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#4046557 - 12/06/14 12:03 PM
Re: Workshop Settings: Question for the Dev's
[Re: DukeIronHand]
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Olham
Barmy Baron from Berlin
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For the "DiD Campaign" in late 1916 I used "Reginal air activity: Light" so far (before WOFF 2.02 Expansion).
That seemed about right for that time. In 1918 of course, the air activity was much denser; especially the
Entente had many more aircraft and pilots available now.
But you can still adjust it a bit with setting it to "medium" or even "light", when you find it gets too much.
The "Encounters" setting seems to be more about the behaviour of the meeting flights.
Do they attack; always? Or do they sometimes stay high and dry? Do they change tactics; do they fly home?
Cause, you could also force the manager to make them fight every time (which IMHO wouldn't be "realistic").
Vice-President of the BOC (Barmy OFFers Club)
Member of the 'Albatros Aviators Club' - "We know how to die with Style!"
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#4046560 - 12/06/14 12:09 PM
Re: Workshop Settings: Question for the Dev's
[Re: Olham]
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DukeIronHand
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The "Encounters" setting seems to be more about the behaviour of the meeting flights.
Do they attack; always? Or do they sometimes stay high and dry? Do they change tactics; do they fly home?
Cause, you could also force the manager to make them fight every time (which IMHO wouldn't be "realistic").
Well that is interesting if true. Then I have to wonder about the relationship between "Encounters" and "AI Always Engages" We did fly by a group of DFW's,, and I thought for sure the AI flight leader would attack but he did not. In "his" defense they were probably at least a 1,000' higher than us so an engagement may have not been practical in "his" mind. I am not always so smart when I lead perhaps!
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#4046747 - 12/06/14 08:43 PM
Re: Workshop Settings: Question for the Dev's
[Re: DukeIronHand]
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DukeIronHand
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I'm just guessing here but taking all things into account, as I understand them anyway, I would think that High would be the most realistic as a "Regional Air Setting" with the emphasis on the "Regional."
Last edited by DukeIronHand; 12/06/14 08:44 PM.
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#4047263 - 12/07/14 11:46 PM
Re: Workshop Settings: Question for the Dev's
[Re: DukeIronHand]
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KodiakJac
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This is a real vague generalization, but if you are getting 1 kill for every 3 or 4 sorites you fly you are pretty close to the types of numbers the really hot aces like MVR posted over their WWI career. I think MVR had about 400 sorties for his 80 kills, and Rene Fonck about 350 sorties to get 75 kills (I'm sure someone else could provide the actual numbers, but that is what memory serves me).
So they were doing a whole lot of flying around on "no contact" missions and/or engagements without resolve in reality. Also, regarding marksmanship, I read where MVR said it took approximately 800 of his 1000 rounds for a typical victory since the planes were mostly empty space and unless you hit an engine or a pilot they would often fly off with just a bunch of holes in their plane or a few broken parts but still airworthy.
Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up! Can you say "JABO!" 
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#4047267 - 12/07/14 11:56 PM
Re: Workshop Settings: Question for the Dev's
[Re: DukeIronHand]
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DukeIronHand
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You think MvR did 400 combat sorties as a single seat Flieger?
I really have no clue but am curious now.
I guess when you read the books they don't mention, or talk a lot about, "boring" no-contact combat sorties.
JFM? Any info on this?
EDIT: And as a part 2 MvR seemed more that willing to continue shooting into, generally speaking, fairly obvious planes that were going down to get a more "decisive" result. Presumably for confirmation purposes apparently. I think that helps explain his high ammo useage.
Last edited by DukeIronHand; 12/08/14 12:05 AM.
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#4048342 - 12/09/14 11:24 PM
Re: Workshop Settings: Question for the Dev's
[Re: 77_Scout]
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77_Scout
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I'd like to keep this simple ... which 'regional air activity' setting best recreates a historical amount of traffic/flights (low, medium, or high?).
Basically, in the area of my mission I'd like roughly the same number of planes to be in the air as would have been flying in real life. Which setting will get me closest to that goal?
I can't discern it directly from WM's new post in the 'sticky' section, but reading between the lines I get the impression the answer to my question is 'high'?? I get the impression 'low' and 'medium' settings are provided for use with lower powered computers (??), but I could easily be misinterpreting what was said.
