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#4038417 - 11/20/14 02:56 PM If Pac Man for the Atari 2600 Was Released Today  
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I haven't kept up with the times but I get most of it <sigh>...




EDIT: Last night on South Park, Oculus Rift/Total Recall with outsourced tech support, pretty funny.

Last edited by MarkG; 11/20/14 02:58 PM.


The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4038426 - 11/20/14 03:12 PM Re: If Pac Man for the Atari 2600 Was Released Today [Re: MarkG]  
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And speaking of bad gaming trends (IMO)...

"Earlier this week it was revealed that Elite: Dangerous, another extremely interesting space simulator, would be dropping the promised offline mode that made up part of the games original Kickstarter pitch."

http://www.lazygamer.net/general-news/want-a-refund-on-elite-dangerous-thats-going-to-be-difficult/



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4038435 - 11/20/14 03:26 PM Re: If Pac Man for the Atari 2600 Was Released Today [Re: MarkG]  
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Unfortunately, probably so.

But Pac-man on the 2600 stunk anyway. Ms. Pac-man however... They better not ruin that one!


WARNING: This post contains opinions produced in a facility which also occasionally processes fact products.
#4038440 - 11/20/14 03:31 PM Re: If Pac Man for the Atari 2600 Was Released Today [Re: MarkG]  
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Originally Posted By: MarkG
And speaking of bad gaming trends (IMO)...

"Earlier this week it was revealed that Elite: Dangerous, another extremely interesting space simulator, would be dropping the promised offline mode that made up part of the games original Kickstarter pitch."

http://www.lazygamer.net/general-news/want-a-refund-on-elite-dangerous-thats-going-to-be-difficult/


There's still single player, you simply need to contact the internet to keep the game up to date. Considering we've been doing this with Steam since I've been in grade school, I think we'll rebuild wink


Scully: Victim died of multiple stab wounds.
Mulder: *throws her a file* Ever heard of the knife alien?
#4038442 - 11/20/14 03:35 PM Re: If Pac Man for the Atari 2600 Was Released Today [Re: MarkG]  
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There IS a difference with Steam now and back then. I USED to be able to put Steam into offline mode from within Steam itself. That's now gone. I have to disable the network adapter first (or crawl under the desk to pull the ethernet cable, then start Steam for the now mandatory login screen. Only then it will notice that there's no internet connection and offer the offline mode. Clearly they are doing everything they can to discourage people from using it.

#4038452 - 11/20/14 03:59 PM Re: If Pac Man for the Atari 2600 Was Released Today [Re: Peally]  
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Originally Posted By: Peally
There's still single player, you simply need to contact the internet to keep the game up to date. Considering we've been doing this with Steam since I've been in grade school, I think we'll rebuild wink


I admit I'm reading about this game with detached interest, but I believe in this case it goes further than merely game updates.

Do a search for "We do a great deal of processing in the cloud", a recent quote from the developer.



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4038454 - 11/20/14 04:00 PM Re: If Pac Man for the Atari 2600 Was Released Today [Re: MarkG]  
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Hmm... I just started Steam to check it out. Under the Steam tab-> go offline.

confused


"...late afternoon the Air Tasking Order came in [and] we found the A-10 part and we said, "We are going where!? We are doing what!?"

Capt. Todd Sheehy, Hog pilot, on receiving orders during Operation Desert Storm

#4038458 - 11/20/14 04:03 PM Re: If Pac Man for the Atari 2600 Was Released Today [Re: MarkG]  
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I still don't get all of the Steam hate. Ah well.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4038459 - 11/20/14 04:03 PM Re: If Pac Man for the Atari 2600 Was Released Today [Re: MarkG]  
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==========
"What would you lose in offline mode?
We have developed a multi-player game with an unfolding story involving the players, and groups collaborating with specific objectives and taking account of all players behaviour. This is what the game is about. Without this it would not be the rich gaming experience that we will deliver, and would be a great disappointment to all players."

Do you now consider Elite: Dangerous to be an MMO?
Technically, it has always been."
==========

http://www.htxt.co.za/2014/11/20/elite-offline-david-braben-responds-to-community-anger/

Ok, so Elite: Dangerous is really a MMO. Nevermind.

#4038467 - 11/20/14 04:21 PM Re: If Pac Man for the Atari 2600 Was Released Today [Re: MarkG]  
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Never said it was anything different. It's massive, supports multiplayer, and is online. They've stated already that in the case of business failure they're making regular archives of the game's state in case they ever need to drop off the planet and leave the game as-is.

I'm with Panzer, you simply can't please everyone. I'm extremely glad they're sticking to their vision like they have from the start, as a result we've gotten a great polished game as opposed to a horrible mission-creeping "early access" crap pile like so many games releasing lately are.


Scully: Victim died of multiple stab wounds.
Mulder: *throws her a file* Ever heard of the knife alien?
#4038477 - 11/20/14 04:31 PM Re: If Pac Man for the Atari 2600 Was Released Today [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
I still don't get all of the Steam hate. Ah well.


I don't hate Steam just as I don't hate Apple (I love my Shuffles and iTunes 10). But I would never agree to a license which requires me to repeatedly ask permission to install or use a software. I feel the same way with any media (I won't purchase media from Apple, even with the simple ways around locked media).

