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#4049601 - 12/12/14 03:20 PM Your Favorite Formation  
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Nietzsche Offline
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Hi Guys.
I'm interested in what kind of Formation you like to fly most, and what Pros & Cons you discovered.

Personally, I favor the "Straight Line" (does the Term "Duckmarch" exist in English?), especially in the later Part of the War.
It's a brilliant defensive / counter-attack Formation: Everyone can change Directions totally unobstructed, and the Flanks are your real Strength. It also adds Unpredictability to the first Phase of the Fight, because you always have some Pilots banking out earlier than others, creating a short Distance between the Planes - so there is always at least one instant Pursuer for the first Enemy Plane attacking.
In Addition, all Planes have an unobstructed Fire-Zone when engaged from the Flanks.

This Formation sure is not first choice, when you are pursuing Bombers, for apparent Reasons.
Another Minus is, that the "Distronic" of the AI with its "I'll check if I didn't run into something every 5 Minutes"-Attidude, requires YOU to do this Checks for all your Mates. Everytime you see someone moving dangerously close to someone, go into a short but steep Dive or a tight Curve, to break up Formation - and let them sort again. Otherwise you almost definetly loose 2 or even more Guys.
A calm and steady Lead is also recommended.

#4049622 - 12/12/14 04:32 PM Re: Your Favorite Formation [Re: Nietzsche]  
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Oh, I suspect this is going to be an interesting thread! I think I will watch this one for awhile! popcorn


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#4049628 - 12/12/14 04:45 PM Re: Your Favorite Formation [Re: Nietzsche]  
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OldHat Offline
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I've been reading my mission logs for a while and found that almost all AI controlled squads (during mid to late 1916) fly in a chevron.

#4049891 - 12/13/14 05:57 AM Re: Your Favorite Formation [Re: Nietzsche]  
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I like the diamond formation, as I can tuck in at the rear and know that no-one will bump into me (although some crazy close-escort Nieuport did on one mission) biggrin

#4049924 - 12/13/14 10:33 AM Re: Your Favorite Formation [Re: Nietzsche]  
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Olham Offline
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So far my Jasta formations were mostly all chevrons - I let them as they came.
Earlier in 1916 we also used a diagonal line from leader (front) to rearmost flyer (rear right);
where only the leader's wingman seemed to make a little chevron by flying left of leader.
I will check out, how other formations feel like.


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#4049939 - 12/13/14 11:37 AM Re: Your Favorite Formation [Re: Nietzsche]  
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High over the Front
Chevron seems best to me for multiple reasons.
The infantry, my old branch, still uses it to this day for manuvering multiple units in a "advance to contact" movement.
And when we would work with tanks they would too. All terrain dependent of course.
Everyone can see well, has an obvious sector for observation, can shoot, and manuver without interference from others if needed. Plus everyone can see the leader and respond to changes in movement direction and still easily keep the formation.

I'll have to pay more attention to all the various options but the best Chevron would be the point aircraft slightly lower with the "wings" stepped up at higher elevations so in sudden quick movements there is no chance of collisions. Not 100% sure if a "stepped up" Chevron is an option in WOFF. The "everyone at the same altitude" Chevron is there of course.

#4050822 - 12/15/14 01:21 PM Re: Your Favorite Formation [Re: Nietzsche]  
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Nietzsche Offline
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@Duke:
On Ground, you are absolutely right, I think: The Chevron makes it hard for anyone to outflank you. But on Ground you have something, that makes these Confrontations differ a lot: Cover.
Modern Air Warfare differs also, because of the extreme Range... you no longer actually see your Enemy - you see some Lights on your Screen... and then you press a Button.
Confrontations in WOFF on the other Hand are more like an armed Race Game - and here, I think, the Chevron isn't the perfect Solution - except for Bombers: A big Chevron is nearly impossible to attack from the rear without being in the Firing Arc of one or more Gunners...

#4050878 - 12/15/14 03:21 PM Re: Your Favorite Formation [Re: Nietzsche]  
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High over the Front
Indeed. BVR weapons and radar do kind of make it a moot point.

#4050958 - 12/15/14 05:40 PM Re: Your Favorite Formation [Re: Nietzsche]  
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busdriver Offline
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The one formation in game and in RL I'd never use is the "Line Astern/Straight Line/Duckwalk."

Prior to getting to the merge (a RL expression taken from the way a radar scope looks once many contacts get close together) a formation gets all the planes moving the same way with some degree of visual mutual support. From a WWI historical and WOFF gameplay aspect, once formations engage, it's pretty much every man for himself. I've not noticed any offensive advantage to any particular formation in WOFF.