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#4048979 - 12/11/14 04:39 AM
Re: Workshop Settings: Question for the Dev's
[Re: DukeIronHand]
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Joined: Dec 2013
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KodiakJac
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I found some Sorties/Victory data on some of the leading aces. I try to keep my sortie to victory ratio around 3 or 4 to 1 to try to keep things more realistic. But as you can see below it varied quite a bit from ace to ace:
Sorties/Victories
232-80 Manfred von Richthofen
609-75 Rene Fonck
311-72 Billy Bishop
145-44 Albert Ball
305-26 Eddie Rickenbacker
These guys spent a lot of time just flying around seeing nothing or dots they couldn't catch in real life. So I fiddle with the settings: If I don't have a fight for 3 or 4 sorties I amp it up. If I start getting fights every sortie I reduce the settings as it will vary on the region you are flying in and the time period.
Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up! Can you say "JABO!"
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#4049016 - 12/11/14 09:28 AM
Re: Workshop Settings: Question for the Dev's
[Re: KodiakJac]
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DukeIronHand
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I found some Sorties/Victory data on some of the leading aces. I try to keep my sortie to victory ratio around 3 or 4 to 1 to try to keep things more realistic. But as you can see below it varied quite a bit from ace to ace:
Sorties/Victories
232-80 Manfred von Richthofen
609-75 Rene Fonck
311-72 Billy Bishop
145-44 Albert Ball
305-26 Eddie Rickenbacker
These guys spent a lot of time just flying around seeing nothing or dots they couldn't catch in real life. So I fiddle with the settings: If I don't have a fight for 3 or 4 sorties I amp it up. If I start getting fights every sortie I reduce the settings as it will vary on the region you are flying in and the time period. Nice Bucksnort and thanks for the numbers. Very interesting. If I may ask where did they come from? Also interesting to me is Rickenbacker's relatively high sortie rate. I read his book and he mentions some no contact flights but he was also away from the front, twice I believe, for ear problems. Obviously a "busy beaver" when he was with the 94th.
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#4049021 - 12/11/14 10:06 AM
Re: Workshop Settings: Question for the Dev's
[Re: DukeIronHand]
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Creaghorn
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N�rnberg Frankonia
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Honestly I don't believe the numbers are correct. I don't think that anyone who served longer periods to have less than 600 hours flight, which is IMO the better indicator anyway, than sorties.
Rickenbacker in his couple weeks/months of combat having more sorties than MvrR? I doubt it. I think the numbers of Fonck rather reflect correct numbers. And of the 95% non-aces the victory/sorties rate is way lower of course anyway. E.G. Udet needed about 16 flighthours for each victory in average. Anyway, are you sure those numbers are the overall number of sorties, or maybe rather sorties with enemy contact, or where enemies were spotted?
If you set airactivity to medium or low, and also enemy engaging rate to realistic, then you won't need to skip days on purpose. You just fly your missions as they come and try to survive, not attacking everything you see, only attacking when the leader wants you to attack, and if you are the leader, not playing Frank Luke Gunho style. Of course without aids. If you survive long enough, your ratio will be about the one you are looking for.
Last edited by Creaghorn; 12/11/14 10:07 AM.
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#4049026 - 12/11/14 10:18 AM
Re: Workshop Settings: Question for the Dev's
[Re: DukeIronHand]
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,485
Winding Man
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We have been round and round this discussion so many times - we have had it both harder and easier than it is at the moment and still we had moaners.
We have added a myriad of settings to help each user get to his nirvana and as Creaghorn says - its quite possible with the current setup.
However what we cannot do is instill the reality of WAR into the player, that would make every man try to preserve what is most precious to him - his life and to return to ones loved ones intact.
We cannot create the fatigue, the cold, the weariness that sets in when flying these primitive machines out to what was for many certain death....if not from the enemy then from failure of ones own machine or even pilot error.
In the end its but a game and the player can be as reckless as he wants.
So you can all analyse and compare stats and outcomes from WOFF with history... to death - what is missing is the high probability of YOUR DEATH and how you would behave if you really did fly in WW1....
And that you can only do yourselves and even then only to a limited degree because you all know you will not really die.
We did discuss having the option in workshops that if you die in WOFF your PC is reformatted....
