Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 4 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
#4039408 - 11/22/14 03:52 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Force10]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,213
Trooper117 Offline
Hotshot
Trooper117  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,213
UK
You can run, but you can't hide.... not from Bish anyway smile

#4039416 - 11/22/14 04:18 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Trooper117]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,179
bisher Offline
I'll be your Huckleberry
bisher  Offline
I'll be your Huckleberry
Veteran

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,179
Manitoba, Canada
Originally Posted By: Trooper117
You can run, but you can't hide.... not from Bish anyway smile


lol Trooper biggrin

#4039428 - 11/22/14 04:40 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: ChiefRedCloud]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 683
dburne Offline
Member
dburne  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 683
Originally Posted By: ChiefRedCloud
The Dservers have not been finalized, the Mission Editors have not been finalized or released. And till they are, you will see large fluxions in online play. We at New Wings believe enough in BoS to have pledged to put up servers ourselves as soon as we can.


This I have trouble understanding.
First, they gave the ME to a select few, that they felt could handle it. Mostly guys from Syndicate I suspect, I know the Eagles Nest guys had it for a while anyway. Heck Aborted Man even used it to design missions for their US Eagles Nest server, and he had never even used the ROF ME before...

Now, them delaying release of the ME led some to incorrectly assume, that 777 was developing a better ME for BOS, like a better more user friendly GUI. However when talk was mentioned of that, Jason definitely chimed in and made it clear, that there would be no improvements to the ME for BOS, over the ME for ROF, and if folks wanted to get a feel for it, they should try the ROF ME.

So in this case, why is the ME not being released, why was it not released with the official release of the game?

I am just curious really, as I have no skin in the ME game, I have neither the skills or the time to learn it, so I would only maybe be benefitting as a single player from some user created missions/campaigns, though I have yet to see even how that might work. I think it is apparent that users are not going to simply be able to create missions, or string them together into a campaign, and upload them for users to download at will.


Don

EVGA X-79 Dark MB|I-7 4820K@4.50 GHz|EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3|16GB Corsair Dominator PC2133 Ram|Oculus Rift CV1|Virpil T-50 stick, Warthog throttle|MFG Crosswind Pedals
#4039457 - 11/22/14 06:04 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: bisher]  
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,398
KodiakJac Offline
Member
KodiakJac  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,398
USA
Originally Posted By: bisher
ChiefRedCloud. I read your review at metacritic smile


At least his sales pitch is to the WarThunder crowd and not serious simmers winkngrin


Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up!
Can you say "JABO!" thumbsup
#4039521 - 11/22/14 08:58 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: ChiefRedCloud]  
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,079
Blade_Meister Offline
Member
Blade_Meister  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,079
Atlanta, GA, USA
Originally Posted By: ChiefRedCloud

But as much as I think Loft making his frustrations (with a few voices) know to all was wrong, I can almost see his point. Can you imagine putting your heart and soul into something along with long tedious hours and then be heaped with seemingly tons of HATE mail or threads? I must say that even I might consider throwing in the towel.

Chief


I can see where his(Loft) frustration would be huge, but it was his or their decision to take BOS where most customers did not want it to go. The resulting reactions, whether good or bad are ultimately of Lofts making. It is still his or their decision to not make 2 simple changes that might turn this around for them, and buy them the time to actually have a decent active player base while they incorporate more of their plan to expand BOS and get the community development going with the FMB and player made skins. IMHO, I keep thinking that they(Loft & 1c/777) think this will all go away given enough time and BOS will be a success, but what I see and read that is happening is that people are just stopping use of BOS and moving on to other sims with a slight hope that BOS will change and be better later on. That doesn't seem to me to be a good plan to actually make BOS be a success. Again IMHO. taz

S!Blade<><

#4039762 - 11/23/14 02:10 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: SYN_Haashashin]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 88
Jaws2002 Offline
Junior Member
Jaws2002  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 88
Ontario, Canada.
Originally Posted By: SYN_Haashashin
[quote=Force10]

About your statement, 1 month after release and yesterday I saw a complete WT squadron, NN I think it was, flying BoS in our server.



