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#4026448 - 10/24/14 04:17 AM Re: All this slagging of BoS?? Really..! [Re: Bearcat99]  
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Hmmm, hmmmmm........

#4026468 - 10/24/14 04:57 AM Re: All this slagging of BoS?? Really..! [Re: Bearcat99]  
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Bearcat99, you are a joking right? No one here is slagging BOS. The negative response you have read here and on the BOS Forum and the Atag Forum are from some of the people that helped fund this project that were told, through 1C/777 promotional descriptions, of a next generation IL2 Simulator.(if you really want me to I will find Lofts' words) BOS is simply, in some Customers eyes, not a next generation IL2. Those people. including me, have listed their disappointments in BOS in great detail to try to let 1C/777 know what the backlash was all about. 1c/777 produced the game they wanted to and it was about 50% of what they promoted. The people that have paid for this product and tested it and sre voicing their opinions , both positive and negative. You cannot influence people that have a negative opinion of BOS to try to get them to promote it because it is the only new WWII Sim to be developed in the past 5 years or whatever. Please go back over to the BOS Forums, where everything is moderated to your liking and all Rosy, and pitch your BS there. Most people who have a negative opinion of BOS have either been Banned or had so many of there posts deleted that they have left well enough alone now. On this Forum I only see a reality check of Honest assessment on BOS by a bunch of Flight Simulator loving people, again both positive and negative. Passion for Flight Simmings good involves discernment of the product, BOS, as a whole with what constitutes a good Flight Sim. What you are reading hear is the discussion of that discernment of where BOS lies in context with what Flight Simming people consider the mark of a next generation Flight Sim. The discussions and opinions that are coming from that hands on discerning experience with BOS are the right of each paying BOS Customer, positive or negative. Please stop lamenting your crusade to save the latest WWII sim to be developed, because it might be the last if we don't get behind it and support it. Please go back and ask 1C/777 to implement what a majority of its customers want( Jasons' poll supports this) and see if they are wise enough to improve the chances of BOSs' success, by actually doing what they said they were going to do in their original pitch(promotion) to the mainly hardcore simming Community that helped finance it. I will end with this quote from Loft on May 30, 2013 from the first interview about the new project BOS.

"The path we chose is a complicated one, because the target audience of our product is quite limited. It’s not enough to love planes and to have an interest in history. You need at least to buy a joystick. But we’ll try to attract new players and to expand the interest in the gamer community. Always and anywhere when one really tries a simulator – not only flight sim – but any simulation – he gets immediately fascinated by the game process and becomes a real fan of the genre. Our goal is to make the first interest to motivate his first step in a proper direction. And we’ll sure work hard on it! I mean such things as the comfort of usage, game interface, and the other sides of the game.

And to the experienced avia-sim players I want to say: “Don’t worry! We know how to make our sim the way you’ll like it!”

Well, now that I have BOS in its finished released state, I have to disagree and say, Loft, somewhere along the way you lost your knowledge of how to make your sim the way the avia-sim player likes it also. It seems maybe he lost touch with the part of his user base that actually would have promoted his sim, if it would have really pleased both the sim newcomer and the avia-simmer. So here we are, you reap what you sow. Bearcat99, I am sure you are of good intention, but please don't come on here and say I am an idiot again. I like many others here bought BOS in good faith. 1C/777 built and deliverd BOS in working order in good Faith to its Customers. Now it is each Customers right to use BOS and form their own opinions to either keep to themselves or share with their fellow Flight Sim Comrades.(no pun intended, well maybe a little, LOL) Please respect that and let BOS stand on the reputation of its success , failure or anywhere in between that it earns. Once the customers have judged it, we will see where BOS stands.

S!Blade<><
Edit: WOW! just WOW! Dude.
Originally Posted By: Bearcat99
but think about what I said.. what I really said. Not what you think I said.

Now you insult me(I guess everyone involved in this thread)by insinuating that I didn't understand what you wrote when I read it, and that I should think like you when I reread it so that I understand it and accept your line of BS they way you do. Sorry to be crude and my apology in advance for what I am about to say but, and I am assuming here, you are the kind of Politically Correct Kumbaya Singing Liberal thinking person that I refuse to become. Give it a rest, BOS will sink or swim all by itself, on its own merits without your crusade of subtle insults that everyone else here is ignorant and will kill BOS with their Honest opinions, except you. You really are a UNI - Q Sir! bs_sign


Last edited by Blade_Meister; 10/24/14 05:26 AM.
#4026469 - 10/24/14 05:04 AM Re: All this slagging of BoS?? Really..! [Re: bisher]  
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Originally Posted By: bisher
Hmmm, hmmmmm........

