#4027071 - 10/25/14 01:14 PM
Re: Cost of University in U.S. $10,000/semester; Germany = Free & for International Students
[Re: Haggart]
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semmern
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The old town in Heidelberg is absolutely beautiful!
In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
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#4027073 - 10/25/14 01:27 PM
Re: Cost of University in U.S. $10,000/semester; Germany = Free & for International Students
[Re: Haggart]
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Dart
Measured in Llamathrusts
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Measured in Llamathrusts
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Alabaster, AL USA
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So, then, the professors in Germany work pro bono? The students live in tents without electricity, running water, and meet in meadows and vacant lots?
Otherwise, there are costs associated with education and it's not "free."
That the students don't provide tuition to cover those costs does not make it "free" by any stretch of the term.
The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events. More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.comFrom Laser: "The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
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#4027074 - 10/25/14 01:27 PM
Re: Cost of University in U.S. $10,000/semester; Germany = Free & for International Students
[Re: Haggart]
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PFunk
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Remember that the American educational system does a different job than the European model.
For one, we don't track students. What that means is that if our students don't make a particular score on a test, they can still apply to any school for any major. In the European model, if you can't make the grade they want, you go to trade school.
Also, American public education doesn't weed out the kids that don't perform. We try to give everyone a baseline education and we rely on the university-level education system to do the gardening. That's why we call them 'cull courses'. It removes those members of the herd of prospective medical students who you do not want handling a scalpel.
Personally, I prefer ours. As a teacher, as a parent, I prefer what we do. So unless you want to start telling a kid, "I don't care what YOU want to do, you're going to be a welder," we probably should leave it alone.
Not everything other cultures do is worth emulating. Some of them think cats go good with gravy or that it's okay to hang gay people from construction cranes.
"A little luck & a little government is necessary to get by, but only a fool places his complete trust in either one." - PJ O'Rourke www.sixmanfootball.com
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#4027087 - 10/25/14 01:53 PM
Re: Cost of University in U.S. $10,000/semester; Germany = Free & for International Students
[Re: Dart]
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Haggart
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So, then, the professors in Germany work pro bono? The students live in tents without electricity, running water, and meet in meadows and vacant lots?
Otherwise, there are costs associated with education and it's not "free."
That the students don't provide tuition to cover those costs does not make it "free" by any stretch of the term. AVG cost for 2013-14 in state, at a 4 Yr University in U.S. = $18,400.00 (Room & Board, Tuition & other Fees) that does not include gas for your car, maintenance and insurance costs ....none of which you may need in Heildelberg, Germany
"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
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#4027092 - 10/25/14 02:00 PM
Re: Cost of University in U.S. $10,000/semester; Germany = Free & for International Students
[Re: Haggart]
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PanzerMeyer
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Miami, FL USA
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You conveniently didn't answer Dart's question Haggart.
The fact remains. There is NO such thing as "free education". Just ask any taxpayer.
Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 10/25/14 02:01 PM.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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#4027095 - 10/25/14 02:08 PM
Re: Cost of University in U.S. $10,000/semester; Germany = Free & for International Students
[Re: Haggart]
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Haggart
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Panzer I don't have an answer for how the professor's get paid ....but i do know that it won't be coming out of your pocket if you go there to study from the U.S.
How the professors get paid is totally irrelevant to any U.S. student going there to take advantage of excellent and free education
"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
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#4027098 - 10/25/14 02:17 PM
Re: Cost of University in U.S. $10,000/semester; Germany = Free & for International Students
[Re: PFunk]
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Nate
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Remember that the American educational system does a different job than the European model.
For one, we don't track students. What that means is that if our students don't make a particular score on a test, they can still apply to any school for any major. In the European model, if you can't make the grade they want, you go to trade school.
Also, American public education doesn't weed out the kids that don't perform. We try to give everyone a baseline education and we rely on the university-level education system to do the gardening. That's why we call them 'cull courses'. It removes those members of the herd of prospective medical students who you do not want handling a scalpel.
Personally, I prefer ours. As a teacher, as a parent, I prefer what we do. So unless you want to start telling a kid, "I don't care what YOU want to do, you're going to be a welder," we probably should leave it alone.
Not everything other cultures do is worth emulating. Some of them think cats go good with gravy or that it's okay to hang gay people from construction cranes. No such thing as a "European Model" - none of the above applies in Ireland or the UK. (EDIT:- I will say through you do have to attain a certain grade to get the Course you want) Nate
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#4027101 - 10/25/14 02:20 PM
Re: Cost of University in U.S. $10,000/semester; Germany = Free & for International Students
[Re: Haggart]
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PFunk
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Panzer I don't have an answer for how the professor's get paid ....but i do know that it won't be coming out of your pocket if you go there to study from the U.S.
How the professors get paid is totally irrelevant to any U.S. student going there to take advantage of excellent and free education It comes out of someone's pocket. Someone who probably wouldn't be paying for a kid to get a 4-year in gender studies if they had the option.
"A little luck & a little government is necessary to get by, but only a fool places his complete trust in either one." - PJ O'Rourke www.sixmanfootball.com
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#4027103 - 10/25/14 02:24 PM
Re: Cost of University in U.S. $10,000/semester; Germany = Free & for International Students
[Re: Nate]
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PFunk
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N. Central Texas
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Remember that the American educational system does a different job than the European model.