Had I agreed to this type of licensing in the past, I might possibly be locked out of older software that I use today. I work on multi-year projects (as a hobby and professionally), and I need to know that the software I rely on today will always be available to me, that my licenses are perpetual.

Games are not as important to me (unless I'm working on a remake) but it's the same principle, I'll only purchase software licenses with no future strings attached (only localized DRM [like a simple CD key]).

I can see some benefits of Steam to the hardcore gamer who prefers all digital (sales/organization/storage/auto-updating/etc.).

Last edited by MarkG; 11/20/14 04:35 PM.


The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4038478 - 11/20/14 04:34 PM Re: If Pac Man for the Atari 2600 Was Released Today [Re: MarkG]  
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JOIN US



Scully: Victim died of multiple stab wounds.
Mulder: *throws her a file* Ever heard of the knife alien?
#4038523 - 11/20/14 05:58 PM Re: If Pac Man for the Atari 2600 Was Released Today [Re: Peally]  
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Originally Posted By: Peally
JOIN US


NEVER! smile

Apart from licensing issues, I'm too old and set in my ways to go all digital. I also need the physical media, like when I'm listening to The Wall or War of the Worlds, I want to hold the booklets in my hands, even if miniaturized CD booklets are harder to read than LP versions.

My first purchased (non-shareware) game was F-117 (I was ~25) and it was almost a religious experience, but I think the packaging made as much of an impression than the game itself. smile There's still PDF to 3-ring binder, hopefully home printing will continue to be feasible for a long time.



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4038595 - 11/20/14 08:16 PM Re: If Pac Man for the Atari 2600 Was Released Today [Re: MarkG]  
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Been reading about the Elite game, this I believe is the real problem (other than some with crappy ISP and concern over future server shutdown) with the [last minute] bait-and-switch no off-line mode...

==========
"Can I pause the game?
Can I reload a previous save because I cocked up the mission, bought the wrong ship, hired the wrong crewman?
Can I apply an infinite money mod and a 10x speed mod so that I get to career around the galaxy exploring new systems without worrying about finances or fighting?
Can I email my game save to a friend so that he can try out my new ship too?

These are pretty basic standard features in a single player game. Im used to them. I had some of them in the original Elite, and the others in Elite 2."
==========


It's too bad when compromises are made for a better SP or MP experience that affect the other in negative ways.

The opinion I keep coming across that really bothers me is that one should expect a game to have a limited lifespan. Should we feel the same about music and movies too?

Last edited by MarkG; 11/20/14 08:22 PM.


The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4038599 - 11/20/14 08:29 PM Re: If Pac Man for the Atari 2600 Was Released Today [Re: MarkG]  
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They've got a vision for their game (and it's working pretty well since they're sticking to it). Like I said, you can't please everyone. Compromise is a huge cornerstone of software development, and not everyone will get exactly what they expected.


Scully: Victim died of multiple stab wounds.
Mulder: *throws her a file* Ever heard of the knife alien?
#4038600 - 11/20/14 08:38 PM Re: If Pac Man for the Atari 2600 Was Released Today [Re: Peally]  
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I think people expected an off-line mode and no DRM because that's what their Kickstarter told them to expect, and now the game is about to be released another way. smile



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4038607 - 11/20/14 09:01 PM Re: If Pac Man for the Atari 2600 Was Released Today [Re: MarkG]  
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I understand, I'm just jaded enough nowadays to know things probably won't turn out the way I expect when it comes to games biggrin


Scully: Victim died of multiple stab wounds.
Mulder: *throws her a file* Ever heard of the knife alien?
#4038620 - 11/20/14 09:29 PM Re: If Pac Man for the Atari 2600 Was Released Today [Re: MarkG]  
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About Steam (which wasn't on my mind when I started this thread)...

The only certainty is change. Sometimes software/services change for the better, sometimes for the worse. But change always happens, it has to.

As long as you can walk away from something if you're no longer satisfied. Other than utility companies (which I've never had issues with), I have to have the option to walk.

#4038629 - 11/20/14 09:39 PM Re: If Pac Man for the Atari 2600 Was Released Today [Re: MarkG]  
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Originally Posted By: MarkG
I think people expected an off-line mode and no DRM because that's what their Kickstarter told them to expect, and now the game is about to be released another way. smile


And you're free to request a refund in that case.

The game has always been developed as an online persistent universe shared game, that has been their vision from the very start. They had hoped to manage an offline version, and have spent a ton of time on trying to get it to work without success. so instead of crippling their main game, they have decided not to compromise and deliver the full vision of their game.

#4038669 - 11/20/14 11:02 PM Re: If Pac Man for the Atari 2600 Was Released Today [Re: MarkG]  
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It seems like there are two issues here- the Pac Man video seems more to do with the rise of the free to play model and mobile game development rather than Steam per se (though I don't have a Steam account and I couldn't tell you much about it).

When people's attention has moved to mobile devices, naturally their time is not committed as much to games with deep or lasting time commitments. Hence there isn't much advantage to spend a lot of resources on a long or deep game, what you get instead are just components of a game that players can purchase to get more experience. In theory this sounds like a logical solution, but in practice, it probably creates a lot of bad, shallow games, or games that aren't really games but more like platforms to addict players to certain mechanics requiring them to forking over money. This also breaks any immersion into the game as you can see, since the player is constantly bothered with game messages and interruptions.

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