QTim SFS extractor for il-2 was posted in Russian AviaForum 06.25.2006.

The first public* unnoficial MOD for il-2, the "Sound MOD" - appear in 09/2007.

* Obvious, the Eastern guys have his particular MOD's, like FM, "Radar"... before this date.

Sokol1

These dogs has a purpose, since many guys complain that don't hear enemy hits in their planes, the dogs will warn them when this happen.

If hear the dogs, break!

Sokol1

DCS does allow free mods, it even has a forum section with tips on how to do it.

You mean, if hear the dogs, bark?

Hum, aren't those campaigns mods themselves, built to work with RoF? Why would you factor those into BoS, and expect BoS to have something like those on release?

If anything, these mods mean that BoS will almost certainly have immersive SP campaign mods in the future. Since RoF does, there's no reason BoS won't. Heck, to me it looks like BoS' single player was specifically engineering to make it easier to develop campaign mods like Pat Weeke's, by providing a dynamic mission builder as the core of its SP campaign.

Think about it: the BoS SP campaign mission generator basically consists of a bunch of knobs that a mod simply needs to manipulate to create a consistent experience, and all that a campaign mod would need to be is a GUI and logic that fiddles with these knobs before launching the mission: campaign phase, airfield, aircraft type, mission objective/length, and difficulty level (and there probably are other parameters available we don't get to see in the current campaign GUI, like time of day and flight composition and so on). I imagine BoS also includes an API to provide these parameters, that can be used by any campaign mod.

On top of that, we also know that BoS dumps meticulous logs, which a mod could parse to provide complete debriefings (and tracking squadron status and so on).

Of course, this begs the question: if the BoS SP campaign has all these features, why didn't they go ahead and make a career mode or some such? The answer is no doubt to save time and money, which is quite understandable when you look at RoF. RoF has a deep career mode, and yet it's the PWCG that gets the most praise. So it seems logical to conclude that the devs decided to focus on providing the best foundations for a dynamic campaign, and let modders handle the window dressing (as it were).

So anyway, point is: I fully expect BoS to get a pretty awesome immersive campaign mod in time, and to take advantage of the advances BoS introduced in its dynamic campaign (for example, the campaign missions in BoS are generally much better than the career RoF missions).

I have high hopes for the future, in effect. Coupled with the kind of work we've seen is possible with Veteran's Chir Front campaign, things are looking up.

The DN engine cannot do a dynamic campaign.

As far as the rest, I just have a much different opinion than you. The SP campaign in RoF (which is still in beta lol) is horrible. Nothing deep about it. Its pretty hollow as well. Barren ground, spawning enemies, and nothing dynamic. Is it better than the one in BoS? Sure. But its far from "deep". Its a small scale,random mission, groundhog day. Thats it. Nothing more.

PWCG was a nice attempt for a dynamic mission generator, but again its not a dynamic campaign. Also, it is still run in a separate window and clunky as hell. Again, its the best option for RoF but that does not mean its good.

I still find DCG for IL2 and FalconBMS to be the most fun campaigns and they are dynamic, large scale, diverse, deep, and interesting. I have seen nothing in RoF/BoS even come close.

I dont see mods being able to pull off static, large scale, historic campaigns, as much as much as the competitors, let alone a dynamic one.

1.I agree, the beta Campaign in ROF is pretty dry, but if you compare it to BOS, ROF Beta Canpaign is like finding a Unicorn that eats garbage and poops golden nuggets! At least in ROF Beta, you have a Historic Squad, fellow pilots(with names and lives), Squad Skins if you like and Historical time periods and Aerodromes. Also there are Current news events, AAR reports and stat tracking. BOS has sqaut, non historical, non immersive repetitious SQUAT!.
Now with PWCG, I disagree with you. True it is not Dynamic, but it is as dam close as you can get with the DN engine. True the interface is Clunky, but it very well done other than having to switch GUIs back and forth, which actually is easy with the PWCG GUI mod. Compared to the Beta Campaign, PWCG is Heaven and you are at the controls. If you take the time, Pat has made PWCG extremely adjustable to suit each players needs. He has, Squad mates named and lives, Individual Sqaud skins, Historical Aerodromes, Squad logs and Stats, Even a Journal that you can keep during your Campaign. It is very well done. The handicap is still the DN engine because anything over about 16 planes in the air at once and even the fastest computer will slow down.

2. Agreed, although PWCG is the closest thing(non Dynamic though) but definitely deserves mention again.

3. Agreed, I just don't see this happening and I see it as the downfall of BOSs' hope to have large scale success and a long life.

OF Course this is just MHO, nothing more.

S!Blade<><

Let me be more clear. I agree with you. The RoF compared to BoS is much better in every sense (like a cracker is probably awesome to starving man). The RoF career I just dont see as an example to follow when there are better ones out there. Its still not up to par, or at least my expectations of a deep campaign.

Also, not to take anything away from Pat Wilson. He did great with the tools he had. Why 777 could never implement his campaign into RoF (as in the interface) with more support is beyond me. If its technical reasons, again this shows the restrictions set on the DN engine, therefore another strike against 3rd parties making a good campaign for BoS.

I would be much happier if BoS had PWCG over what it is currently though, no doubt about that.

But yea....we are on the same page.