+1

#4026470 - 10/24/14 05:05 AM Re: All this slagging of BoS?? Really..! [Re: FlyingMonkey]  
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Originally Posted By: FlyingMonkey
What I found a bit disturbing about the whole BOS business is how it became so personal, with some really intense personal attacks directed at Loft or Jason. I'm personally not happy with a whole number of things regarding IL2 BOS (I hate the whole XP grinding thing, the locking of settings...), but I think we are all better off if we don't pretend to read in the mind of Loft or Jason and let ourselves drawn into conspiracy theories which are unhealthy and made me want to avoid looking at any forum section related to IL2 BOS (I know that Loft isn't a friendly figure or a diplomat, and probably doesn't have much respect for the hardcore simmers, but I still prefer to ignore that and just look at what really happens over time rather than focus on forum wars).

It looks like things are starting to calm down now, and while it's clear that IL2 BOS didn't turn out to be like what most of us thought it would be (a ww2 version of ROF. I remember Jason selling it like this), it's not an arcade game, the grinding is not as horrible as something like WT (thanks goodness. I still hate it though), but I'm not sure anybody can predict where the game will go later on and what success or failure would mean for the franchise at that point. Personally, I'll use BOS much less thant I envisioned at first, but I feel it's going to take at least a year before we can clearly see whether 3rd party initiatives can save some aspect of the game. Jason expressed his support for something like the PWCG for BOS, and that would make a huge difference - when I look at RoF single player, this is what made me stay and keep playing single player. Are we sure yet that the same type of campaign generator won't be possible for IL2 BOS? Until I see a clear answer to that I'll still allow myself a little bit of optimism, but that's just my 2 cents.


I can pretty much agree with this ^^^^^^^

I am however done with 1C and I personally don't think the Il2 name has any weight to it anymore.
Lets say 777 would have done this on their own without 1C and the Il2 name,,,
It would have been just as Big and the news about it would have spread just as Fast across the web!

I'm holding out hope still , but I have NO desire to play BOS until something is done to give me the option to play without any XP and Unlocks.
Frankly,that makes me Not want to even turn on the game.
Personally,,it 100% ruins the gameplay and the entire experience for me.
It does it so much so that I just won't play it.

In the past I dealt with it in WT, but that's because WT was Free..

Right now CLOD is my Go to Sim,, and I don't see that changing until I know more of what will become available in the future of BOS to fix that which I TRULY hate..
If they can give me the option so I can play the Game with NO XP and NO Unlocks,,and support for Full user created content,,, then I will play it.
Heck,, If they could at least give server admins the option to turn all that crap off, then I will at least play MP.

I hate tyo say it but right now BOS is simply a sim that is taking up space on my HD.
While I still am holding out some hope since it is so early,,, I Sadly don't see this changing as long as any part of 1C is involved..
1C's motto should be "We take a Crap on any Fans that support a 1C published game !"

I will close by adding that I have NEVER in ALL my years of playing sims, seen a game so locked down and restricted !!
Frankly it is insane to me to see such a thing in any Sim.

It's almost like they fear people that want to play the way they want to play and run settings the way they want to.
I really have NO understanding of why BOS is like that.

Desode


Forumrunners.com When you crave teamwork at the Highest Level ! Were waiting for you !


#4026471 - 10/24/14 05:08 AM Re: All this slagging of BoS?? Really..! [Re: jcall]  
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Originally Posted By: jcall
I hope that people can see past a few peoples hate and enjoy what is a top notch game.


Their poll regarding the unlocks and the SP Campaign being run on the BoS forum suggests it is more than a few people. In fact it is a vast majority of existing customers with experience with the game. But hate is a bit strong, although I do hate turnips, so maybe not. And I do hate what their late design decisions did to what could have been, and still could be a great flight sim if they see fit to change it.


Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up!
Can you say "JABO!" thumbsup
#4026480 - 10/24/14 05:22 AM Re: All this slagging of BoS?? Really..! [Re: KodiakJac]  
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Originally Posted By: Bucksnort
Originally Posted By: jcall
I hope that people can see past a few peoples hate and enjoy what is a top notch game.


