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#4036233 - 11/15/14 11:42 AM Firefox - Think in Russian!  
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Flicking through TV channels last night I just caught the start of Firefox which I haven't seen for many years.

What a great movie! One thing that caught my attention.... the Firefox is said to be stealthy (but they don't use that specific term). When you finally see the Firefox one of the first shots shows the nose and cockpit section at least is facetted.



This movie was made in 1982, a time when the F-117 was still a black project and only just about to enter service, and what, 5 or 6 years from being made public.

So I did some digging through some old magazines I have, and I found an article in Jets Monthly from last year about the history and development of stealth aircraft... it actually mentions the Firefox movie and says the movie makers hired a military aviation expert of the day to help them design the Firefox, and apparently he at least got the part about stealth and facetting right!

So then, when are we getting DCS: Firefox? winkngrin

Last edited by Pielstick; 11/15/14 11:43 AM.
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#4036237 - 11/15/14 11:50 AM Re: Firefox - Think in Russian! [Re: Pielstick]  
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If you could go Mach 5 at ground level, the wings/tails should just detach and let you go your merry way.

#4036275 - 11/15/14 02:42 PM Re: Firefox - Think in Russian! [Re: Pielstick]  
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Originally Posted By: Pielstick
This movie was made in 1982, a time when the F-117 was still a black project and only just about to enter service, and what, 5 or 6 years from being made public.
winkngrin
They had some of the stealth fighters at Machrihanish airfield on the Mull of Kintyre in the early 80s, they gave rise to a whole lot of UFO sightings in the area at the time smile

It was used by the US, and had one of the longest runways in the UK, it was a diversionary runway for the space shuttle too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Machrihanish


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#4036279 - 11/15/14 02:55 PM Re: Firefox - Think in Russian! [Re: Pielstick]  
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Someone correct this if I'm wrong:

But I remember reading somewhere that the faceting of stealth aircraft in the early days was due to computers of that area having limited computation ability. The best computations they could manage supposedly were rather low resolution, hence the faceted appearance.

And this idea forward to present, and better computation is why modern stealth aircraft like the F-22 and F-35 have quite more rounded contours.

I cannot recall where I read that.


WARNING: This post contains opinions produced in a facility which also occasionally processes fact products.
#4036292 - 11/15/14 03:24 PM Re: Firefox - Think in Russian! [Re: Pielstick]  
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"Firefox" is a very underrated movie IMHO. It was one of Clint Eastwood's early directorial efforts and I think the cast was absolutely perfect.

It was nice getting to see Admiral Piett play a Soviet GRU Colonel. :-)


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4036295 - 11/15/14 03:34 PM Re: Firefox - Think in Russian! [Re: adlabs6]  
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Originally Posted By: adlabs6
Someone correct this if I'm wrong:

But I remember reading somewhere that the faceting of stealth aircraft in the early days was due to computers of that area having limited computation ability. The best computations they could manage supposedly were rather low resolution, hence the faceted appearance.

And this idea forward to present, and better computation is why modern stealth aircraft like the F-22 and F-35 have quite more rounded contours.

I cannot recall where I read that.

My understanding was that it wasn't the resolution, but just computing power that required the faceted approach. To calculate radar reflections off of a curved surface was much more computationally intensive than for flat surfaces, so that's the approach they took to get the plane built in a reasonable amount of time. As computing power increased, they were able to calculate it for curved surfaces.


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#4036301 - 11/15/14 04:05 PM Re: Firefox - Think in Russian! [Re: Pielstick]  
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Panzer you're spot on the cast is excellent.

Gotta love the look on the GRU Colonel's face when the First Secretary's car rolls up just as Clint is lining up on the runway eek

I'll say though that I enjoyed the first part of the movie where they get him into Russia and to the airbase a lot more than the latter part where he's flying.

BTW, Wikipedia says the Firefox design took a lot of cues from the XB-70. I can definitely see that.

Last edited by Pielstick; 11/15/14 04:06 PM.
#4036320 - 11/15/14 04:46 PM Re: Firefox - Think in Russian! [Re: Pielstick]  
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My all-time favorite movie (not hyperbole)! thumbsup

Pulling up a couple of old pics, Firefox is the only movie I love so much I own two of them, just in case...




Same with the book...




Firefox Down is also a really enjoyable read IMO, it picks up were the first book/movie ends (hint: his victorious flying into the sunset is short lived).

But I never want a remake, leave it in the '80s where it belongs! Hollywood today would only ruin it, not that I'm worried as the movie wasn't that popular anyway.

++++++++++

I had such high expectations when I first heard of a movie coming out called Stealth, what a letdown!

#4036326 - 11/15/14 05:11 PM Re: Firefox - Think in Russian! [Re: Arthonon]  
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Originally Posted By: Arthonon
Originally Posted By: adlabs6
Someone correct this if I'm wrong:

But I remember reading somewhere that the faceting of stealth aircraft in the early days was due to computers of that area having limited computation ability. The best computations they could manage supposedly were rather low resolution, hence the faceted appearance.

And this idea forward to present, and better computation is why modern stealth aircraft like the F-22 and F-35 have quite more rounded contours.

I cannot recall where I read that.

My understanding was that it wasn't the resolution, but just computing power that required the faceted approach. To calculate radar reflections off of a curved surface was much more computationally intensive than for flat surfaces, so that's the approach they took to get the plane built in a reasonable amount of time. As computing power increased, they were able to calculate it for curved surfaces.


