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#4038740 - 11/21/14 02:15 AM Goodbye Kiowa  
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 790
DetCord Offline
Member
DetCord  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 790
Fort Riley, Kansas
Stellar platform. Provided CAS for us on numerous occasions in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Sorry to see it go.

http://www.dothaneagle.com/army_flier/ne...7bd93b7e7c.html


Ex-pat Kiwi currently serving in the U.S. Army
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4038824 - 11/21/14 10:29 AM Re: Goodbye Kiowa [Re: DetCord]  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,213
NH2112 Offline
Veteran
NH2112  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,213
Jackman, ME
So if I read the article right, the AH64D/E will take over the 58D's mission? Given the cost of the Apache that can only mean the loss of a good percentage of our scout helicopters, which will only hurt the guys on the ground. Or is there a plan to make a scout/observation version of the Lakota?


Phil

“The biggest problem people have is they don’t think they’re supposed to have problems.” - Hayes Barnard
#4038929 - 11/21/14 03:16 PM Re: Goodbye Kiowa [Re: DetCord]  
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 24,712
Dart Offline
Measured in Llamathrusts
Dart  Offline
Measured in Llamathrusts
Lifer

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 24,712
Alabaster, AL USA
Nooooooo.....


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
"The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
#4038937 - 11/21/14 03:25 PM Re: Goodbye Kiowa [Re: NH2112]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,477
HomeFries Offline
Air Dominance Project
HomeFries  Offline
Air Dominance Project
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,477
Originally Posted By: NH2112
So if I read the article right, the AH64D/E will take over the 58D's mission? Given the cost of the Apache that can only mean the loss of a good percentage of our scout helicopters, which will only hurt the guys on the ground. Or is there a plan to make a scout/observation version of the Lakota?

I agree. Using the Apache for the recon role doesn't sound like the best use of resources. It sounds more like a politician telling the Army to "do more with less".

After all, didn't they once design a helicopter for reconnaissance that was supposed to replace the Kiowa? Why bother to begin with if the Apache is a good recon platform?


-Home Fries

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
- Robert A. Heinlein

The average naval aviator, despite the sometimes swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy, and caring. These feelings just don't involve anyone else.

#4039009 - 11/21/14 04:54 PM Re: Goodbye Kiowa [Re: DetCord]  
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master Offline
Entil'zha
Jedi Master  Offline
Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
They're not buying extra Apaches. The Apaches will just be tasked to do this, too. They'll also gain the ability to direct UAVs for increased range.

The Army has now tried THREE times to replace the Kiowa. The Comanche came first, but there were two more attempts after its cancellation. In every case, lots of money was spent, a helo or two was built, and the thing collapsed. The money spent on all three at this point could've funded building tons more Kiowas in the first place.

At this point it's looking like the mission the Army is a total failure at is procurement.




The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4039023 - 11/21/14 05:24 PM Re: Goodbye Kiowa [Re: DetCord]  
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,700
Peally Offline
Hotshot
Peally  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,700
Wisconsin, USA
Pretty sure it and all the other branches have failed at that mission many times over since the founding of the country wink


Scully: Victim died of multiple stab wounds.
Mulder: *throws her a file* Ever heard of the knife alien?
#4039191 - 11/22/14 12:01 AM Re: Goodbye Kiowa [Re: DetCord]  
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 20,834
Stormtrooper Offline
Lifer
Stormtrooper  Offline
Lifer

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 20,834
Hours and hours and hours and hours working on the OH-58A when i was in.
Mostly flew with crew of 2. Wouldn't allow anyone else to go up because of weight limits,
so i'm surprised the OH-58D could fly with all the extras. Also the average thickness of the skin
and various other parts are around .020" thick.
Plastic windshields and door windows always yellowing/glazing/cracking.
Rubber boots (forgot technical name) tearing on the induction cowling another pain in the ass.
Crush box under pilot seat must have been .016" or less. Another pain in the ass installing.
Lining up door hinges which you would think would be easy.... sigh

So ummm yeah good riddance lol. dance copter

#4039262 - 11/22/14 06:27 AM Re: Goodbye Kiowa [Re: DetCord]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 41
Righteous Offline
Junior Member
Righteous  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 41
The OH-58Ds were overloaded from the start and had no further capacity for mission or weight growth as they were initially an used as artillery observers and the Army had little interest in them and nearly terminated the program in the 1980s as they were deficient in flight performance amongst other things. Congress continued to fund the program and the helicopter was useful in stopping Iranian attacks during the "Tanker War" in the Persian Gulf in the late 1980s since the Perry Class frigates of the time could not deploy the SH-60 and the SH-2 had no capability against fast patrol boats. Simply building more would not have solved anything since new OH-58Ds would have had the same performance problems. They would have needed a significant upgrade of the electronic systems and replacement of the mast mounted sight (MMS) with a chin or over the cockpit system that would have reduced wear on the main rotor mast and associated systems. The Army put tried this with the Bell ARH-70 Arapaho but kept having similar problems as the Bell 206 JetRanger series is just not capable of carrying all the black boxes and associated equipment for the scout role.
Besides, the OH-58D airframes the Army has are worn out. Ten years ago 4/7 CAV had to leave one in a hangar in Balad and then move it Taji while leaving just enough flight hours on the airframe to get it back to the US after the deployment. They could not send the aircraft through Progressive Phase Maintenance because the main stringer had nearly reached the end of its useful life and there were no more spare parts. There were other Kiowa Warriors (KWs) in a similar situation that 4/7 flew conservatively for lack of parts as the production lines were long closed and there were no major spares available much less extra airframes. Besides, the UAV and AH-64Ds were upgraded with better sensors than the KWs and these platforms still have plenty of spare parts available. Most KWs were rebuilt Vietnam era aircraft and there is a limit to how many times one can zero an airframe. The oldest Apache probably originated in about 1984 so they are at least 15 years younger.


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