Their poll regarding the unlocks and the SP Campaign being run on the BoS forum suggests it is more than a few people. In fact it is a vast majority of existing customers with experience with the game. But hate is a bit strong, although I do hate turnips, so maybe not. And I do hate what their late design decisions did to what could have been, and still could be a great flight sim if they see fit to change it.

"hate" is standard procedure to invalidate someones opinion/critisism - you automatically win if you're the first one to tag the other as a hater.
Silly I know.

#4026499 - 10/24/14 08:09 AM Re: All this slagging of BoS?? Really..! [Re: Bearcat99]  
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I paid my $100 up front, i like BOS, some of it is fantastic, some of it stinks.
I wish them well and hope they make more add-ons.

But...

They wont get a penny more from me until i see them heading in the direction i want.

#4026511 - 10/24/14 09:06 AM Re: All this slagging of BoS?? Really..! [Re: Bearcat99]  
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I can see BC's frustration, and he does make some valid points.
Let's not forget that choice is extremely limited in the genre, and as he has said, what other options are there?
Well, I won't pretend that I see BoS in the same light as the developers see themselves... as some sort of true successor to the legendary IL2 name, it's anything but at the moment.

Having said that, I have to say that there are elements within the game that are pretty outstanding, but couple to that the fact that they have made some critical mistakes in their design process (my opinion) that have led to a fracture in the community just prior to release... not good!

To their credit, they have stood by those design choices, but have made the right noises in stating that once the game is released they would look at things again and see how they might improve matters.

Time will tell. For my part, I still play the game, and I still advise anyone who is on the fence to give it a go and buy it.
On a personal level, my gut feeling is that it will get better. The dev's must realise that steps have to be taken to change attitudes and also to encourage people to buy further products.

Also to BC's credit, he has taken part in discussions on the BoS forums detailing what he sees as bad design choices and things that he dislikes about the current state of the sim, so I would not put him in the 'blind fanboi' category just yet smile

Currently, I'm just about to finish off the campaign, and I'm doing that partly to say I have played it and can commentate on it's good and bad points. After that I will probably shelve it and go back to DCS until there is some headway on the sims progress or the MP side of things takes off...

Stay calm everyone... and keep flying!

#4026523 - 10/24/14 10:31 AM Re: All this slagging of BoS?? Really..! [Re: Bearcat99]  
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I paid for a sim, they delivered a game. Dress it up any way you want to. I don't really care any more, I am having a ball in CoD, and will be playing it for years to come, hopefully soon in another theatre when TF5 arrives.
I would like to think 1C realises what a short sighted monumental **** up they made when they cancelled CoD in favour of BoS...
If I ever get bored of CoD, I have most of the DCS modules, but haven't even played with most of them.

Last edited by Speyer; 10/24/14 10:35 AM.
#4026539 - 10/24/14 12:12 PM Re: All this slagging of BoS?? Really..! [Re: Trooper117]  
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TGIF!! Good morning Gents! Where do I begin...

It's funny because in many ways this reminds me of back when the mods first hit and some folks were loosing their minds about it calling it literally the end of the world as we know it.. interestingly enough that was 7 years ago almost to the day... I was criticized for going to AAA and asking folks to get a grip and I was criticized at UBI for doing the same thing.. IL2 is still here bigger and better than ever..

Ok so here we go...

Originally Posted By: Pizzicato
Originally Posted By: Bearcat99
stuff

I still don't get why you're so incensed about people not liking the game. They paid their money, they're entitled to their opinions.
Ultimately, the nature of the commentary is just a barometer of the general sentiment. If people were generally enjoying the game, the commentary around it would be largely positive. If people are generally disliking the game, the inverse is going to be true.
Similarly, people are going to comment on what they're passionate about - for better and for worse. The likes of Whirlwind of Vietnam (remember that) passed largely without comment because nobody expected much from it in the first place. Expectation around BoS were quite different, though. Some of it related to the IL-2 name, some of it to 777's previous work, some of it to the initial promises that were made and some of it to the hugely promising early builds.
Ultimately, however, it's fallen (very) short for a number of people. Those people cared about the game and were emotionally invested in its success. When people feel badly let down about something that matters to them, they react strongly and vocally.
In that regard, I guess I've just answered my own question, i.e. "I still don't get why you're so incensed about people not liking the game?"
You care passionately enough about the project that you're determined to close your eyes to its shortcomings and defend it to the death against all-comers. Other people care passionately enough about the project that can't see the positives for the negatives and they want to vent their frustrations that it's all fallen so badly short at the final hurdle.
Ultimately, it's just two sides of the exact same coin.