I guess our definition of dynamic campaigns differ greatly... if you're talking F4 or BoBII levels, then yeah... there's pretty much no sim outside of those that do it. Even EAW didn't do that.

If you mean a series of dynamically generated missions, which can be tied together in a simulated campaign, RoF certainly had that, and BoS has that as well... it's just not very immersive. The good news is that it can and almost certainly will be handled through mods like the PWCG (indeed, to me it looks like BoS was built with that idea in mind: provide the tools modders need to make a dynamic campaign, using their existing campaign mission generator). All the building blocks are there, they just need to be used.

That said, I don't see why BoS couldn't have large historic campaigns. That doesn't require having masses of AI units (the biggest downside of the BoS engine, of course). We already have a nice campaign (check out the Chir Front campaign), and there's no reason that won't get better with the release of the mission generator.

Well, to be clear, PWCG not being in the RoF GUI has nothing to do with the engine. The menus and such occurring outside the actual flight aren't really related to the engine (or very thinly so). It'd be nice if it was introduced, but then again isn't that what they tried to do with the career mode?

My theory (pure speculation), is that the devs saw that people were going with PWCG over their own career mode, and figured it'd be more economical to just focus on the core experience and leave elaborate campaign wrappers to the modding community. That way they get to focus their limited man hours on things only they can change (that is to say, things requiring actual code changes in the engine).

That's why I think the campaign is as it is: just a series of knobs we turn to generate a mission... there's no reason a human has to be the one turning those knobs, it could clealry be handled by some mod instead (that fiddles with those knobs according to its campaign settings... like what date it is, what squadron you're flying, and so on).

I am willing to wait at least 6-12 months to see what is done by then. So I am holding most of my hard frustration till then considering how old this sim is. Granted it was built on the RoF engine.. but FB was built on the IL2 engine.. and look how long it took it to get from FB 2.0 to FB 4.0. In the meantime I am just trying to slofg through that d@mnpaign and doing offline quicks.

What is this Mod released by 777 Dev's and Modders to integrate PWCG into the GUI about then?

http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=278&t=33184

seems it has been in use for more than two years..perhaps your info is out of date....

Cheers Dakpilot

I agree with all this campaign talk. ANYTHING would be better than the current SP Campaign whether it is a PWCG style, RoF style b-Campaign (probably the easiest to port to BoS), or of course a dynamic campaign like in IL-2 1946.



And I agree with this 100%. If the DN engine won't handle large numbers of AI units, then tell a great story dripping with history instead.

I think the lack of some sort of a traditional campaign has hurt BoS more than they realized it would. In the note published by AbortedMan Jason said he "railed" against the current SP Campaign during development. If we had any one of the campaign styles mentioned above a lot of this angst wouldn't have occurred. At least the MP guys have something tangible to look forward to after grinding out the unlocks. SP players have nothing to look forward to beyond the current SP Campaign other than to hope. "Buy this product and maybe it will get better" probably doesn't sell well. I wouldn't have bought BoS if I knew what the SP Campaign was to become, and I certainly wouldn't buy it now on a hope and a prayer.

A great SP Campaign experience is the most critical missing element in BoS, and if 1CGS doesn't have all hands on board working on it now then I doubt it will ever come. If they try to fall back on their FMB/ME and hope for 3rd Party contributions they will need to include the ability to string missions together in-game to create true campaigns with it like in IL-2 1946. What else could 1CGS be working on that is more important? Campaigns are the heart of a sim for SP players.

Yeah.
It really baffles me why 777/1C couldn't take Pat on the books to edit his campaign generator to work with BoS (I know Pat has said he wont port his CG over to BoS, but I am sure some sort of incentive could be found), or if not put one of the 777 programmers on the code to get it to talk to BoS. Surely it couldn't be that hard to re-code it to work.
I am sure the cost would outweigh all the negativity about the pile of #%&*$# they call a campaign in this game.

SD

Others had it as well, before then, not just the eastern guys

I believe that the first independent Mod map was the Malta map by Maraz? perhaps someone has better info, and when this was able to be played in game as a mod in original IL-2

Am sure Jason said that the code for PWCG is open and available to anyone who wants to create similar campaigns for BoS

With the higher popularity that WWII has I would expect some talented people would look into this in a similar manner that DCG was created for IL-2 by 3rd party user
Pat Wilson has said he has no intent in creating campaigns for a WWII environment as that is not his period of interest

Cheers Dakpilot

Look at the way the current campaign works....it is completely unhistorical

And I don't just mean the random spawning, the lack of ground action...and so on

The PIECEMEAL commitment of forces which speaks directly to the AI limits of the engine and is a violation of tactical principles.

Fly any mission and what you will see are small formations, normally no more than 8 aircraft on your side

Then intercepted by 4-6 on their side

Then maybe on the way back another 2 or 4

This happens all the time and appears deliberate...limiting engagements to piecemeal commitments (a violation of the mass tactics that actually won battles by concentrating forces to deliver significant blows)

This is a BIG PROBLEM IMO....and so any mission generator bounded by what appears to be constraints on AI entities within the battlespace is going to be limited to very sterile unhistorical engagement scenarios.

That link does not work.

loki, RoF forum is on maintenance ATM...

Thanks.