned people on BOS forum. In my house there is a simple word that describe your behavior, i'll keep to myself but it starts with H, ends with Y and it is made of 9 letters.....
What result am I trying to get? I am just talking about the sim. I have no hidden agenda. I keep telling you folks that but you just refuse to see it. What have I done that I would have banned people for at BoS? You show me my post that would have gotten me banned at BoS. YHou talk about what "I" did at BoS... There is only one person I banned at BoS that I feel I might have jumped the gun on.. and I squared that with him so what is your problem? Every person that I banned at BoS deserved it and all of them got warning PMs from me before they were banned... ALL of them, often more than a few. That should have nothing to do with what goes on here. The rules are different here than there. Here my posts should speak for themselves and I have been very clear. Why do you folks insist on making this about ME despite the fact that you have been told several times to let it go and get off my back? What part of that don't you understand?
If you have a problem with me then [b]that is not my problem it is yours. [/b]
I have done nothing here to warrant the constant BS that keeps coming my way and I will not back down, I will not go away, and I will not stop defending myself when ANY OF YOU call me out, directly or indirectly. I have just as much right to be here as you do and just because I am not on your bandwagon does not mean that I do not share some of your displeasure with certain aspects of BoS again.. as I have said multiple time across multiple boards.
Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
. I don't come here to argue or be insulted or to insult folks.
But you do Bearcat, you do argue, you do get insulted just as you insult others here. But the problem is that when someone disagrees with you or the other "Fanbois" that come here with a mission to convert the "BOS "Hater"" you are confronted with the reality of the concrete deficiencies in BOS. It seems you can't stand the fact that someone will write about the deficiencies in BOS, comparing them to long agreed upon Customer appreciated proponents that make up a Good Flight Sim that actually makes the paying Customer happy and gives enjoyment from using the product. It is funny, every time the BOS FanBois leave the SHQ BOS threads here alone, it gets quiet and hardly any posting is going on, but as soon as you guys poke your head in here the thread posting goes wild. Why does that happen? Because their are people here that are just as adamant about their dissatisfaction with BOS as you are adamant about your satisfaction with BOS. The Solutiion? Maybe you should accept that there are people that Love BOS and that their are people that Dislike BOS. Let it be at that and don't feel that you need to convince everyone otherwise for the Good of the genre. Be content that over at the Official BOS Forums that everything looks very good and that BOS is portrayed as a good product pretty much.
Let's stop using the derogatory terms, such as "Fanboys" / "Fanbois" and "Haters" to describe members. It lowers the conversation, and is unnecessary.
Well OK ... I'll bite.. who did I insult this time... since that is what I come here to do and you obviously can read my mind.. and the minds of other posters here. You want to know why it quiets down in here when folks who have a differing opinion back off... ? It is the same dynamic when there is no blood in the water in a pool of sharks. What makes you think that I or anyone else cares that you don't like BoS to the point where we would try to sway you.. We are not trying to sway you.. just offer a counter to the glass half empty histrionics.
Here you go, I really didn't want to do this, it is a pain in the A$$ to find all of these, but each one is from the SHQ threads here. I didn't have to read your mind, you put it all in writing, even you saying you didn't come here to insult anyone. This is not an attack on you, it is simply doing what you asked me to do in your post above. "who did I insult this time... since that is what I come here to do and you obviously can read my mind.. and the minds of other posters here." I think the differences between you and me is that I know I have insulted people, even been banned sometimes and I just own it. It's nothing to be proud of. I share on any Forum to share the experience I have with the product at hand, good, bad or indifferent, hoping that if I share the Truth of my experience it might help someone else, unless I am asking a question and seeking info. I don't write on any Forum to steer a discussion in any particular direction as you state that you do. Oh, and about the blood analogy, do you see that it works the same way over on the BOS Forum? When someone raises an issue with BOS, Shout em down, delete posts, ban them, sway them to our point of view or run them off saying they are disrupting the Forum. Please don't say that doesn't happen over there. Everyone is getting their say over here, so you can't say that BOS FanBois are being attacked over here, but actually , you do. "and for some of you every post you have made at SHQ over the past month or two.. every single post has been a whining complaining negativity fest about BoS .. or an attack on some forum member.. often me. Hissy fits?" If you are going to post over here, then deal with it as I (and others I suppose) have to deal with yours and other FanBois post that I do not particularly care for. As I said before, maybe you should be content with The BOS Forums being calm since most "Haters" have been run off or just moved on. Since you state that FanBois are attacked over here and you know they are not attacked over there, then maybe that is a safer more peaceful place for you all to post??? That is just me thinking out loud, nothing more nothing less. I have attached no attitude to this writing and I have not altered your quoted previous posts in any way, shape or form. Sorry it took so long for me to get back to you, but RL has been hectic lately.