First of all ... I am not incensed... I'm not. Also .. my comments are not about people not liking the sim... They are indeed entitled to their opinions.. and there is much to NOT like. My eyes are wide open to it's flaws and as I said I have stated my opinion of them more than once in private and in public. I am passionate about the genre... my passion is more directed to a concern for the genre than just BoS. I also stated that more than once. I still maintain that warts and all BoS in it's current state is not as horrible as some make it out to be. At it's core it is still a very viable platform to move forward on as far as a next gen WWII sim and it also offers the greatest possibilities of moving on with full developer support. I also maintain that warts and all it is not and will never be War Thunder. The "grinding" in BoS is not the same as the "grinding" in WT. I also maintain my premise that the release of BoS is indeed the finest release of a new WWII flight sim in over a decade. It is. Compared to the release of all the other WWII dedicated sims over the past 10 years ... which one do some of you folks think had a smoother, more promising development and release than this? There isn't one. Which other WWII dedicated sim released over the last decade has the potential to become a truer, better sim over time and actually expand to other theaters with additional content within a reasonable time frame with full developer support? There isn't one.

Originally Posted By: FlyingMonkey
What I found a bit disturbing about the whole BOS business is how it became so personal, with some really intense personal attacks directed at Loft or Jason. I'm personally not happy with a whole number of things regarding IL2 BOS (I hate the whole XP grinding thing, the locking of settings...), but I think we are all better off if we don't pretend to read in the mind of Loft or Jason and let ourselves drawn into conspiracy theories which are unhealthy and made me want to avoid looking at any forum section related to IL2 BOS (I know that Loft isn't a friendly figure or a diplomat, and probably doesn't have much respect for the hardcore simmers, but I still prefer to ignore that and just look at what really happens over time rather than focus on forum wars).

It looks like things are starting to calm down now, and while it's clear that IL2 BOS didn't turn out to be like what most of us thought it would be (a ww2 version of ROF. I remember Jason selling it like this), it's not an arcade game, the grinding is not as horrible as something like WT (thanks goodness. I still hate it though), but I'm not sure anybody can predict where the game will go later on and what success or failure would mean for the franchise at that point. Personally, I'll use BOS much less thant I envisioned at first, but I feel it's going to take at least a year before we can clearly see whether 3rd party initiatives can save some aspect of the game. Jason expressed his support for something like the PWCG for BOS, and that would make a huge difference - when I look at RoF single player, this is what made me stay and keep playing single player. Are we sure yet that the same type of campaign generator won't be possible for IL2 BOS? Until I see a clear answer to that I'll still allow myself a little bit of optimism, but that's just my 2 cents.


This man pretty much understands where I am coming from. Although I think we can predict to a certain extent where this sim will go if people who already bought and paid for it slag it and tear it down... and don't support it and others take their grievances to heart and do not buy it. I think we have a pretty good idea where it will end up. The fact that this is the only successful launch of the closest thing to a dedicated WWII sim in a decade says much about the state of the genre. Gents this genre cannot stand a disjointed mob. As I said ... I am not a happy camper at all about quite a few things... but I am not going to go on and on about them or stand on a hill and announce them to the world because A)In spite of what I and many others do not like about BoS there is much to like and that is a fact. To say otherwise is denying the facts. B)This team cranked this product out in under two years and it is not all bad and I will not sit by when people act like it is total garbage, when it isn't. C)This genre is something I am passionate about as well... and pickings are slim. If this sim does not get support it will die and we will be where we are instead of where we have the potential to go.


Originally Posted By: toonces
I think Bearcat's point is sort of that ^. In that, there isn't really another nextgen option on the table, so instead of everyone crying in their beer, taking their toys and going home, there's value in all of us getting behind this title with as much support as possible.
This presumes that by doing so the game will evolve into something we want.
TBH I haven't followed BoS closely enough to know what the long-term roadmap is.


He gets it too...