I'm pretty sure the manufacturing & fabrication processes of the day made faceted shapes more easily than compound curves, too.


Phil

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#4036341 - 11/15/14 06:06 PM Re: Firefox - Think in Russian! [Re: NH2112]  
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Originally Posted By: NH2112


I'm pretty sure the manufacturing & fabrication processes of the day made faceted shapes more easily than compound curves, too.


in the 1970ies? Have you told that to the VW-Beetle and Suferbus guys? ;=)

(and yes I am aware it was composites, but it really was the lack of computing power for radar reflection that made the F-117 an aerodynamic wobbeling gobblin, arguing with ease of production and low cost but reduced efficency has never been the strong side of "next gen" weapons research, Im affraid...)

#4036354 - 11/15/14 06:31 PM Re: Firefox - Think in Russian! [Re: Pielstick]  
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BTW, the best Firefox-like experience I know of in a flight sim is flying EF2000 at accelerated speed (Shift T) through the fjords. The map is big enough (2000km x 2000km) and terrain is very well done for the day (deep valleys with high peaks).

Who remembers playing the Firefox laserdisc game at the arcade?




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#4036365 - 11/15/14 07:13 PM Re: Firefox - Think in Russian! [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
"Firefox" is a very underrated movie IMHO. It was one of Clint Eastwood's early directorial efforts and I think the cast was absolutely perfect.

It was nice getting to see Admiral Piett play a Soviet GRU Colonel. :-)



I love it too. It gets a bad rap because of the "think in Russian" bit. The main thing that bothers me is after he takes off, they cut to where the Russian guy that helped him is hounded and chased, choosing to kill himself. Then they immediately cut to happily flying to joyful music after that dark image. A bad editing choice. Otherwise, what a great cold war spy flick.


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#4036373 - 11/15/14 07:40 PM Re: Firefox - Think in Russian! [Re: Pielstick]  
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RK, I understand what you're saying, but at least Pavel knew Gant succeeded in their mission before he died, and then he chose his best option. Ok, not really a happy moment but... smile

In the book he never knew, IIRC he dies in an accident caused by his injuries after a parked shootout with the KGB.

This isn't a popular sentiment but in many cases I actually prefer the movie version to the book (e.g. ending to The Hunt for Red October), using the book to fill in the many details left out of the movie. Sometimes a book goes off into too many tangents which makes it too long, like the rape and then love interest in Red Storm Rising. It was totally unnecessary and added nothing relevant to the story IMO, other than to paint the enemy as heartless demons.



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4036426 - 11/15/14 10:03 PM Re: Firefox - Think in Russian! [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
"Firefox" is a very underrated movie IMHO. It was one of Clint Eastwood's early directorial efforts and I think the cast was absolutely perfect.

It was nice getting to see Admiral Piett play a Soviet GRU Colonel. :-)


And let's mix in a mentat from Dune for good measure!


The issue is not p*ssy. The issue is monkey.
#4036434 - 11/15/14 10:23 PM Re: Firefox - Think in Russian! [Re: Pielstick]  
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LOL MarkG that copy of Red Stom Rising looks well worn thumbsup

#4036487 - 11/16/14 12:45 AM Re: Firefox - Think in Russian! [Re: MarkG]  
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Originally Posted By: MarkG


Who remembers playing the Firefox laserdisc game at the arcade?



Not just playing it, but watching it while WAITING IN LINE to play. And it was FIFTY CENTS - absolutely unheard of back then. People would express shock at the price, so did I, but we forked over.

Dragons Lair came out the same year and was the real commercial hit (and yeah I dumped some quarters into that thing too!), but as a flightsimmer (yes I'd also done that by 1983) Firefox was the one I really stared at in complete amazement. I remember thinking if they could make an arcade game like this then someday flight sims could look like that too.

In many ways we're now there...

#4036488 - 11/16/14 12:46 AM Re: Firefox - Think in Russian! [Re: Pielstick]  
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I remember first time I saw that movie it had poor voice-over translation in Russian. Gives you entirely diffrerent view of that phrase "think in russian" biggrin

Last edited by ObvilionLost; 11/16/14 12:47 AM.
#4036543 - 11/16/14 04:02 AM Re: Firefox - Think in Russian! [Re: letterboy1]  
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Originally Posted By: letterboy1
Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
"Firefox" is a very underrated movie IMHO. It was one of Clint Eastwood's early directorial efforts and I think the cast was absolutely perfect.

It was nice getting to see Admiral Piett play a Soviet GRU Colonel. :-)


And let's mix in a mentat from Dune for good measure!



Did you also recognize the actor who played the German Colonel in Raiders of the Lost Ark?


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4036553 - 11/16/14 05:25 AM Re: Firefox - Think in Russian! [Re: Pielstick]  
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Call me crazy (and I know this will never, ever happen) but I'd totally buy a DCS:Firefox module!


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#4036572 - 11/16/14 08:38 AM Re: Firefox - Think in Russian! [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
Did you also recognize the actor who played the German Colonel in Raiders of the Lost Ark?


The scientist who starts the fire in the hangar was the Gestapo guy from Raiders of the Lost Ark, if that's what you mean?

The young GRU officer with dark hair in Moscow, the one trying to work out what's going on.... he was Al Pacino's friend (the one who ends up with his little sister) in Scarface.

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