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#4040524 - 11/24/14 10:14 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Chucky]  
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ChiefRedCloud Offline
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Originally Posted By: Chucky
Originally Posted By: ChiefRedCloud
If you still fly BoS, then I'll see you in those chilly skies. Now I'm off to decorate my Christmas Tree with my wife.
Chief


Is she going right at the top? biggrin


I always put her at the tip top as she is always in my worthless flight simming life .... LOL

Chief


R.E.D. (Retired Extremely Dangerous
#4040535 - 11/24/14 10:24 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Force10]  
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This was taken at 4:30 pm EST ...



Chief

Last edited by ChiefRedCloud; 11/24/14 10:25 PM.

R.E.D. (Retired Extremely Dangerous
#4040558 - 11/24/14 11:01 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Force10]  
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…and this was taken 1 hour later….what's your point?




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#4040592 - 11/25/14 12:25 AM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: nibbio]  
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Originally Posted By: nibbio
Originally Posted By: Requiem

The irony about that reason for removing the F11 camera is that it doesn't stop you being able to look inside things anyway. I took this screenshot just now. You can do this for any object, so hopefully in time they bring it back so movie makers can use it again as it is a great camera.


I just read the original post from Loft on the F11 key issue, answering a request from Requiem (post #672):

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/7-questions-developers/page-17

Posted 06 May 2014 - 14:12

SYN_Requiem, on 06 May 2014 - 15:09, said:

Cheers mate, I just wanted you to know that the F11 camera is really important because it is the only camera which isn't linked to an object and has a freedom of movement to it. Many people have trouble implementing what they read in books into a three dimensional environment when they get in the plane, so this ability to visualise all the maneuvers they read about from a stationary perspective really helps in their understanding. For me to say this camera view is essential for what I do is an understatement salute

=FB=LOFT

Bat some users use this camera to blame us. They use it to travel inside objects and ets. This is why we remove this camera during early stage. Strange but then you start to do something, some people start to hate you only because you do something.


I hope that the stated reason has nothing to do with the real reason, or else these guys are really insecure and paranoid about their project...


One of the things that I have noticed in this sim is that from the beginning the devs have tried to take steps to thwart cheats ..... The skins situation in RoF and in BoS was largely done like that to prevent cheating (remember reading that .. I cannot remember exactly where but I did read it..) some jerk putting florescent skins on the enemy planes.. the same can be said for all the trims not being on axii... I think that this approach is wrong because no matter what you do there will always ALWAYS be folks who will game the game. I never have been fond of the term "cheat" because I always felt it got tossed around way too much. before I flew in IL2 And came to the UBI forums I had no idea what "trim on a slider" was but I never saw it as a cheat as long as anyone with a HOTAS could do it.


Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
#4040635 - 11/25/14 01:44 AM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Force10]  
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In the latest incarnation of how to shoot oneself in the foot

The 1.006 update broke my graphics settings...I had finally achieved fluid smooth framerates and keeping my eyes averted from the XP and shallowness of the SP Campaign...I was actually experiencing moments of enjoyment.

Now this.

Forced updates which introduce bugs which make the game a stutter fest and unplayable undoing hours of experimentation and tweaking

And no way to revert right?

yeah baby...let's have the worst of all worlds here

In the bad old days when a patch was pushed out you had the option to not apply it and take a wait and see approach.

Not now.....you will take this patch whether it breaks playability for you or not.

These guys seem determined to ruin what occasional glimmers of hope this game provides.

Stop the damn mandatory updates unless it is for online MP where everyone has to be on the same page!


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#4040748 - 11/25/14 09:39 AM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Force10]  
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The only longevity this dead game appears to have is the flogging of its corpse. Did the autopsies of BoP and WoP go on this long?

Even if the XP locks were done away with, even if the biased FMs and shallow DMs were addressed, we'd still have the incapable DN engine and unusable ME to contend with, and as that alone killed RoF MP I see no reason why BoS could or would survive it.

The game is a monumental failure and just needs to be buried and the mourners to leave the cemetary and get on with their lives.

In my opinion.


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#4040790 - 11/25/14 12:45 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Force10]  
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Lol... wishful thinking on your part no doubt. Look at it this way... the "decomposing corpse" of BoS will give some of you all kinds of things to talk about... Just don't be startled when that "corpse" gets up and flies away... pilot


Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
#4040839 - 11/25/14 01:50 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: WernerVoss]  
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Originally Posted By: WernerVoss
just needs to be buried and the mourners to leave the cemetary and get on with their lives.


Indeed. Why are you still here?