For one, we don't track students. What that means is that if our students don't make a particular score on a test, they can still apply to any school for any major. In the European model, if you can't make the grade they want, you go to trade school.
Also, American public education doesn't weed out the kids that don't perform. We try to give everyone a baseline education and we rely on the university-level education system to do the gardening. That's why we call them 'cull courses'. It removes those members of the herd of prospective medical students who you do not want handling a scalpel.
Personally, I prefer ours. As a teacher, as a parent, I prefer what we do. So unless you want to start telling a kid, "I don't care what YOU want to do, you're going to be a welder," we probably should leave it alone.
Not everything other cultures do is worth emulating. Some of them think cats go good with gravy or that it's okay to hang gay people from construction cranes. No such thing as a "European Model" - none of the above applies in Ireland or the UK. Nate Referring to how the continent runs things. Everyone goes nuts about the Finland model and how 'voluntary' their high school education tracks are. They're 'voluntary' the same way the draft was 'voluntary'. As long as you didn't turn 18, you were fine. If a kid is very bright, very gifted in a field, but is a poor test-taker, they're screwed. We don't have an education cost problem in the US. We have a stupid degree problem. When you take out $60,000 in loans for a degree in medieval literature and can't find a decent job, that was your decision. Next time, may I suggest an education in the applied sciences?
"A little luck & a little government is necessary to get by, but only a fool places his complete trust in either one." - PJ O'Rourke www.sixmanfootball.com
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#4027105 - 10/25/14 02:26 PM
Re: Cost of University in U.S. $10,000/semester; Germany = Free & for International Students
[Re: Haggart]
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Haggart
I Fought Diablo
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Sure it comes out of some pocket ...maybe the German government = German taxpayers, idk. Does it matter to a U.S. student ...NO.
"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
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#4027107 - 10/25/14 02:27 PM
Re: Cost of University in U.S. $10,000/semester; Germany = Free & for International Students
[Re: PFunk]
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Nate
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Referring to how the continent runs things. Everyone goes nuts about the Finland model and how 'voluntary' their high school education tracks are.
They're 'voluntary' the same way the draft was 'voluntary'. As long as you didn't turn 18, you were fine. If a kid is very bright, very gifted in a field, but is a poor test-taker, they're screwed.
Interesting, not a model I'd subscribe to either. Nate
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#4027108 - 10/25/14 02:28 PM
Re: Cost of University in U.S. $10,000/semester; Germany = Free & for International Students
[Re: Haggart]
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Haggart
I Fought Diablo
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Sure it comes out of some pocket ...maybe the German government = German taxpayers, idk. Does it matter to a U.S. student ...NO and this post is not about how German professor's get paid.
"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
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#4027111 - 10/25/14 02:32 PM
Re: Cost of University in U.S. $10,000/semester; Germany = Free & for International Students
[Re: Haggart]
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PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
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Sure it comes out of some pocket ...maybe the German government = German taxpayers, idk. Does it matter to a U.S. student ...NO and this post is not about how German professor's get paid.
Haggart this is a valid point and I'm just stunned that this doesn't piss off German taxpayers. As an American taxpayer I would NOT want to be footing the bill for foreign students to get a free education at a US college.
Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 10/25/14 02:33 PM.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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#4027112 - 10/25/14 02:35 PM
Re: Cost of University in U.S. $10,000/semester; Germany = Free & for International Students
[Re: Haggart]
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PFunk
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Sure it comes out of some pocket ...maybe the German government = German taxpayers, idk. Does it matter to a U.S. student ...NO and this post is not about how German professor's get paid.
You're absolutely right, Hag. This thread is about free college education for kids, which in and of itself is a laudable goal. Bravo. However, as we have learned from various government-funded initiatives, there is nothing that is free, Hag. Yes, it works out very well for the student. To do that, someone else has to do without that income. That was the point that Dart was trying to make. If X takes from Y for the benefit of Z, X is a scoundrel. We have a hard enough time with kids' perception that the world revolves around their every little whim.
"A little luck & a little government is necessary to get by, but only a fool places his complete trust in either one." - PJ O'Rourke www.sixmanfootball.com
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#4027154 - 10/25/14 03:45 PM
Re: Cost of University in U.S. $10,000/semester; Germany = Free & for International Students
[Re: Haggart]
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Ssnake
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Germoney
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As a German taxpayer I'm not particularly outraged by our system. Yes, as a radical fringe libertarian (by German standards ... which probably is the equivalent to a "business Republican" with a strong slant for social liberalism) I'd prefer if the students would at least contribute some token fee per semester (provided that we'd then also have a broad system of providing reasonable credit conditions and other means of supporting poor but gifted students). But on the other hand, anyone from abroad who is willing to learn German to the point that he can successfully take courses at a German university might decide to work here for a few years, maybe even more, and thus contribute to our economy - potentially more than his years at university cost us. There will be networking and bonding effects that probably last for decades and which will, one way or the other, have a positive side effect.
I'd rather have more foreign students here than pure poverty motivated immigration into our social security system, abusing the regulations for political asylum.
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#4027169 - 10/25/14 04:06 PM
Re: Cost of University in U.S. $10,000/semester; Germany = Free & for International Students
[Re: Haggart]
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semmern
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On a sidenote, what is the standard tax rate in the US, if there is such a thing? Here in Norway we taxpayers foot the bill for healthcare and education, and, for simplicity's sake, the standard tax rate here is 36%, before any deductions and such.
In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
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