Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
#4024965 - 10/20/14 07:29 PM Boom and Zoom? Someone please tell the French ...  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,532
DukeIronHand Offline
Hotshot
DukeIronHand  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,532
High over the Front
...when I am trying to be clever.
Jasta 11, April 3, 1917 at 0536.
Myself, Sebastian Festner, and MvR himself are detailed to escort some two seaters over the lines to bomb an allied aerodrome. Cross the front lines but no flak probably because of the heavy cloud cover. Near the target we are attacked by my old friends the French in their Nieiport XXIII's.
The Baron hoicks into a left turn after a second as I try to find an enemy I follow. Try to dogfight for a few seconds when I hear the "bang, bang, bang" of me being hit. Alright boom and zoom time. I plan to do a shallow high-speed dive out of the furball and once clear regain altitude and come back to engage. I do so and congratulating myself on my cleverness I look behind me and see a Nieuport firmly and closely on my tail. Another aircraft is close behind him and in the light of the rising sun it looks to be red. Thinking that my AI buddies have come to the rescue I start to relax. Nope! Another Frenchman.
I tried diving steeper and went from 5000 feet to 500 feet and they didn't budge an inch. It was like I had a tow strap on them.
Finally about 10 miles behind German lines they gave it up. I turn after them hoping to get a sneaky one in but more Nieports were coming so I gave it up and turned for home. Looking at the AAR I see MvR managed to bag one - of course.

Next time I read in the history books about the "agile" and "speedy" Albs tearing up the Allies during a bloody April I will laugh. Luckily for the Kaiset I am just a computerized German pilot in a computer game or the war might be over a lot sooner than he wants!

#4025042 - 10/20/14 11:40 PM Re: Boom and Zoom? Someone please tell the French ... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,027
Wolfstriked Offline
Member
Wolfstriked  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,027
NYC
Would LOVE to see this fixed.

#4025057 - 10/21/14 12:23 AM Re: Boom and Zoom? Someone please tell the French ... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,532
DukeIronHand Offline
Hotshot
DukeIronHand  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,532
High over the Front
And to add insult to injury when I turned around trying to sneak up on them after they turned away they climbed away from me, and pulled away, with no problem at all.

I don't have the numbers in front of me but the Nieuports were damned fine aircraft. Certainly more maneuverable I think and a better climber I believe. Not as fast in a straight line.
How fine compared to the Alb I really don't know.

#4025065 - 10/21/14 12:36 AM Re: Boom and Zoom? Someone please tell the French ... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,027
Wolfstriked Offline
Member
Wolfstriked  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,027
NYC
What Albatros are you flying?If its a D.III then a Nieuport 23 does have a climb advantage judging from wiki.
exitstageleft

Albatros D.IIIRate of climb: 4.5 m/s (886ft/min)
Nieuport 23Rate of climb: 5.8 m/s (1,100 ft/min)

#4025076 - 10/21/14 12:58 AM Re: Boom and Zoom? Someone please tell the French ... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,532
DukeIronHand Offline
Hotshot
DukeIronHand  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,532
High over the Front
That's what I said.

#4025079 - 10/21/14 01:08 AM Re: Boom and Zoom? Someone please tell the French ... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,027
Wolfstriked Offline
Member
Wolfstriked  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,027
NYC
I see that now. popcorn

#4025082 - 10/21/14 01:13 AM Re: Boom and Zoom? Someone please tell the French ... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,532
DukeIronHand Offline
Hotshot
DukeIronHand  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,532
High over the Front
cheers

#4025252 - 10/21/14 03:32 PM Re: Boom and Zoom? Someone please tell the French ... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 907
Nietzsche Offline
Member
Nietzsche  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 907
Grevenbroich, Germany
Perform a downward Looping. AI never follows. If AI booms into you with a lot of speed from above, you can also "hit the Brakes" by going into a quick, near-stall-climb. He will try to follow, but he will pass you by, because he is too fast. You will not always be able to instantly follow your Attacker, because AI always goes into a sharp turn after such a failed run, but the odds are at least even, then.
Personally, I think that only the N24 is good enough to be a little bit dangerous for the Alb3...

#4025344 - 10/21/14 08:37 PM Re: Boom and Zoom? Someone please tell the French ... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,532
DukeIronHand Offline
Hotshot
DukeIronHand  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,532
High over the Front
Do you mean an outside, or negative G loop?
I presume the effects on the Alb carburetor during this maneuver are not modeled?
Or a Split-S?

"Personally, I think that only the N24 is good enough to be a little bit dangerous for the Alb3..."

Then you are a better pilot then me my friend or I keep putting myself into stupid situations!

#4025358 - 10/21/14 09:08 PM Re: Boom and Zoom? Someone please tell the French ... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,394
ArisFuser Offline
Member
ArisFuser  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,394
SPAD VIIs, almost all Nieuports, even Strutters, and of course Camels or SE5s are reasonable matches or for the Alb III,..in this sim.

#4025632 - 10/22/14 02:34 PM Re: Boom and Zoom? Someone please tell the French ... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 907
Nietzsche Offline
Member
Nietzsche  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 907
Grevenbroich, Germany
Excuse my awkward way of describing Flying maneuvers - I'm more into Cars, normally ;-)
I mean, push the Stick, until you only see the Ground and keep pushing, until you see the Sky LOL
Your Stick-Movement should be progressive after your Plane looks down to the bottom and you gained some speed. Gas-Feeding-Problems are only implemented acoustically in the Game (until now...) - so your engine sounds somewhat creepy, but if you are in the mood, you can fly upside-down for as long as you want (good way to see what's happening below you).
When you have finished the Maneuver, the Enemy is always behind and above you, facing away from you and iniciating a turn (if he still wants to fight you)

Duke, I'm sure that I am NOT a better pilot than you (I'm playing this game for merely 2 Months or so), I'm just permanently looking on what AI does and what not.
For Example: AI cannot cut curves while pursuing (that would be extremely complicated to achieve)
You can press "j" after you have finished a Mission, and look out for some Dogfights happening. This is a great way to study AI Behaviors. This way you can exploit it, since you can see exactly, how AI reacts on certain moves.