1.I play offline all the time. I play mostly offline. Perhaps there is a short between the headset. 2.No cleaning house is making the forum a better place for people who want to talk about what is good about the sim... as opposed to the never ending gripefest that seems to be all some folks are capable of.. any where. 3.and for some of you every post you have made at SHQ over the past month or two.. every single post has been a whining complaining negativity fest about BoS .. or an attack on some forum member.. often me. Hissy fits? You of all people crack me up. Have fun. I know I will. Between DCS, BoS, CoD and IL2 I will be enjoying my sim time rather than complaining about things I cannot change.. including the stilted viewpoints of you and your band of brother 4.You would think that 1CGS hacked into the bank accounts of all the dissatisfied.. when in reality for many of the folks who bought into the pre order .. the money they spent adds up to beer money or dinner and a movie with the family. It certainly does not warrant some of the intense rhetoric that no one in this thread may have spouted .. but is certainly out there. 5.All you have to do is remove your blinders and actually read my posts here. 6.If that concept, that I could possibly have an opinion on BoS that comes from my experience with the sim and no other place is just too difficult for you to grasp then perhaps you should just not read what I post, or comment on it or me since you are obviously talking out of the side of your neck. 7.Well OK ... I'll bite.. who did I insult this time... since that is what I come here to do and you obviously can read my mind.. and the minds of other posters here. 8.Now you can fly it or don't fly it but if you come on here slagging it.. as if there were some OTHER next gen WWII sims as an option no offense but you are either blind or an idiot. 9.I'm waiting..... waiting........ waiting......
I don't hear anybody.... WTH!!???
Oh wait... THERE ISN'T ONE. 10. I am going to put my money on as far as having the potential to experience other theaters on a platform other than IL2 in a reasonable amount of time it is this sim and this team. Anyone who can't see that is either blind or in denial. 11.Yeah yeah I know ... for some of you guys it always ran great and it is cutting edge and yada yada yada .. 11.You got beef with this team..? Fine.. but don't beat the genre.. because right now there are not a lot of options. Grow up. Suck it up. Either get on board now or get on board later.. but unless you want to see everything relegated to the arcade furballs that some of you so snobbishly turn up your noses at stop shooting this sim and this team down because for better or worse 1CGS is the best thing to happen to the WWII era sim and it's potential future since Oleg Maddox left the building. Deal with it. Don't beat the genre.. which is more important than any one sim. Rant over....
12.Try to steer a discussion in a positive direction and it is always met with the same nasty response.. Un friggin real.
S!Blade<><
P.S. Oh, and it is insulting that you think I need to read peoples minds. I am Omniscient, I have no need for mind reading! Edit: Obviously, there is a little attitude in the statement directly above this, but i was just trying to end on a light heated note. Please do not take personnel exception to that comment. It was meant in Jest only. Truth be known, I am actually not omniscient.
Haha - He seems so mad. "I will not back down, I will not..." LOL
It was so easy when he could just delete posts and ban everyone. Maybe we should be nice to him. It seems like there's quite a bit of slobber on his keyboard today.
Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 5,562Airdrop01
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Airdrop01
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Kansas, USA
Originally Posted By: Bearcat99
one exception.. that I admitted was a poor choice of words and corrected within hours of posting,
awwwww....that is cute.
Hours?
"For I know the plans that I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11
Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Matthew 5:11
Indeed we call blessed those who have persevered. You have heard of the perseverance of Job, and you have seen the purpose of the Lord, because “the Lord is compassionate and merciful. James 5:11
You can cherry pick my posts and quote me out of context all you want to BM and you can keep on bringing up old stuff that has been beaten to death.. but I stand by what I said.
.. and no Bliss.. I am not mad at all.. you folks can't make me mad but I will stand up for myself and I will not let people piss on me and call it rain. This from a guy who goes toe to toe tit for tat for pages on end.
Drop.... OK days... I won't open up that debate again because that entire thread is pretty clear... besides that was almost two months ago and I refuse to open that up again. Get over it.
Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
You can cherry pick my posts and quote me out of context all you want to BM and you can keep on bringing up old stuff that has been beaten to death.. but I stand by what I said.
.. and no Bliss.. I am not mad at all.. you folks can't make me mad but I will stand up for myself and I will not let people piss on me and call it rain. This from a guy who goes toe to toe tit for tat for pages on end.
And, just to be clear, this is what you said Sir.
Originally Posted By: Bearcat99
I don't come here to argue or be insulted or to insult folks.
You asked me to tell you who you insulted.
Originally Posted By: Bearcat99
I'll bite.. who did I insult this time.
I did just that using your quoted unedited posts. And now you call me a liar???
Originally Posted By: Bearcat99
You can cherry pick my posts and quote me out of context all you want to BM
Do you want me to quote each whole post from which those quotes came ? There is only 2 choices here. You either stick with, " I didn't come here to insult people" and disown all of the posts you wrote which I quoted directly from your posts, or you admit that you have come here and insulted people and own all of the posts that you wrote, which I directly quoted here. You just can't have it both ways and call me a Liar. Anyone with a second grade education will see that that is not possible? And just for the record, I don't appreciate being called a Liar, especially when you don't just come right out and say it, but you just insinuate it. That is a poor play Sir!
What do you think would happen if I placed the following post on the BoS forum:
"I don't know what Loft was thinking when he designed the SP Campaign for BoS...perhaps it was a short between the headset. And since then Loft has been talking out the side of his neck. Regarding what is being said about the SP Campaign on other flight sim forums, Loft is just going to have to suck it up and get over it because it is never going to end until he changes the design."
Would it be deleted? Would I be banned?
But in your defense...
C'mon guys, the SimHQ BoS section wouldn't be nearly as fun without Bearcat and the gang of mirth makers from the BoS forum! BoS Forum Mirth Makers
Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up! Can you say "JABO!"
OK folks. This has gotten a bit difficult to wade through, etc.
I'm going to lock this down. Nobody should interpret that as agreement with a particular set of claims or positions. It's not the result of any one post within the last couple of pages.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.simhq.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/SimHQ1.png)
Truth be known, I am actually not omniscient. 
