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#4026827 - 10/24/14 08:22 PM How is this game in terms of the pew-pew?  
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- Ice Offline
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Okay, I've read some of the threads but that quickly devolved into "I don't like this" or "I hate that" which is more about the non-flying aspect of the game.

Suppose I was not bothered with everything, played on as-close-to-simulation settings as possible (takeoff, ingress, mission, egress, land), how is this game in terms of accuracy with regards to WWII aircraft dogfighting? Specifically:

1.) Is the flight modelling accurate? Will one aircraft feel and fly differently from another aircraft? I'm no expert and I've never flown in any of these planes so I really couldn't tell the degree of accuracy, but I'm more after simulation flying than Ace Combat/arcadey flying.

2.) Is the damage modelling any good? Are aircraft as tough or as fragile as they are supposed to be?

3.) How is the wingman AI? Do they require constant babysitting? Are they better off being told to anchor somewhere and you do the mission yourself?

4.) How is the enemy AI? Do they fly and fight as you would expect? Do they use their advantages to their benefit or do they fly around like idiots?

5.) Is it possible to turn off or limit the range at which the labels show up?

6.) Are things like fuel consumption and ammunition count modeled?


I'm basically interested in WWII dogfighting. RoF is just too "old" for me, I don't quite like flying WWI aircraft. DCS is so "meh" and I'm happy to wait until that sim grows up a bit more. IL2 is probably the best in this genre but I'd like something that looks more modern if possible. While I like BMS for it's accuracy, I'll be honest and say I wish the ground graphics looked more DCS-level.

Anyway, thoughts appreciated! Thanks!


- Ice
#4026882 - 10/24/14 10:41 PM Re: How is this game in terms of the pew-pew? [Re: - Ice]  
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Hi Ice,

I am one of the "early access" folks, and I'm currently slogging through the campaign. I'll take a stab at answering what I can, based on where I "think" you are coming from as far as your expectations:

1.) FM's are "good enough". Not perfect and some occasional weirdness (in my opinion) but they are overall "ok-to-good". And I expect they will continue to be tweaked refined. The feel is different between the various planes, and overall the "feel" is "believable" enough for me.

2.) Damage model is pretty good. Kills might be just a tad too easy (but I've been flying a lot of DCS lately, and kills in there are tough, so my point of reference may be "skewed"). Likewise getting killed? But not a deal breaker. Seems fine to me.... I just "adjust" my dogfighting style.

3.) Consider the AI wingmen a "work in progress". There are some problems. Hopefully subsequent updates will address this.

4.) Enemy AI seems ok at this point. They will fight.

5.) Labels are "On" or "Off".

6.) I believe ammo count is realistic by plane type. As for fuel, the missions are so short I have not really bothered to check the gauges frown

I think BoS was released in far better shape than CoD was, but I sincerely hope that work on it continues... and the full mission editor is released ASAP.

It is not as "complete" as RoF currently is, and is not the sim that IL2 1946 is. Hopefully time and continued updates will move BoS in the right direction.

I think you'll have fun playing it, as long as you go into it with eyes-open and do not expect a prettier version of IL2 1946.

Best wishes.


LeadTurn_SD
XO VMF-132 Shadow Demons
Specs: CPU: Intel i5 760 MEM: 8Gb, Video: AMD HD 6850, OS: Win 7 64 bit
#4026926 - 10/25/14 12:18 AM Re: How is this game in terms of the pew-pew? [Re: - Ice]  
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^^^Good summary.

I don't find AI good "dogfighter's", you can easy handle 4x "ACE" Fw 190 with YAK-1 if avoid head ons.

Quote:
5.) Labels are "On" or "Off".


If you choose play the Campaign in NORMAL mode (in what you can turn off "aids" if prefer CEM) you can turn labels ON/OFF at any time, only padlock is not available (In Campaign, available in QM or single missions).

Quote:

5.)6.) Are things like fuel consumption and ammunition count modeled?


Yes, fuel consumption is modelled and in NORMAL mode the "Digital Instrument Panel"(overly) show ammo count for all planes, include for external ordnance (bombs and rockets).
Bf 109, Fw 190, Ju 87 have this historical ammo counter on instrument panel proper modelled (functional).

EDIT - I think that the most important thing to do is: Dont see this game as "il-2 Sturmovik II", just a new (FS) game with il-2 Sturmovik. wink

Sokol1

Last edited by Sokol1; 10/25/14 01:01 AM.
#4026935 - 10/25/14 12:30 AM Re: How is this game in terms of the pew-pew? [Re: - Ice]  
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Gambit21 Offline
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Ice, I think you will be happy.
Things are looking good, and getting better all the time.
Another update just today.

There's a lot of dysfunction in the community right now (what else is new eh?)
There are some legitimate issues, but no show stoppers.

The feeling of flight alone is much better than the old old IL2, so is the damage model.
(Not saying both don't have room for improvement)
If you're a WWII flight sim fan it's a no brainier my friend.

#4027088 - 10/25/14 01:54 PM Re: How is this game in terms of the pew-pew? [Re: - Ice]  
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Thanks for the replies guys!