If you are talking about the French squad NN, they are an old Il-2 squad. Been playing il2 since the release, so they are far from WT type customer, the BOS developers had in mind when they planed this stunt.

And it's pretty obvious they failed miserably to capture that crowd.

Last edited by Jaws2002; 11/23/14 02:11 PM.
#4039785 - 11/23/14 02:58 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: dburne]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 88
Jaws2002 Offline
Junior Member
Jaws2002  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 88
Ontario, Canada.
Originally Posted By: DBurnette
Originally Posted By: ChiefRedCloud
The Dservers have not been finalized, the Mission Editors have not been finalized or released. And till they are, you will see large fluxions in online play. We at New Wings believe enough in BoS to have pledged to put up servers ourselves as soon as we can.


This I have trouble understanding.
First, they gave the ME to a select few, that they felt could handle it. Mostly guys from Syndicate I suspect, I know the Eagles Nest guys had it for a while anyway. Heck Aborted Man even used it to design missions for their US Eagles Nest server, and he had never even used the ROF ME before...

Now, them delaying release of the ME led some to incorrectly assume, that 777 was developing a better ME for BOS, like a better more user friendly GUI. However when talk was mentioned of that, Jason definitely chimed in and made it clear, that there would be no improvements to the ME for BOS, over the ME for ROF, and if folks wanted to get a feel for it, they should try the ROF ME.

So in this case, why is the ME not being released, why was it not released with the official release of the game?

I am just curious really, as I have no skin in the ME game, I have neither the skills or the time to learn it, so I would only maybe be benefitting as a single player from some user created missions/campaigns, though I have yet to see even how that might work. I think it is apparent that users are not going to simply be able to create missions, or string them together into a campaign, and upload them for users to download at will.


I have a pretty good idea why the mission builder was only given to select few.
You have to look at some of the discussions from the beginning, when the game was announced.
First they said the game will come from the start with the rof ME.
Some people complained about the shortcomings of rof engine and in particular about the limited numbers of objects/aircraft/units it could handle. The developers said the engine will be improved and BOS will be much better in this respect than rof.
Some people said, they can't wait to get their hands on the mission editor, to see if that's true.
Then the developers announced that ME will only be release to select people, they trust, after signing an agreement. They didn't want anyone stressing the engine, or showing it's limits.
First I didn't think they did it because of this, but after loft explained why they removed the f11 view (the only camera in game not bound to anything), it all makes sense. They removed the free moving camera because some guy looked inside of a plane with it and posted a screen shot on the forum.
They were very insecure, and still are about their game, and don't want anyone to explore any part of the game they are not confident about.
I'm pretty sure this is why the ME was not released to the public .

#4039868 - 11/23/14 06:32 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Force10]  
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 240
Wolf_Rider Offline
Member
Wolf_Rider  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 240
Australia
makes more sense if you want the 'mission pack' market cornered


“Hypocrisy in anything whatever may deceive the cleverest and most penetrating man, but the least wide-awake of children recognizes it, and is revolted by it, however ingeniously it may be disguised.”

Leo Tolstoy, Anna Karenina
#4040187 - 11/24/14 01:29 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Force10]  
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 565
gx007 Offline
Member
gx007  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 565
Menifee, CA
Originally Posted By: Force10

Well…here we are a month after release and the numbers don't lie. Here's a couple of screens from a few minutes ago:



...and here is War Thunder at the same time:




If you can describe your average players online with 2 digits…it's pretty clear that you didn't hit the target you were going for. This game's possible salvation lies with trying to get the harder core players back. No amount of patches will be "ground breaking" enough to get WT players to come over so you might as well try to please one side instead of trying to go for both.

The sad thing is that I don't think Loft is ever going to admit that his vision has failed…and he is going to ride this thing into the ground rather then show the maturity to admit it wasn't a good decision and fix it.

Just my opinion of course...


These are great WT player numbers.

I can see why more developers are pursuing this business model, though I too don't like the grind ladder.