Originally Posted By: lokitexas
Originally Posted By: toonces
I think Bearcat's point is sort of that ^. In that, there isn't really another nextgen option on the table, so instead of everyone crying in their beer, taking their toys and going home, there's value in all of us getting behind this title with as much support as possible. This presumes that by doing so the game will evolve into something we want.
TBH I haven't followed BoS closely enough to know what the long-term roadmap is.


So because there is no other nextgen option I am to support this because??? Silly way of thinking. I know you ordered a steak, but the raw hamburger is what we have, so buy it. No thanks.

I disagree there is no other options. CLoD is still nextgen IMO. Looks much better than BoS, feels better than BoS to me. DCS with the new EDGE/Normandy map will be good, although its not right around the corner. And honestly, I have a much better time right now playing IL46 with HSFX and DCG. I dont need to support a game that has nothing for me right now.

Maybe in the future? We shall see where it goes. Is it going to swing in a good direction or bad? The path it took to get where it is today, I hope is not how they plan to continue.


You are reading what you want to into what I said not what I said. Did you already buy the sim? Good .. I am not asking you to spend another dime until you get what you want, or more of what you want than you have now. What I am saying is you do not have to tear down this. I never said there were no other options.. at the moment. I said there were no other options on the market right now that have full developer support with a better chance of expanding into a full blown dedicated WWII sim. I stand by that. CoD is a great option now but do you think that in 3 years there will be even 4 totally new aircraft and maybe two totally new maps in CoD? Unless these guys get some funding I doubt it. I would love to be proven wrong on that. There are 24 hours in a day and as dedicated and talented as these guys are they gotta eat. DCS? Yup it is a great option.. and from what I have been hearing the Spit & P-47 are still coming... They are on my list from my KS pledge.. I already have my 190 ... Great stuff... but will it ever become a full blown dedicated WWII sim? Your guess is as good as mine... but we know that BoS can grow ... unless it gets chopped to pieces after the first fruits just start coming off the branches.. What I am saying is .. let the tree grow before you try to cut it down.. You will probably wind up with more tasty fruit to take home as opposed to cutting it down because the first fruits were a little tart.


Originally Posted By: Blade_Meister
Bearcat99..........., you are a joking right? Bearcat99, I am sure you are of good intention, but please don't come on here and say I am an idiot again.
Edit: WOW! just WOW! Dude.
Originally Posted By: Bearcat99
but think about what I said.. what I really said. Not what you think I said.



I didn't call you an idiot..... and why does everyone keep bringing up the fact that I am a moderator at BoS.. as if 1) I was the only moderator at BoS ... newsflash.. I am not. Or that somehow because of the fact that I am a moderator at BoS means that I cannot post elsewhere...

Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
I paid my $100 up front, i like BOS, some of it is fantastic, some of it stinks.
I wish them well and hope they make more add-ons.
But...
They wont get a penny more from me until i see them heading in the direction i want.


Just curious.. will you still give it more of a go since you bought it or are you done with it for now?

Originally Posted By: Trooper117
I can see BC's frustration, and he does make some valid points.
Let's not forget that choice is extremely limited in the genre, and as he has said, what other options are there?
Well, I won't pretend that I see BoS in the same light as the developers see themselves... as some sort of true successor to the legendary IL2 name, it's anything but at the moment.

Having said that, I have to say that there are elements within the game that are pretty outstanding, but couple to that the fact that they have made some critical mistakes in their design process (my opinion) that have led to a fracture in the community just prior to release... not good!

To their credit, they have stood by those design choices, but have made the right noises in stating that once the game is released they would look at things again and see how they might improve matters.

Time will tell. For my part, I still play the game, and I still advise anyone who is on the fence to give it a go and buy it.
On a personal level, my gut feeling is that it will get better. The dev's must realise that steps have to be taken to change attitudes and also to encourage people to buy further products.

Also to BC's credit, he has taken part in discussions on the BoS forums detailing what he sees as bad design choices and things that he dislikes about the current state of the sim, so I would not put him in the 'blind fanboi' category just yet smile

Currently, I'm just about to finish off the campaign, and I'm doing that partly to say I have played it and can commentate on it's good and bad points. After that I will probably shelve it and go back to DCS until there is some headway on the sims progress or the MP side of things takes off...