#4040873 - 11/25/14 02:36 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Force10]  
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30 compressions, two breaths... rinse and repeat


“Hypocrisy in anything whatever may deceive the cleverest and most penetrating man, but the least wide-awake of children recognizes it, and is revolted by it, however ingeniously it may be disguised.”

Leo Tolstoy, Anna Karenina
#4040911 - 11/25/14 03:15 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Wolf_Rider]  
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Master Offline
meh
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Originally Posted By: Wolf_Rider
30 compressions, two breaths... rinse and repeat


Whoa now, I'm going to need you to back away from the corpse.

In Egypt they can still have *** with the corpse until it is room temperature! So unless you are going to have your way I am going to need you to back away and let someone else in there.

#4040982 - 11/25/14 05:11 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Force10]  
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Whenever I see BOS running I ask to myself, Is it a bird? is it superman?....No it is just a failed WT and a failed IL2 series.

#4041210 - 11/25/14 11:24 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Bearcat99]  
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Originally Posted By: Bearcat99

One of the things that I have noticed in this sim is that from the beginning the devs have tried to take steps to thwart cheats ..... The skins situation in RoF and in BoS was largely done like that to prevent cheating (remember reading that .. I cannot remember exactly where but I did read it..) some jerk putting florescent skins on the enemy planes.. the same can be said for all the trims not being on axii... I think that this approach is wrong because no matter what you do there will always ALWAYS be folks who will game the game. I never have been fond of the term "cheat" because I always felt it got tossed around way too much. before I flew in IL2 And came to the UBI forums I had no idea what "trim on a slider" was but I never saw it as a cheat as long as anyone with a HOTAS could do it.
I think this touches the heart of the matter. It does appear that BOS was made with competitive MP in mind, and when I read about some of the design decisions, I hear echoes of the IL2 UBI forums from back in the day. ROF originally had a similar focus (attested by the in-game "leaderboards" which most people find useless), but it was recognized that its perspective had to be broadened if it wanted to reach longer-lasting and wider attention. Hopefully BOS will come around, too, otherwise it may end up with the likes of MS Flight.

Last edited by Johan217; 11/25/14 11:25 PM.

Undercarriage lever a bit sticky was it, Sir?
#4041250 - 11/26/14 12:05 AM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Force10]  
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ChiefRedCloud Offline
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Originally Posted By: Force10
…and this was taken 1 hour later….what's your point?





I'd rather ask what your point is or what your trying to establish here with a comparison between a flight sim and a MMO? That numbers online are low at times? I've seen sparse or low numbers on nearly every Flight sim server at times. And the simple fact that the Dev's are still struggling with the online servers might have something to do with this.

I really do not see what your trying to accomplish with this comparison? Do you just want to have everyone agree that you are right and BoS is a BAD product? Is that it? I don't mean to be short or incur your wrath on this but seriously, what is the agenda here?

Chief


R.E.D. (Retired Extremely Dangerous
#4041347 - 11/26/14 04:09 AM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: ChiefRedCloud]  
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Force10 Offline
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Originally Posted By: ChiefRedCloud

I'd rather ask what your point is or what your trying to establish here with a comparison between a flight sim and a MMO? That numbers online are low at times? I've seen sparse or low numbers on nearly every Flight sim server at times. And the simple fact that the Dev's are still struggling with the online servers might have something to do with this.

I really do not see what your trying to accomplish with this comparison? Do you just want to have everyone agree that you are right and BoS is a BAD product? Is that it? I don't mean to be short or incur your wrath on this but seriously, what is the agenda here?

Chief


Here's my point (if you read my first post...you might understand) Clearly they were trying to "arcade" it up to please someone other then your typical IL-2 fan. The only way it makes sense to piss off your fan base and still be successful is if your going for a larger base of players. Hmmmm....what other possible base of players that likes a more arcade type of game that has consistent numbers in the thousands could they have been going after? Your denial of them trying to go after the more arcade market is laughable and is more or less part of the "defend at all costs" montra of a payed forum lacky. (not saying you are)

With the above numbers it's clear that their "vision" failed and that they should look for salvation by winning back the hardcore crowd. I'm sure you would disagree...but average online numbers in the 30'-60s' isn't what they were hoping for.

So...to wrap up your question...my "agenda" is for the developers to forget about the arcade WT players and try to win back their core fans...the consistently low numbers say it's the thing to do.


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#4041348 - 11/26/14 04:12 AM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: ChiefRedCloud]  
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Originally Posted By: ChiefRedCloud


I'd rather ask what your point is or what your trying to establish here with a comparison between a flight sim and a MMO? That numbers online are low at times? I've seen sparse or low numbers on nearly every Flight sim server at times. And the simple fact that the Dev's are still struggling with the online servers might have something to do with this.

