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#4025994 - 10/23/14 06:22 AM So what makes a good Tactical game? Of course you need to define what that is.  
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Totally related to the thread about the lowest point of tactical sims.

Really curious what folks on here think about this.

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#4026100 - 10/23/14 02:43 PM Re: So what makes a good Tactical game? Of course you need to define what that is. [Re: FlashBurn]  
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Open maps with multiple routes, entrances and exits while using methodic preplanning or on the fly, adaptive issuing of orders/changes of orders while implementing a wide variety of weapons and equipment personally as well as with the help of AI or human controlled team members with the freedom to pull off a clean, well orchestrated maneuver or the freedom to commit a sloppy exercise that one can learn from and improve upon.


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#4026131 - 10/23/14 03:53 PM Re: So what makes a good Tactical game? Of course you need to define what that is. [Re: FlashBurn]  
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#4026311 - 10/23/14 10:47 PM Re: So what makes a good Tactical game? Of course you need to define what that is. [Re: FlashBurn]  
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Obviously, having the tactical aspects is important (multiple paths of attack, slower paced, lethality, team work, etc.) but just as important is an engrossing experience to carry those things out in.

It's no coincidence that the tactical shooters we loved the most also had really good mission design and stories (OFP, HD2, Vietcong, etc.).


#4026332 - 10/23/14 11:41 PM Re: So what makes a good Tactical game? Of course you need to define what that is. [Re: FlashBurn]  
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Yes forgot about Vietcong. Another little gem there. But more a realistic FPS than tactical game. Still...ya good times.

I think to much focus has gone into lots of guns. Here is what I mean. Just how different from an M16/m4 is an FNC, G33, g41, G36, ak 74, ak100 series, famas, scar whatever, or name your 5.56/5.45 gun here. The answer is not much. If you take Hidden and Dangerous 2 (or 1) or Vietcong they both had a decent selection of arms, but ended up pretty balanced in a game sense. Made the actual gun play pretty interesting. It was generally more than spray and pray. In Arma series this is totally possible. Arma 3 when I was playing a lot of KOTH was a heck of alot of spray. And it worked a bit to well. So I say has to focus on good historical and realistic gun play that also needs to be game balanced. Here is where a PVP game like RO2 sort of went mildly off the rails. The gun play with rifles is pretty groovy. A lot right there IMO. But its mangled with SMG's everywhere that are a bit TOO good and things like MG34 with 100 round belts and the like. With few real penalties to using it. H&D 2 did not fall into that hole and focused on the Bren gun and cz26 ( well the German version that they adopted). In MP good call. In single, well blaaa. And the SMG's where not the kill all gun either.

So having a good selection of guns, good. Huge selection of guns takes away time and money from other stuff. OFP had alot of guns. But was limited to ak74 variants and m16's at first. With of course m60's and pk's. Which where damned dangerous but kind of hard to run and gun with those.

Need a good enemy and friendly ai. Arma 2's system of pick up your buddy or have the ai pick you up I thought was a good game land balance thing. Why arma 3 dropped that, I find odd. A lot the games like H&D 2 and vietcong where not true free roaming games. But you had some choices. Sometimes a lot of choices on how to mount an attack. Helps the AI. I have never seen any ai in any game that handles open world 360 degree security all that well. Although the Stalker series (no, not quite tactical but sure fun) did a decent job. Although there still the player was generally forced to go into funneled areas where the AI ended up with help from the land form.


I personally find 4 or so man teams the easiest to manage in a true tactical game. More is not so great. But can work perhaps with a good ai with minimal baby sitting. Maybe broken down to a couple fire teams in a squad. So having good management tools for SP with an ai that is not stupid or suicidal. Arma at times is both those and can also be quite good. But you never know. I think this is due to the true 360 degree danger from anywhere. And really LARGE maps. Which is good and bad. Arma series its run to the highest point and shoot ai out of their range way WAY to much. Why on earth are the enemy ai in arma always in freaking open fields with dead ground everywhere. LOL.


Just some thoughts there. biggrin But it seems that 180 degree freedom of action seems to be a better experience than 360 in a huge open world from my experience. Well when AI are involved.



OH and I would love to see the return of morphing terrain. The ability for explosives to dig shell craters and players and ai to dig basic things like shallow fox wholes real time. Also some decent well modeled realistic vehicles. Not things like main battle tanks so much. More like APC's, half tracks, armored cars, jeeps, land rovers, maybe a well balanced light tank with low velocity guns (like m24 or scorpion recce vehicle). And where vehicles with a plow could dig themselves in a bit. More real world vehicles that things like Steal Beasts or say Kharkov 1942 does. Where a human driver can freaking stall the vehicle. Where a manual gear shift gives the player something to do while driving as an option. But not these incredibly unrealistic vehicles like arma series does. You know, game studios, hire, consult, or go find someone with a private owned tank/apc and drive the bloody thing to see how wrong those are. biggrin

Last edited by FlashBurn; 10/24/14 12:04 AM.
#4035153 - 11/12/14 07:58 PM Re: So what makes a good Tactical game? Of course you need to define what that is. [Re: FlashBurn]  
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IMO almost any game where you have to use coordinated teamwork and tactics to get the upper hand could be considered 'tactical'. Even CoD could be more of a tactical shooter if played right. I think it's more down to personal preference of how "tactical" do you really want to be?

When I was into Counter Strike Source, the clan I was in had skirmishes and matches, where two teams of 5 would go at it. It got tactical when we could plan our strategy like routes and ambush points; but in the pub sessions (usually 32v32) it was pretty much a free-for-all.

Of course the games like Arma and RO2 do require more tactics to play effectively, and going "lone wolf" (i.e. not working as a team) will almost always get you killed.

Personally I enjoy the more tactic-driven games, as working together and accomplishing objectives is more rewarding then just getting points. I also get more of a "rush" when the #%&*$# hits the fan and all your intricate planning goes out the window lol!

#4035624 - 11/14/14 12:05 AM Re: So what makes a good Tactical game? Of course you need to define what that is. [Re: FlashBurn]  
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Originally Posted By: FlashBurn

I think to much focus has gone into lots of guns.


The more the better, unless they start adding in a bunch of crappy guns that have no place on the battle field (Desert Eagles) or protoype stuff that will never see widespread use (XM8, random AR variants small companies make). Good, realistic & tactical gameplay plus lots of gear options don't have to be contradicting. The ideal tactical shooter would have both. The problem is most games have neither.

Although I would like to see a lot of detail put into weapons... things like increase in muzzle report from a 10" MK18 over a 20" M16. Or lower chances for a 5.56 round to fragment out of a short 10" barrel compared to that of a 20". Add in weapon collision and the differences between the various weapons come to life.

But the fact is developers are not interested in making these types of games. They would rather make a co-op wave based game or PvP over advance squad commanding, planning, and weapons/gear that is very detailed. Just shove a bunch of Desert Eagles, .50 cal sniper rifles to use at point plant rank and an unlock system and they'll call it good.


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