Stay calm everyone... and keep flying!


thumbsup


Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
#4026558 - 10/24/14 12:34 PM Re: All this slagging of BoS?? Really..! [Re: Bearcat99]  
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Well at one point I attempted to have a reasonable discussion about the CEM, Jason would have none of it, he seeming to believe I was part of some conspiracy bent on trashing the game. lol So what comes around goes around

Nicely said Trooper, even if I don't really want to hear it lol biggrin

I get single digit framerates and currently this game is unplayable for me

Keep up the good fight Bearcat smile

#4026586 - 10/24/14 01:34 PM Re: All this slagging of BoS?? Really..! [Re: bisher]  
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Originally Posted By: bisher
Well at one point I attempted to have a reasonable discussion about the CEM, Jason would have none of it, he seeming to believe I was part of some conspiracy bent on trashing the game. lol So what comes around goes around

Nicely said Trooper, even if I don't really want to hear it lol biggrin

I get single digit framerates and currently this game is unplayable for me

Keep up the good fight Bearcat smile


Well that ain't good.. and as for Jason.. well guys... and he'd probably get bent if he knew I shared this but you guys have no idea some of the stuff him and the team have gotten in their in boxes.. I mean some really hatefull vitriolic stuff that just does not belong in a venture like this. One would think that Jason and crew broke into some of these folks' houses or cost them their jobs or stole their wives or had sex with their mothers or something.. or some other really bad painful thing.. It really is ugly. So after like years of this.. because for Jason this started in RoF.. you just get tired of it and you cut it off at the knees when it n looks like it's coming your way...

Look fellas.. I just thgink we need to give it more time.. They have said over and over that right now they are concentrating on getting the sim out on time so they can get more from it in order to continue.. so when guys go around saying "Don't buy this cause I think it sucks cause it doesn't have XXX totally ignoring the good it does have.. and as i keep repeating there is some good in it.. In the long run that only hurts the genre.. We don't have a lot of choices. We need to at least be forward thinking in our criticisms and results oriented.. instead of shooting from the hip just to get our beef out.

.. and before some one makes a pot calling the kettle black statement .. I think I was pretty cogent in expressing my concerns in the context of the bigger picture.


Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
#4026595 - 10/24/14 01:55 PM Re: All this slagging of BoS?? Really..! [Re: Bearcat99]  
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Originally Posted By: Bearcat99
so when guys go around saying "Don't buy this cause I think it sucks cause it doesn't have XXX totally ignoring the good it does have.. and as i keep repeating there is some good in it.. In the long run that only hurts the genre.. We don't have a lot of choices. We need to at least be forward thinking in our criticisms and results oriented.. instead of shooting from the hip just to get our beef out.


I disagree vehemently. First most people are angry because they feel lied to during the preorder phase. Then they are angry about the overall dumbing down of the game (not just simulation wise but basic game mechanics and function wise.) Then they are angry with the way the developers handled the community interactions.

I also disagree with criticism hurting the genera. BoS is NOT the type of game I want to succeed in this genera. If it becomes a huge success then the next game will be exactly similar or it will be 10x worse in the hopes of focusing on what made it "successful". The last thing I want for the flight sim genera is for a company to be successful with a game like BoS. The second from last thing I want is for a company to be successful after the abhorrent things they have done during the development of BoS.

I am tired of a developer making a poor game and acting like spoiled children and then being told "this is the only person who wants to make a sim. We should be blindly supporting them." I call BS. Not only should we NOT support them we should be vocal so that the next person who comes along and wants to make a sim (and there will always be a next sim developer. They have said sims are dying since the 90s and we still get them.) they know exactly what NOT to do and we wont have to deal with this BS that we have now with BoS. And if the next dev comes along and tries to do the same thing then **** them too.

And if a dev wants to come along and make a game like BoS with dumbed down features and etc then more power to them. I am not against people making games like that but for the love of god dont lie about it in hopes to secure preorders and then treat your community like #%&*$# over the course of the Alpha testing. That #%&*$# wont fly not even if you tweak the flight models.

#4026597 - 10/24/14 01:59 PM Re: All this slagging of BoS?? Really..! [Re: Bearcat99]  
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 273
Logan Offline
Head Tater peeler
Logan  Offline
Head Tater peeler
Member

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 273
Just because Waffle house is the only restaurant on the corner doesn't make it the best! That being said... Bearcat isn't the only MOD that said wtf we're they thinking? I don't like some things, well a lot of things in the game but I am giving it a try, and I #%&*$# about it a lot when it was first announced! I can't stand this SP stuff but I figured I'd try it anyways. There were other ways they could have used this SP grind thing to help noobs learn the ropes by making it optional but they didn't. I bought it twice, once as a gift so like how it is or not I'm stuck with it they way it is. I do go to DCS, ROF and TFcliffs more. I just get bored of the SP stuff after an hour and have to put it up.