#4040191 - 11/24/14 01:40 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Jaws2002]  
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 133
Requiem Offline
Member
Requiem  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 133
Originally Posted By: Jaws2002

I have a pretty good idea why the mission builder was only given to select few.
You have to look at some of the discussions from the beginning, when the game was announced.
First they said the game will come from the start with the rof ME.
Some people complained about the shortcomings of rof engine and in particular about the limited numbers of objects/aircraft/units it could handle. The developers said the engine will be improved and BOS will be much better in this respect than rof.
Some people said, they can't wait to get their hands on the mission editor, to see if that's true.
Then the developers announced that ME will only be release to select people, they trust, after signing an agreement. They didn't want anyone stressing the engine, or showing it's limits.
First I didn't think they did it because of this, but after loft explained why they removed the f11 view (the only camera in game not bound to anything), it all makes sense. They removed the free moving camera because some guy looked inside of a plane with it and posted a screen shot on the forum.
They were very insecure, and still are about their game, and don't want anyone to explore any part of the game they are not confident about.
I'm pretty sure this is why the ME was not released to the public .


The irony about that reason for removing the F11 camera is that it doesn't stop you being able to look inside things anyway. I took this screenshot just now. You can do this for any object, so hopefully in time they bring it back so movie makers can use it again as it is a great camera.


#4040243 - 11/24/14 02:50 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Requiem]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 676
nibbio Offline
Member
nibbio  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 676
Italy
Originally Posted By: Requiem


The irony about that reason for removing the F11 camera is that it doesn't stop you being able to look inside things anyway. I took this screenshot just now. You can do this for any object, so hopefully in time they bring it back so movie makers can use it again as it is a great camera.



I just read the original post from Loft on the F11 key issue, answering a request from Requiem (post #672):

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/7-questions-developers/page-17

Posted 06 May 2014 - 14:12

SYN_Requiem, on 06 May 2014 - 15:09, said:

Cheers mate, I just wanted you to know that the F11 camera is really important because it is the only camera which isn't linked to an object and has a freedom of movement to it. Many people have trouble implementing what they read in books into a three dimensional environment when they get in the plane, so this ability to visualise all the maneuvers they read about from a stationary perspective really helps in their understanding. For me to say this camera view is essential for what I do is an understatement salute

=FB=LOFT

Bat some users use this camera to blame us. They use it to travel inside objects and ets. This is why we remove this camera during early stage. Strange but then you start to do something, some people start to hate you only because you do something.


I hope that the stated reason has nothing to do with the real reason, or else these guys are really insecure and paranoid about their project...

Last edited by nibbio; 11/24/14 02:50 PM.
#4040252 - 11/24/14 02:59 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Force10]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,179
bisher Offline
I'll be your Huckleberry
bisher  Offline
I'll be your Huckleberry
Veteran

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,179
Manitoba, Canada
I can't see your pic Requiem

Interesting about the F11 key

#4040268 - 11/24/14 03:20 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Force10]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,179
bisher Offline
I'll be your Huckleberry
bisher  Offline
I'll be your Huckleberry
Veteran

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,179
Manitoba, Canada
Wow I just read some of Loft's stuff

At one point he says 'the more buttons we have the less players we have' when asked about an emergency canopy release button

This is dismaying to read

#4040280 - 11/24/14 03:29 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Force10]  
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 72
ChiefRedCloud Offline
Junior Member
ChiefRedCloud  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 72
Canton, Georgia, USA
One thing is clear here ... many are upset with BoS in general if not in whole. I still find it well made in spite of the unlocks which I would gladly do with out. But whether 1CGS/777 wanted the WT crowd or not, there is no real comparison between the two. WT is a MMO that obviously had a LOT of financial backing from the get go. MMOs are generally like that.

But now the comment from above might be that had 1CGS/777 had all this money would it have been different? Most likely not. I do think that the Dev's have some regrets with what they have done. But I suspect that with something like this it isn't quite as easy to turn around and go in a different direction. And if they choose to we might not see it till much later down the road.

Let us try to remember that frustration amounts on both sides of the fence. And this is not the first project to see problems in the gaming community is it. Anyone read about Battle Field 4? Just an example.

