#4025797 - 10/22/14 08:48 PM
Re: The lesson is ...
[Re: oldgrognard]
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,700
Peally
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Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,700
Wisconsin, USA
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Hell I coulda told you that
Scully: Victim died of multiple stab wounds. Mulder: *throws her a file* Ever heard of the knife alien?
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#4025818 - 10/22/14 09:29 PM
Re: The lesson is ...
[Re: oldgrognard]
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,111
Wrecking Crew
Smooth Operator
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Smooth Operator
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Colorado
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LOL Here is the new design -- WC
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#4025831 - 10/22/14 09:51 PM
Re: The lesson is ...
[Re: Wrecking Crew]
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 19,381
Ajay
newbie
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newbie
Veteran
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Brisbane OZ
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LOL Here is the new design -- WC at least the electrics still work.
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#4025846 - 10/22/14 10:37 PM
Re: The lesson is ...
[Re: Ajay]
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,181
DaBBQ
Bug Stompe....Quisling
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Bug Stompe....Quisling
Member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,181
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LOL Here is the new design -- WC at least the electrics still work. That's the lens flare effect for propaganda.
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#4025931 - 10/23/14 02:03 AM
Re: The lesson is ...
[Re: Pielstick]
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,699
NavyNuke99
One Man Wolfpack
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One Man Wolfpack
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Raleigh, NC
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Apart from the absolutely outstanding standard of technical journalism, the only thing I take away from that article is a ship broke down.
Wow.
In eleven years I've only ever sailed on one ship that didn't have a propulsion failure during my time on it. This. But you also forgot to mention the terrible, terrible translations of Chinese terms in at least one of those articles. Machine oven space? I think they mean boiler room there... Also, any ship that was initially half built, then stored for several years, in the corrosive environment of the ocean, is going to be a wreck. Same thing happens to that '57 BelAir that your great uncle has been storing in his barn since 1972- it's not going to turn over and run the first time you turn the key.
" And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction: 'I served in the United States Navy.'"- John F. Kennedy
"NUKE-ular. It's pronounced NUKE-ular."- Homer Simpson
AMD FX-8350 Vishera @ 4.0 Ghz ASUS Sabertooth 990FX R2.0 2x 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 @ 1600 Sapphire Radeon HD 7850 2GB CM Storm Series Trooper Samsung 840 series 500 GB OS/ Game drive WD Green 2TB Media Drive Thermaltake Black Widow 850W PSU
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#4025956 - 10/23/14 03:24 AM
Re: The lesson is ...
[Re: oldgrognard]
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Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 15,786
Haggart
I Fought Diablo
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I Fought Diablo
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The Lone Star State
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Our Garcia-class frigate in the late 70's was always having issues. At sea we called the ship the "whistling sh*tcan". It got a complete overhaul finally in dry dock .... on our first trip out of dry dock we had to be towed back for, "minor adjustments".
As to the Russian built carrier ....good lord.
"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
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#4025958 - 10/23/14 03:32 AM
Re: The lesson is ...
[Re: Haggart]
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,699
NavyNuke99
One Man Wolfpack
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One Man Wolfpack
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Raleigh, NC
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Our Garcia-class frigate in the late 70's was always having issues. At sea we called the ship the "whistling sh*tcan". It got a complete overhaul finally in dry dock .... on our first trip out of dry dock we had to be towed back for, "minor adjustments".
As to the Russian built carrier ....good lord. Oh, the stories that could be told about the Enterprise and all her maintenance woes... Especially trying to come out of the yards any time in the last twenty years or so she was in commission.
" And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction: 'I served in the United States Navy.'"- John F. Kennedy
"NUKE-ular. It's pronounced NUKE-ular."- Homer Simpson
AMD FX-8350 Vishera @ 4.0 Ghz ASUS Sabertooth 990FX R2.0 2x 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 @ 1600 Sapphire Radeon HD 7850 2GB CM Storm Series Trooper Samsung 840 series 500 GB OS/ Game drive WD Green 2TB Media Drive Thermaltake Black Widow 850W PSU
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#4026097 - 10/23/14 02:39 PM
Re: The lesson is ...
[Re: oldgrognard]
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master
Entil'zha
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Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel
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Space Coast, USA
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At a certain point you just shouldn't buy used!
The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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#4026167 - 10/23/14 05:09 PM
Re: The lesson is ...