I've said it before IF the sales are not where they thought we may see the unlocks/XP go away. I'm only going to play SP in small amounts so I don't pop a blood vessel smile As for the hate mail to the crew that's just wrong.


Logan,
Head Tater peeler,OIC of nothing
#4026663 - 10/24/14 03:32 PM Re: All this slagging of BoS?? Really..! [Re: Master]  
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,806
Bearcat99 Offline
Senior Member
Bearcat99  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,806
USA
Originally Posted By: Master
Originally Posted By: Bearcat99
so when guys go around saying "Don't buy this cause I think it sucks cause it doesn't have XXX totally ignoring the good it does have.. and as i keep repeating there is some good in it.. In the long run that only hurts the genre.. We don't have a lot of choices. We need to at least be forward thinking in our criticisms and results oriented.. instead of shooting from the hip just to get our beef out.


I disagree vehemently. First most people are angry because they feel lied to during the preorder phase. Then they are angry about the overall dumbing down of the game (not just simulation wise but basic game mechanics and function wise.) Then they are angry with the way the developers handled the community interactions.

I also disagree with criticism hurting the genera. BoS is NOT the type of game I want to succeed in this genera. If it becomes a huge success then the next game will be exactly similar or it will be 10x worse in the hopes of focusing on what made it "successful". The last thing I want for the flight sim genera is for a company to be successful with a game like BoS. The second from last thing I want is for a company to be successful after the abhorrent things they have done during the development of BoS.

I am tired of a developer making a poor game and acting like spoiled children and then being told "this is the only person who wants to make a sim. We should be blindly supporting them." I call BS. Not only should we NOT support them we should be vocal so that the next person who comes along and wants to make a sim (and there will always be a next sim developer. They have said sims are dying since the 90s and we still get them.) they know exactly what NOT to do and we wont have to deal with this BS that we have now with BoS. And if the next dev comes along and tries to do the same thing then **** them too.

And if a dev wants to come along and make a game like BoS with dumbed down features and etc then more power to them. I am not against people making games like that but for the love of god dont lie about it in hopes to secure preorders and then treat your community like #%&*$# over the course of the Alpha testing. That #%&*$# wont fly not even if you tweak the flight models.


This is not a poor sim. At it's core it is a good stable product. There is questionable implementation of some of it's options or the lack thereof but the FMs and DMs have not been "dumbed down" just because they don't measure up to what some think they should be. There is more right with BoS than wrong with it, whether you agree with me or not is moot. It's funny.. Some of you same folks bought into DCS WWII hook line and sinker dispite the shellacking you got from CoD. If CoD had not been hacked where would it be now? What some of you fail to understand is.. if this kind of attitude continues there won't be any developers willing to take on a full blown dedicated WWII sim of the quality that so many are craving for. All we will avge will be the games.. and BoS is not WT I don't care how many times you guys keep insinuating that. At it's easiest difficulty it is still more sim than WT.


Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
#4026675 - 10/24/14 03:46 PM Re: All this slagging of BoS?? Really..! [Re: Bearcat99]  
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,984
Master Offline
meh
Master  Offline
meh
Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,984
Originally Posted By: Bearcat99
This is not a poor sim. At it's core it is a good stable product. There is questionable implementation of some of it's options or the lack thereof but the FMs and DMs have not been "dumbed down" just because they don't measure up to what some think they should be. There is more right with BoS than wrong with it, whether you agree with me or not is moot. It's funny.. Some of you same folks bought into DCS WWII hook line and sinker dispite the shellacking you got from CoD. If CoD had not been hacked where would it be now? What some of you fail to understand is.. if this kind of attitude continues there won't be any developers willing to take on a full blown dedicated WWII sim of the quality that so many are craving for. All we will avge will be the games.. and BoS is not WT I don't care how many times you guys keep insinuating that. At it's easiest difficulty it is still more sim than WT.


First I didnt buy into DCS WWII because again I dont want a sim by those developers. What was picked up by the official DCS guys may or may not ever see the light of day but I am glad the DCS Kickstarter died for the same reasons I dont want to see BoS be successful.