I really do not see what your trying to accomplish with this comparison? Do you just want to have everyone agree that you are right and BoS is a BAD product? Is that it? I don't mean to be short or incur your wrath on this but seriously, what is the agenda here?

Chief


I am going to take a shot in the dark here......maybe it has to do with the freekin topic of this thread that you are posting in?

"It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed..."

Yeah, that has to be it.

What about your second question? Well considering the developers went all xp/unlock, pilot level, simple way point system, horrible campaign, online at all times route, in order to get "fresh blood" into more a sim-like game (like WT folks) it has a lot to do with a comparison. The developers calling simmers "dumb" and not the ones that they are targeting seems not be working in their favor.

Agenda? This is a forum right? An area to discuss BoS? What is YOUR agenda then? What do you hope to accomplish by your post?

Last edited by lokitexas; 11/26/14 04:12 AM.
#4041431 - 11/26/14 10:46 AM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Force10]  
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WhoCares Offline
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You draw your conclusion one month after release, while the game still costs >50$, and you are surprised that the WT crowd is not flodding the BoS servers?!
As I see it, the plan to attract WT players (or any other casual gamer with a generalo interest in the genre) is much more long-term. First we need the cheap BoS versions, 10-20$ max., much more likely to get attention from those players for such a version. A low entry investment, with unlocks for equipment and planes, but with the chance that some get hooked and spend more for future expansions that can't be unlocked.
But even then don't expect that the player numbers on the servers rise by 100% per day. Just hope for a slow trickle over months and years; we can just hope, as for sure this community needs fresh blood, in numbers an attitude...

Last edited by WhoCares; 11/26/14 12:57 PM.
#4041450 - 11/26/14 11:34 AM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Force10]  
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Naunton Beauchamp Worcestershi...
One has to look at the comparison of online figures objectively.
Perhaps the OP looked at both games at an off-peak time.
The numbers of WT players including those with direct connection to the servers is considerably many times higher than just the Steam figures shown.
A high proportion of those players on WT will be playing Ground Forces.
From my experience in WT of those total numbers, probably less than 1% are playing 'simulation mode'.
A high proportion of which, after a tentative foray into 'Sim' from the other two simpler modes, get disillusioned after a short time and give up either due to their own lack of experience and will to improve, or the more ridiculous aspects of the game apparent in 'Sim' mode such as FM's (particularly bombers), AI behaviour and other niggles too numerous to mention.

Personally I have given up the aviation side of things and just have a bash at GF for a bit of fun.
I don't have BoS, so cannot make a comparison between the two.



#4041463 - 11/26/14 12:32 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Master

Originally Posted By: Wolf_Rider
30 compressions, two breaths... rinse and repeat


Whoa now, ~




I hope you're talking CPR there, in your reply to me, 'cause I was - "CardioPulmonary Resuscitation" for the game...
(still can't figure how, in your reference to Egypt, one would continue to be able to perform cpr on a person who's temperature was way below normal... ie a corpse)

Last edited by Wolf_Rider; 11/26/14 12:40 PM.

“Hypocrisy in anything whatever may deceive the cleverest and most penetrating man, but the least wide-awake of children recognizes it, and is revolted by it, however ingeniously it may be disguised.”

Leo Tolstoy, Anna Karenina
#4041589 - 11/26/14 03:49 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Force10]  
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I may be thicker than a whale omelette at times but how did they expect to attract the WT crowd in the sort of numbers they hoped?

On one hand you have a free-to-play game with grinding and unlocks and on the other you have a $60-$100 game with grinding and unlocks.

I can certainly see small numbers wanting to advance to something more 'realistic' but not in droves.


EV's are the Devils matchbox.
#4041610 - 11/26/14 04:12 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Force10]  
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WhoCares Offline
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I don't think it is 1C/777 stating they want to attract the WT crowd at the current state and price, but it is people here "extrapolating" features like unlocks as means to attract them. Conjecture, hyperbole, the usual stuff.
No doubt 1C/777 would want a share of them, why wouldn't they??? But as I said above as well, it might need a considerable price drop, maybe also a free demo with two planes like RoF, with the option to unlock two or four more planes.
I'd like to see more players, doesn't matter where they come from. I paid post-release a price that I deemed worth it, and I don't regret it. I don't care how much the next guy pays, so if there is a 10$ pack tomorrow, reduced in features or not, doesn't affect me, except for more players online, which isn't a bad thing at all.

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