No there is no excuse for attitude no matter what quarter it comes from. And yes we all have a right, within forums guidelines, to speak our piece and either stand by it or be persuaded by others arguments.

But over all we ALL want the same thing. A great Flight Sim to enjoy ourselves in. So except for blowing off steam unless you think beating a dead horse helps, we all need to move on to what ever helps us enjoy what little life we have left. I, myself, will enjoy BoS for what it is, yes griping a little every now and then, instead of what it could or should have been.

If you still fly BoS, then I'll see you in those chilly skies. Now I'm off to decorate my Christmas Tree with my wife.

Chief


R.E.D. (Retired Extremely Dangerous
#4040297 - 11/24/14 03:42 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Force10]  
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 240
Wolf_Rider Offline
Member
Wolf_Rider  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 240
Australia
WT was a port over from il2... what are you on about?


“Hypocrisy in anything whatever may deceive the cleverest and most penetrating man, but the least wide-awake of children recognizes it, and is revolted by it, however ingeniously it may be disguised.”

Leo Tolstoy, Anna Karenina
#4040323 - 11/24/14 04:24 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: ChiefRedCloud]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,105
Chucky Offline
Veteran
Chucky  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,105
UK
Originally Posted By: ChiefRedCloud
If you still fly BoS, then I'll see you in those chilly skies. Now I'm off to decorate my Christmas Tree with my wife.
Chief


Is she going right at the top? biggrin


EV's are the Devils matchbox.
#4040355 - 11/24/14 05:39 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: Force10]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,943
knightgames Offline
Hotshot
knightgames  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,943
MA
Regarding the F11 KEY: I don't get what "They use it to travel inside objects and ets" has to do with anything. Is it a cheat? Does it expose graphic anomalies?

Any explanation of what I'm missing? I made a video of the LaGG when it was first released and managed to get an inward view of the pilot (from approximately the pedals) by using the F2 button. It wasn't centered like I would have preferred and in all honesty it happened more by accident than anything. I thought it was unique enough of a shot and added a nice perspective instead of the many static shots we seem to get.

~ 22 seconds in.



Frankly I like looking inside to see the detail of the plane's bulkheads and innards. wink

What am I missing and how does the F11 key affect game play?

Last edited by knightgames; 11/24/14 05:40 PM.
#4040378 - 11/24/14 06:20 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: knightgames]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 676
nibbio Offline
Member
nibbio  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 676
Italy
Originally Posted By: knightgames


Frankly I like looking inside to see the detail of the plane's bulkheads and innards. wink

What am I missing and how does the F11 key affect game play?


It must be because pilots upskirt shots are frowned upon by 1CGS... They might show unhistorical and inappropriate underwear biggrin

#4040421 - 11/24/14 07:15 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: nibbio]  
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 66
SgtWilson Offline
Junior Member
SgtWilson  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 66
Yep. That's it.

#4040481 - 11/24/14 09:01 PM Re: It's safe to say trying to capture the War Thunder crowd has failed... [Re: lokitexas]  
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 560
lokitexas Offline
Member
lokitexas  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 560
San Antonio, TX.
Originally Posted By: lokitexas


Originally Posted By: SYN_Haashashin


So?? Such a censorship in that forum huh...


Considering you deleted threads from that post, yup. How long before a lock?

Point of that thread is to show you its not all rosy and people are not jumping for joy with the final product. More activity during pre-release vs finished product. Should be the other way around.


And 2 days from when I asked is the answer.

Page 4 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Moderated by  CyBerkut 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
Carnival Cruise Ship Fire....... Again
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:58 PM
Baltimore Bridge Collapse
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:51 PM
The Oldest WWII Veterans
by F4UDash4. 03/24/24 09:21 PM
They got fired after this.
by Wigean. 03/20/24 08:19 PM
Grown ups joke time
by NoFlyBoy. 03/18/24 10:34 PM
Anyone Heard from Nimits?
by F4UDash4. 03/18/24 10:01 PM
RIP Gemini/Apollo astronaut Tom Stafford
by semmern. 03/18/24 02:14 PM
10 years after 3/8/2014
by NoFlyBoy. 03/17/24 10:25 AM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0