I also disagree with the FMs and DMs being any good in BoS. There are huge loop holes and broken mechanics with them. The game feels amazing and very life like if you are just flying around but as soon as you drop into heavy combat maneuvers the reality peels away and you are left with something so broken that it is hard to continue to play it.

The bit about, " there won't be any developers willing to" is just an opinion of yours. In my opinion it is also an extremely shallow and narrow minded opinion. To think that just because one game fails and whole genera dies or that no one will ever again try to make a flight sim is laughable at best.

I will agree with you on one thing though and that is CloD would be dead without TF. TF saved that sim. But that will NEVER happen to BoS or RoF because they are closed systems that require logging into a master authentication server. Sure you can have small mods but the type of total conversion mod that TF did for CloD will never happen to BoS in it's current implementation.

I've also never insinuated that BoS is WT. Just that it is the kind of tripe I dont want to succeed in this genera.

#4026689 - 10/24/14 04:18 PM Re: All this slagging of BoS?? Really..! [Re: Master]  
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22
Jugdriver Offline
Junior Member
Jugdriver  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22
The Mountains
Originally Posted By: Master
I am glad the DCS Kickstarter died for the same reasons I dont want to see BoS be successful.


I am kind of curious what you mean by this statment? I don't really see any correlation between the two.

JD


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#4026705 - 10/24/14 04:42 PM Re: All this slagging of BoS?? Really..! [Re: Bearcat99]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,743
HeinKill Offline
Senior Member
HeinKill  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,743
Cloud based
Æ
Originally Posted By: Bearcat99


Well that ain't good.. and as for Jason.. well guys... and he'd probably get bent if he knew I shared this but you guys have no idea some of the stuff him and the team have gotten in their in boxes.. I mean some really hatefull vitriolic stuff that just does not belong in a venture like this. One would think that Jason and crew broke into some of these folks' houses or cost them their jobs or stole their wives or had sex with their mothers or something.. or some other really bad painful thing.. It really is ugly. So after like years of this.. because for Jason this started in RoF.. you just get tired of it and you cut it off at the knees when it n looks like it's coming your way...


Or, as a professional in the entertainment industry, you choose not to engage, ignore it, stay off the forums and avoid projecting a negative image of your project through your interactions with haters and let your appointed community spokespeople do the PR without intervening, Do that and the personal vitriol goes away because the haters dont have an easy target.

Imagine if Lady Gaga engaged with all her haters,.. Just sayin.

Anyway, on the OP, seems a pointless discussion to me. Some will like, some will not, most will fall in between (that's me) and who cares?

H


[Linked Image]
#4026744 - 10/24/14 05:59 PM Re: All this slagging of BoS?? Really..! [Re: Bearcat99]  
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 885
Desode Offline
Ps3 & 360 GT : DESODE
Desode  Offline
Ps3 & 360 GT : DESODE
Member

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 885
Bearcat99,,, I just don't understand why they couldn't at least have made everything unlocked for the Founders ???

Would that not have eliminated over half of these complaints ?

There is no doubt that the majority of people that put down the founder money didn't want to deal with ANY unlock BS.

In All Honesty they could still do that and make a Lot of people that invested their hard earned money in this project way more happy !!!

I Don't understand any reasoning that would say not to do this..
People that gave there support from the start , should not have to deal with ANY Unlock.


Sincerely Desode


Forumrunners.com When you crave teamwork at the Highest Level ! Were waiting for you !


#4026837 - 10/24/14 08:41 PM Re: All this slagging of BoS?? Really..! [Re: Desode]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 601
SkullBiscuit Offline
Member
SkullBiscuit  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 601
USA
Originally Posted By: Desode
Bearcat99,,, I just don't understand why they couldn't at least have made everything unlocked for the Founders ???

Would that not have eliminated over half of these complaints ?

There is no doubt that the majority of people that put down the founder money didn't want to deal with ANY unlock BS.

In All Honesty they could still do that and make a Lot of people that invested their hard earned money in this project way more happy !!!

I Don't understand any reasoning that would say not to do this..
People that gave there support from the start , should not have to deal with ANY Unlock.


Sincerely Desode




That's too simple and fair....and ignores the long running undercurrent of authoritarianism in Russian culture..

THAT particularly odious aspect of Russian culture has manifested itself in spades with this Dev team

Now get back to Grinding....Comrade!


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