So what's my problem with Line Astern? There are a couple of things. IMO it's the worst possible formation defensively. Think about what the pilots are doing. They're concentrating on NOT hitting the guy in front of them. They are not looking around. I would hate to be tail end Charlie (the last guy in the conga line). Nobody is checking behind the formation. Want historical proof? By the start of WWII, RAF Fighter Command had a very structured "play book" of set piece of patrol formations and attacks. The Line Astern was a primary patrol formation. And as long as squadrons flew in Line Astern, tail end Charlie had a very short life span.

As far as it being an excellent counter-attack formation. I'm not convinced of that. Perhaps it is if the attack comes from the beam (the side). If the attack comes from the front you have to wait until the guys in front of you get out of your way....or maybe shoot over their shoulder. If the attack comes from the rear (as a smart bandit would do) then the first indication of a problem would be the sound of gunfire behind you. Or your airplane catching fire if you're tail end Charlie. You're going to either break left or right. You have a 50/50 chance of turning in front of the bandits chasing you down. And if I were put in that position in RL, when I looked behind me it would take me a second or two to process and recognize if the plane right behind me is a bandit or friendly.

There's not a great deal of published information on WWI formations, and nothing I could find about formation once they arrive at the merge. These are the sources I checked, but I'd certainly appreciate any other titles you folks might suggest.
Peter Kilduff Richthofen Beyond The Legend Of The Red Baron and Talking With The Red Baron
Norman Franks Dog-Fight Aerial Tactics Of The Aces Of World War I
RAF Museum Series Vol 7 Fighting In The Air: The Official Combat Technique Instructions For British Fighter Pilots 1916-1945
Mike Spick Fighter Pilot Tactics: The Techniques Of Daylight Air Combat

I think the natural inclination would be to mimic migratory water fowl and fly in the Vee/Vic/Chevron. As you folks have said, it's a deadly defensive formation for two-seaters. It is a bit unwieldy maneuvering a large Vee formation. Cross-over turns, where the guys on the left side switches to the right side when the formation turns left (guys switch sides of the formation during turns) were not practiced or perfected. But it is superior to the Line Astern or Line Abreast for defensive lookout.

When I make formation changes my preference is to fly Echeloned Vees (of three planes). Why? Change of pace. And as an experiment. I'm hoping to find a situation where as Flt Lead my two wingmen stay with me (avoiding a fight) whilst the other Vees engage. The setup I'm looking for is an altitude advantage and a small formation or singleton slightly below us.

I do like this thread, thanks Nietzche. It got me to open up some books I read several years ago...but took me away from some other titles I'm currently reading.

Last edited by busdriver; 12/15/14 05:45 PM. Reason: clarify cross-over turn a little better
#4051448 - 12/16/14 01:28 PM Re: Your Favorite Formation [Re: Nietzsche]  
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Nietzsche Offline
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There is one Question I had in Mind from the Beginning:
Why are these Formations nearly flown "Bumper to Bumper"?
I mean, this is no Traffic Jam, where everyone tries to jump the Queue if you don't drive tight enough...
What is the Advantage of a tight Formation against a loose one, where everyone would keep a Distance of, let's say 200 meters?

#4051478 - 12/16/14 02:08 PM Re: Your Favorite Formation [Re: Nietzsche]  
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Olham Offline
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The WW1 flyers had no radio com, Nietzsche.
They could only communicate via hand signs and flares.
Flares would give any surprise advantage away before an attack, so everyone
needed to see the arm/hand signs of the leader to know what to do.


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#4051577 - 12/16/14 04:55 PM Re: Your Favorite Formation [Re: Nietzsche]  
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Nietzsche Offline
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Ah! Haven't thought about that duh
The Absence of Communication is, what always adds this Moment of Insecurity to the Game...
you all know that:
One Plane suddenly changes Direction and speeds away - and you have no Idea why. Engine Problems? Has he seen something I haven't? Is he attacking... or running away? Has he forgotten his Lunchbox?

#4051584 - 12/16/14 05:04 PM Re: Your Favorite Formation [Re: Nietzsche]  
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Olham Offline
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Once they get startled, you should best perform a turn quickly - it may be just in time, before you get hit by a bullet...


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#4051795 - 12/16/14 11:06 PM Re: Your Favorite Formation [Re: Nietzsche]  
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Beanie Offline
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My favourite formation - is the one where I don't die! I have yet to find that formation?


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