Aris, on a One-on-One, the Spad7 is Cannon Fodder to the Alb, as soon as the Spad Pilot is silly enough to go into curve-fighting. Sometimes, the AI does that, but more often, it just B'n'Z. In this case, a tight curve is sufficient to clear the Situation. Sure, you won't have the slightest chance to catch a Spad in an Alb, but the Spad won't get your Alb, also, as long as the Attack isn't surprising you.
The N24 can definetly match an Alb3early in curves (I'm not sure about the N23), but the rest is clearly inferior. For example, you can easily manage 2 N17s simultaneously while drinking Coffee. 3 N17s gets a little hectic, though...
I totally agree with the Strutter. Don't exactly know why, but these things are dangerous.
I think I can also agree with Camels and SE5s. Haven't really tested that, yet, but I've already had some tough times against these Planes while sitting in better Aircrafts that an Alb3early...

#4025867 - 10/22/14 11:29 PM Re: Boom and Zoom? Someone please tell the French ... [Re: Nietzsche]  
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 662
Slick Wilhelm Offline
Member
Slick Wilhelm  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 662
Rochester, MN
Originally Posted By: Nietzsche
Excuse my awkward way of describing Flying maneuvers - I'm more into Cars, normally ;-)
I mean, push the Stick, until you only see the Ground and keep pushing, until you see the Sky LOL


What you are describing is a negative-G loop, which should be technically impossible in WWI-era planes. James Doolittle was the first person to successfully perform this maneuver, in 1927!


I7-9700k@4.9 GHZ
16 GB RAM
GTX 2080 8 GB VRAM
2 x 1 TB SSD
32" Dell S3220DGF curved gaming monitor @ 2560 x 1440p @ 165 Hz
Sound BlasterX G6 External USB sound card
Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro Headphones
Thrustmaster TM16000 FCS HOTAS
Logitec Pro Flight Pedals
TrackIR 5
#4026010 - 10/23/14 08:26 AM Re: Boom and Zoom? Someone please tell the French ... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,532
DukeIronHand Offline
Hotshot
DukeIronHand  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,532
High over the Front
With a fuel injected engine I suppose?

#4026069 - 10/23/14 12:53 PM Re: Boom and Zoom? Someone please tell the French ... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,879
RAF_Louvert Offline
BOC President; Pilot Extraordinaire; Humble Man
RAF_Louvert  Offline
BOC President; Pilot Extraordinaire; Humble Man
Senior Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,879
L'Etoile du Nord
.

Also, I don't think that most of the WWI kites would even be able to maintain structural integrity in a full neg-G loop. And if any of them could, and if you gave it a go, you'd better be praying to all that's holy that your lap and shoulder belts can take the strain.

.


[Linked Image]

Three RFC Brass Hats were strolling down a street in London. Two walked into a bar, the third one ducked.
_________________________________________________________________________

Former Cold War Warrior, USAF Security Service 1974-1978, E-4, Morse Systems Intercept, England, Europe, and points above.
"pippy-pahpah-pippy pah-pip-pah"

#4026087 - 10/23/14 02:29 PM Re: Boom and Zoom? Someone please tell the French ... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 907
Nietzsche Offline
Member
Nietzsche  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 907
Grevenbroich, Germany
Oh, then we can be lucky that the Dev's haven't implemented that, yet LOL
...but I guess it's just a matter of time, since Realism is one of the great Pros of this Game.
Hmmm... you are right. Under real conditions this maneuver wouldn't work. You need a lot of power to perform the 2nd part of the Loop - a stuttering, near stall Engine would't do it... and if it could, it would shredder your Plane to lots of very small pieces...
Rolling the Plane "upside up" (twice) during the Loop doesn't seem to such a good idea, also - at least I have problems keeping the aircraft stable and hinder it from tumbling like inside a washing machine...

#4029346 - 10/30/14 02:20 PM Re: Boom and Zoom? Someone please tell the French ... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 907
Nietzsche Offline
Member
Nietzsche  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 907
Grevenbroich, Germany
Sorry, I was telling rubbish:
I thoroughly rechecked "Upside-Down-Flight-Mode" yesterday, and you indeed have a significant Power Loss in addition to the Engine-Stutter-Sound. You still can fly around as you see fit (the engine won't stop) but you cannot really climb or do tricks...

#4029383 - 10/30/14 03:48 PM Re: Boom and Zoom? Someone please tell the French ... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,532
DukeIronHand Offline
Hotshot
DukeIronHand  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,532
High over the Front
Cool. Thanks for the update.
Luckily I have not had to try it yet.


Moderated by  Polovski 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
Carnival Cruise Ship Fire....... Again
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:58 PM
Baltimore Bridge Collapse
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:51 PM
The Oldest WWII Veterans
by F4UDash4. 03/24/24 09:21 PM
They got fired after this.
by Wigean. 03/20/24 08:19 PM
Grown ups joke time
by NoFlyBoy. 03/18/24 10:34 PM
Anyone Heard from Nimits?
by F4UDash4. 03/18/24 10:01 PM
RIP Gemini/Apollo astronaut Tom Stafford
by semmern. 03/18/24 02:14 PM
10 years after 3/8/2014
by NoFlyBoy. 03/17/24 10:25 AM
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0