WM
OBD Software
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#4049061 - 12/11/14 12:00 PM
Re: Workshop Settings: Question for the Dev's
[Re: Winding Man]
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Olham
Barmy Baron from Berlin
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So you can all analyse and compare stats and outcomes from WOFF with history... to death -
what is missing is the high probability of YOUR DEATH and how you would behave if you really did fly in WW1....
And that you can only do yourselves and even then only to a limited degree because you all know you will not really die.
We did discuss having the option in workshops that if you die in WOFF your PC is reformatted....
Good one! Yeah, it's the hardest bit to imagine: how we would act, if we could really get hit, if we would half freeze to stone, if we suffered from a lack of oxygene, get a bullet through our hand, tigh, or face...
Vice-President of the BOC (Barmy OFFers Club)
Member of the 'Albatros Aviators Club' - "We know how to die with Style!"
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#4049069 - 12/11/14 12:34 PM
Re: Workshop Settings: Question for the Dev's
[Re: Winding Man]
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DukeIronHand
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We have been round and round this discussion so many times - we have had it both harder and easier than it is at the moment and still we had moaners.
We have added a myriad of settings to help each user get to his nirvana and as Creaghorn says - its quite possible with the current setup.
However what we cannot do is instill the reality of WAR into the player, that would make every man try to preserve what is most precious to him - his life and to return to ones loved ones intact.
We cannot create the fatigue, the cold, the weariness that sets in when flying these primitive machines out to what was for many certain death....if not from the enemy then from failure of ones own machine or even pilot error.
In the end its but a game and the player can be as reckless as he wants.
So you can all analyse and compare stats and outcomes from WOFF with history... to death - what is missing is the high probability of YOUR DEATH and how you would behave if you really did fly in WW1....
And that you can only do yourselves and even then only to a limited degree because you all know you will not really die.
We did discuss having the option in workshops that if you die in WOFF your PC is reformatted....
WM
Don't change a thing WM! WOFF is awsum as is sir.
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#4049110 - 12/11/14 02:16 PM
Re: Workshop Settings: Question for the Dev's
[Re: DukeIronHand]
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,485
Winding Man
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We have been round and round this discussion so many times - we have had it both harder and easier than it is at the moment and still we had moaners.
We have added a myriad of settings to help each user get to his nirvana and as Creaghorn says - its quite possible with the current setup.
However what we cannot do is instill the reality of WAR into the player, that would make every man try to preserve what is most precious to him - his life and to return to ones loved ones intact.
We cannot create the fatigue, the cold, the weariness that sets in when flying these primitive machines out to what was for many certain death....if not from the enemy then from failure of ones own machine or even pilot error.
In the end its but a game and the player can be as reckless as he wants.
So you can all analyse and compare stats and outcomes from WOFF with history... to death - what is missing is the high probability of YOUR DEATH and how you would behave if you really did fly in WW1....
And that you can only do yourselves and even then only to a limited degree because you all know you will not really die.
We did discuss having the option in workshops that if you die in WOFF your PC is reformatted....
WM
Don't change a thing WM! WOFF is awsum as is sir. No worries - there is ample scope in the workshops for all users we believe! Pleased you are enjoying it. WM
OBD Software
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#4049153 - 12/11/14 03:30 PM
Re: Workshop Settings: Question for the Dev's
[Re: Winding Man]
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,595
OldHat
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We have added a myriad of settings to help each user get to his nirvana ......
If you cram any more settings in the workshop I'll need a computer science diploma to figure it out.
In the end its but a game and the player can be as reckless as he wants.
Wait.... WOFF is a GAME?!
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#4049216 - 12/11/14 05:47 PM
Re: Workshop Settings: Question for the Dev's
[Re: Winding Man]
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 149
rockmedic109
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California
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We have been round and round this discussion so many times - we have had it both harder and easier than it is at the moment and still we had moaners.
We have added a myriad of settings to help each user get to his nirvana and as Creaghorn says - its quite possible with the current setup.
However what we cannot do is instill the reality of WAR into the player, that would make every man try to preserve what is most precious to him - his life and to return to ones loved ones intact.
We cannot create the fatigue, the cold, the weariness that sets in when flying these primitive machines out to what was for many certain death....if not from the enemy then from failure of ones own machine or even pilot error.