[Re: oldgrognard]
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,078
oldgrognard
Administrator
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Administrator
Lifer
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,078
USA
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Pielstick and Navynuke, I understand and value your opinions since you both speak from experience. But, I think there is a world of difference between carriers that can't even conduct air operations and what you are speaking about. US and UK carriers have been conducting high OPTEMPO air operations around the world.
Every ship has its problems, but this is a bit different.
Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
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#4026211 - 10/23/14 06:39 PM
Re: The lesson is ...
[Re: Azshal]
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,989
Mechanus
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Posts: 1,989
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So I guess the USSR was focusing on RADAR/SAM and nukes, while the US played it more "Jack of all Trades"?
Well, don't forget the submarine fleet, which wouldn't have far to go from their home ports to fight. The USSR was always a land power, its focus was the the Eurasian landmass in one hemisphere. To use conventional forces as a means to an end anywhere on the globe isn't what it wanted to do, nor really could do- its more immediate enemies are right next door in Western Europe and China. As much as it sank itself with unrealistically bloated military budgets at the expense of the private sector, It didn't have unlimited resources, it had too much on its plate already. The way it had conceptualized WWIII had been born out from its experiences in WWII, from that perspective, the theory isn't illogical. The Soviets also regarded politics as a dimension in warfare that had no real Western counterpart. Because the assumption is a USSR/Warsaw Pact attack into Europe, the idea is to violently intimidate and confuse NATO into a peace deal. NATO isn't just a military alliance, it represents millions of real people who have real lives caught in the path, so the attack was designed to make the citizens force their governments to accept the existential situation. So for instance, The USSR and the Warsaw Pact had to defeat NATO in very quick time before the 'Battle of the Atlantic' could begin and reinforcements could arrive, the War was supposed to be over in days or weeks, not months or years- this did not require much of a surface fleet. A longer war would in theory swing in the balance for NATO (assuming it didn't erupt into a complete nuclear catastrophe). They didn't want to get into that. The initial shock and momentum of a full scale attack was designed to throw NATO off balance, exploit the politically weaker NATO command structure by attacking the joints where different NATO headquarters from different countries were mingled, separating the weaker member states from the rest of NATO, make them one by one secure a deal for their own peace.
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#4026265 - 10/23/14 08:31 PM
Re: The lesson is ...
[Re: oldgrognard]
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master
Entil'zha
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Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel
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Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
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Yes, because after being on the receiving end of one, they felt a blitzkrieg was the right way to go...even though they themselves defeated it and beat back the instigator to a final victory.
The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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#4026284 - 10/23/14 09:17 PM
Re: The lesson is ...
[Re: oldgrognard]
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,989
Mechanus
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The Soviet version of Blitzkrieg is Deep Battle- and it predicts that warfare is synergistic with political and economic and cultural objectives.
How do the Soviets overcome its own certain deficiencies such as possessing one primitive aircraft carrier? Well, it takes advantage of the fact that as the attacker, its operations take place in the enemy's territory, rather than its own. Waves and waves of escaping civilians will clog up road networks, stalling or isolating military traffic, and just as importantly provide cover for advancing Soviet forces as they are commingled with them, forcing NATO to decide whether to bomb or nuke its own fleeing people, in the process demoralizing and weakening itself.
At some point, individual commanders will begin to decide whether they are members of NATO first or whether they wish to preserve their own countries, just as for similar reasons America is part of the UN, but many Americans wouldn't particularly think that means it should come at the expense of American interests. The junior members of the Warsaw Pact could be described in much the same terms.
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#4026313 - 10/23/14 10:56 PM
Re: The lesson is ...
[Re: oldgrognard]
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,254
Pielstick
Member
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Member
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Posts: 1,254
The Engine Room
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Every ship has its problems, but this is a bit different. Every defect or failure can be traced back to DMOM: Design, Manufacture, Operation, Maintenance. In eleven years I have sailed on eight different ships. Every single one of them had issues with at least one element of DMOM. In several cases they were major issues that directly impacted operational capability. At times I was left incredulous that a country with the 4th largest defence budget in the world can be operating naval vessels with such issues. I'm sitting in a pretty big glass house and I'm not going to be throwing any stones. Especially as I've been told I'm shortly joining a ship that I know to be an absolute nightmare from an engineer's perspective. Unless something changes I'm going to be bringing this monstrosity out of a major refit: The power of Christ compels you!
Last edited by Pielstick; 10/23/14 11:15 PM.
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Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
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