Believable FMs is good enough... if one can apply proper dogfighting tactics and maneuvers and get the expected results, I'm all for it.

Comparing a new-release product with IL-2 and RoF and CloD would not be fair; IMHO DCS has stumbled and tripped and nose-dived in the past 4 years that I've known it and it still has issues now so a new-release with issues is nothing new. I'm willing to cut it some slack.

As I've not played IL-2, I've never bothered setting up my controls and TIR for RoF, I've not touched CloD, and I've not purchased and "older" DCS aircraft, I guess I'm coming into this with a blank slate.

Sokol1, what is CEM?

Gambit21, I'm not really a WWII sim fan and that's the issue right there. I've always been more of a modern aircraft simmer - DCS A10C, Falcon BMS, Jane's F/A-18 years ago, and even Total Air War decades ago! However, I've always been lacking in my knife-fight-in-a-phone-booth dogfighting skills so I thought what better way to practice than with WWII aircraft?


- Ice
#4027097 - 10/25/14 02:11 PM Re: How is this game in terms of the pew-pew? [Re: Gambit21]  
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Originally Posted By: Gambit21
Ice, I think you will be happy.
Things are looking good, and getting better all the time.
Another update just today.

There's a lot of dysfunction in the community right now (what else is new eh?)
There are some legitimate issues, but no show stoppers.

The feeling of flight alone is much better than the old old IL2, so is the damage model.
(Not saying both don't have room for improvement)
If you're a WWII flight sim fan it's a no brainier my friend.


That dysfuntionality is and was caused by 1C/777, and the resulting Sh%$ Storm is the result.

Ice, just know going in, the graphics are nice, the feeling of flight is nice, but there is no meat to this game. If you are a SP guy, there is nothing more that a QMB and a very few SP missions(the Campaign is QMB non connected, non dynamic, no Historical Squads, No pilot story line and you can't even enter a fictitious pilot name). BOS may have potential in the future, but that remains to be seen. All above is my opinion only.

S!Blade

#4027106 - 10/25/14 02:27 PM Re: How is this game in terms of the pew-pew? [Re: - Ice]  
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Okay... Blade, what is QMB?

I'm not really much of a SP guy. Sure, I'll SP vs. AI to practice/test my dogfight skills but I'm more of a MP guy. I've MP'ed 99% of my DCS and BMS flight time biggrin

As for the meat, well... cough! DCS! cough!! If I get good dogfight practice and will improve my dogfight skills for BMS, then I'm all for it. Switchology and clickable cockpits are nice, but how many switches do you really need in a WWII aircraft? neaner


- Ice
#4027134 - 10/25/14 03:08 PM Re: How is this game in terms of the pew-pew? [Re: - Ice]  
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QMB Quick Mission Builder.. CEM Complex Engine Management .. FMB Full Mission Builder

If you keep in mind that this sim was released less than a week ago, that the developers may not get every decision right but they do get some very right and that BoS is a work in progress.. you will enjoy it. The ground handling is good.. don't snag a tree on a strafing run because you will die.. the night fighting is very interesting.. make sure you look at the night time sky varefully. Overall it is a great product with loads of potential in spite of it's current drawbacks.. and there are some. Take the sim as it is on it's own terms and you will find enjoyment. Currently it is the only dedicated WWII sim on the market that still gets full developer support and has the potential and the very real .. not speculative possibility to expand to other theaters with more content.


Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
#4027201 - 10/25/14 04:53 PM Re: How is this game in terms of the pew-pew? [Re: Bearcat99]  
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HogDriver Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bearcat99
QMB Quick Mission Builder.. CEM Complex Engine Management .. FMB Full Mission Builder

If you keep in mind that this sim was released less than a week ago, that the developers may not get every decision right but they do get some very right and that BoS is a work in progress..



It's still "Early Access" in everything but name.


I refuse to buy a flight sim that I have no interest in playing, on the off chance that MAYBE someday they'll make the one I really want to play.

#4027227 - 10/25/14 05:54 PM Re: How is this game in terms of the pew-pew? [Re: - Ice]  
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Yes, "it's only 99%" (last Loft statement before the "release" day). smile

#4027285 - 10/25/14 08:11 PM Re: How is this game in terms of the pew-pew? [Re: Blade_Meister]  
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Originally Posted By: Blade_Meister

That dysfuntionality is and was caused by 1C/777, and the resulting Sh%$ Storm is the result.


No
I'm not talking about those who make their objections heard in an adult, polite, tactful way.
I'm talking about other behaviors we've seen as of late.
There's a difference between the two.

#4027345 - 10/26/14 12:51 AM Re: How is this game in terms of the pew-pew? [Re: - Ice]  
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Like if I say this game does PEW-pew a lot? neaner

#4027789 - 10/27/14 06:18 AM Re: How is this game in terms of the pew-pew? [Re: Gambit21]  
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Originally Posted By: Gambit21
Originally Posted By: Blade_Meister

That dysfuntionality is and was caused by 1C/777, and the resulting Sh%$ Storm is the result.