In the end its but a game and the player can be as reckless as he wants.
So you can all analyse and compare stats and outcomes from WOFF with history... to death - what is missing is the high probability of YOUR DEATH and how you would behave if you really did fly in WW1....
And that you can only do yourselves and even then only to a limited degree because you all know you will not really die.
We did discuss having the option in workshops that if you die in WOFF your PC is reformatted....
WM
You've done a great job of creating numerous settings to suit the various rigs that we employ and numerous settings to allow us to fine tune the game to our desire. Certainly the best job of any WWI flight sim ever yet conceived. I've found that I play much more cautiously than I have in prior games. Maybe because I am older. One thing I've noticed over the various sims I've played is that I will get up to a certain number of kills and then I will make an absolutely stupid numbskull error and get my pilot killed. I will know it is stupid when I do it and I will do it anyway. Flight Sim Fatigue Syndrome? Please do not take anything I write or say as "moaning". There might be a couple of minor details that I'd like to see but they are trivial and possibly not obtainable given the framework you have to work with. And they would only be personal preference for immersion purposes. You've created the best WWI Flight Sim on the market and it is not likely to be dislodged from this pedestal any time soon. Thank You Stephen E Hood
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#4049222 - 12/11/14 05:56 PM
Re: Workshop Settings: Question for the Dev's
[Re: Creaghorn]
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,398
KodiakJac
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Anyway, are you sure those numbers are the overall number of sorties, or maybe rather sorties with enemy contact, or where enemies were spotted? Hi Creaghorn, I'm not sure at all...lol I got these numbers from a friend who collects this type of info. He's been collecting this data from all sorts of contributors for about 30 years, so the data is only as good as the contributors. For instance, I gave him the numbers including individual victory detail on Lanoe Hawker from a book I've got on him. So I was just tossing those numbers out there for discussion, and like you, I suspect the sortie count is low on some of the pilots, although Albert Ball's sortie count looks reasonable as he was only on active scout duty for about 120 days (not including his flying in a recon role) for the entirety of his career. No "moaning" here either. I appreciate that I can adjust the engagement opportunities to my liking in WOFF, a wonderul feature! Thanks! Buck
Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up! Can you say "JABO!"
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#4049257 - 12/11/14 07:14 PM
Re: Workshop Settings: Question for the Dev's
[Re: DukeIronHand]
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,993
Robert_Wiggins
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
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Glad we got that all settled then.
The "refomat PC on WOFF death" feature had me a little worried. Kind of like your father warning you that he will take the car keys away from you the first time you get a dent in the fender!! 
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
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CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4
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#4049274 - 12/11/14 07:41 PM
Re: Workshop Settings: Question for the Dev's
[Re: DukeIronHand]
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,133
77_Scout
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Yep, if folks want more or less action, they can fiddle to their hearts content (WOFF is very flexible, one of its great attributes, no need for any moaning!). For me, it would just be nice to know what a semi-historical starting point is regarding 'regional air activity'. My main interest is simply having the correct (ballpark) number of airplanes in the sky on a given mission. One of the three regional-air-activities settings is going be best for getting this semi-historical number of planes in the air, and I really hope to one day know which would be considered by the developers as 'most historical' (and I'll take it from there, no moaning  ).
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#4050018 - 12/13/14 04:16 PM
Re: Workshop Settings: Question for the Dev's
[Re: DukeIronHand]
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,739
Olham
Barmy Baron from Berlin
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Just shot down 2 Camels, and both were flamers (not that I would mind... ). The first went down in flames; the second literally exploded. So, maybe they go up in flames easier now. But that is by far more realistic than all the breaking-apart aircraft I see in "another sim" - where the debries even hit me and demolish my prop. The aces wouldn't have said "Go closer!" if that had happened. 
Vice-President of the BOC (Barmy OFFers Club)
Member of the 'Albatros Aviators Club' - "We know how to die with Style!"
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#4051764 - 12/16/14 09:59 PM
Re: Workshop Settings: Question for the Dev's
[Re: Polovski]
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,133
77_Scout
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The settings we set WOFF too are what we think it should be, given what we know of the mechanics behind it all. Thanks Pol. WOFF installs with 'regional air activity' set to medium, so I'll stick with that.
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