No
I'm not talking about those who make their objections heard in an adult, polite, tactful way.
I'm talking about other behaviors we've seen as of late.
There's a difference between the two.


that is the difficult part though... to an avid fan, anything other than avid praise is derogatory, no matter how it is put

Last edited by Wolf_Rider; 10/27/14 06:20 AM.

“Hypocrisy in anything whatever may deceive the cleverest and most penetrating man, but the least wide-awake of children recognizes it, and is revolted by it, however ingeniously it may be disguised.”

Leo Tolstoy, Anna Karenina
#4027807 - 10/27/14 09:27 AM Re: How is this game in terms of the pew-pew? [Re: - Ice]  
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My flight sim background in the last years is mostly RoF, and I bought IL2BoS two days ago. For all the drama in the last couple of weeks, with my limited experience of just two planes, mostly BF 109-F4 and a little bit of LaGG-3, I actually think that it is okay to good.
I am trying to stick to expert mode from the beginning, including start and landing, complex engine management, navigation, etc. I made three or four test flights with the 109, and one in the LaGG-3 in the QMB; a bit of familierization, ground handling, engine management, and a little dogfight 109 vs single LaGG3s. The rest of my time I spend in the campaign.

Coming from RoF, CEM is not really a big issue. Pretty much none at all in the 109, as even in expert mode there is an automatic system to operate the radiators, propeller pitch, etc. You can disable those and handle them manually, but I didn't see a need to do so yet. The LaGG-3 has no such automatic systems, but it didn't seems to be overly difficult to handle in the admittedly few minutes that I used it in expert mode.

Navigation is currently one of the bigger challenges, as the map is obvioulsy new to me, and the distinct terrain features are rare. Mostly city/village outlines and forrests, next rail and road system. The main navigation cue in RoF, water bodies like rivers and lakes, is more tricky, just a different shade of white at best; but we know that also already from the RoF winter map...

Air combat is difficult for me to evaluate - the single novice LaGG-3s in QMB were easy enough to deal with in the 109.
In the campaign I have yet to fire a single shot - I manage to find the target area, but I hardly ever managed to see the enemy at all; more of a situational awareness problem on my end - no TrackIR and a wornout hat switch.
But as I have some wingmen, so far they have mostly been capable to handle the enemies and complete the objective for me.
In doing so, together with me doing the start and landings, and all that in expert mode, experience is still coming in quick enough to unlock loadouts and paint schemes. I don't care for the latter, but after two or three missions I got some bombs that enables me to do some ground attack missions as well. Did one yesterday, an attack on a convoy - the first time that I used my weapons. Actually hit something with the 50kg bombs and also in some strafe runs. My wingmen seemed not much help here, but I was well capable to complete the mission goal by myself.
Alas, on the way home the game crashed for the first time. pitchafit

Edit: Almost forgot - also check out Requiem familiarization videos on youtube, as invaluable as his RoF videos!

Last edited by WhoCares; 10/27/14 01:56 PM.
#4027854 - 10/27/14 01:31 PM Re: How is this game in terms of the pew-pew? [Re: Gambit21]  
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Originally Posted By: Gambit21
Originally Posted By: Blade_Meister

That dysfuntionality is and was caused by 1C/777, and the resulting Sh%$ Storm is the result.


No
I'm not talking about those who make their objections heard in an adult, polite, tactful way.
I'm talking about other behaviors we've seen as of late.
There's a difference between the two.


Exactly. The inability to differentiate between a reasoned criticism and a childish rant is something that should concern most people.



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4027857 - 10/27/14 01:44 PM Re: How is this game in terms of the pew-pew? [Re: - Ice]  
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I disagree, the number of childish rants is so low it's a non issue.
But we can make it an issue


#4027865 - 10/27/14 02:07 PM Re: How is this game in terms of the pew-pew? [Re: - Ice]  
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That's contradictory. If there is a crap storm, how can it consist of largely well-reasoned objections? Then it's NOT a crap storm.

As for the numbers, are you referring to the number of people making them, or the total number of times those people have made them? I will agree that the first number isn't all that large, but the second number is annoyingly high due to repeat offenders.



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4027867 - 10/27/14 02:14 PM Re: How is this game in terms of the pew-pew? [Re: - Ice]  
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No how about you provide links to these 'chidish rants'

I have no idea what a 'crap storm' is

These are such vague terms they have no value and only add to the drama

#4027873 - 10/27/14 02:23 PM Re: How is this game in terms of the pew-pew? [Re: - Ice]  
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I'm confused, who said I wasn't relaxed? confused

We're not allowed to post "personal attacks", and as a link to any particular post would be considered a personal attack by the poster (because my opinion of their post as being a childish rant offends them), I'm afraid I can't.

Ask Blade_Meister about a crap storm, he's the one who labeled it.





The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4027880 - 10/27/14 02:36 PM Re: How is this game in terms of the pew-pew? [Re: - Ice]  
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Yes, no I recognized it was I who was not relaxed and edited my post smile

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