#4025574 - 10/22/14 12:51 PM
U-571 (real one)
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Posts: 20,834
Stormtrooper
Lifer
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Lifer
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 20,834
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#4025580 - 10/22/14 01:05 PM
Re: U-571 (real one)
[Re: Stormtrooper]
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master
Entil'zha
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Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
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There were a lot of U's.
The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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#4025598 - 10/22/14 01:39 PM
Re: U-571 (real one)
[Re: Stormtrooper]
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,113
KraziKanuK
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,113
Ottawa Canada
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http://www.uboat.net/U-571 Type VIIC Ordered 24 Oct 1939 Laid down 8 Jun 1940 Blohm & Voss, Hamburg (werk 547) Launched 4 Apr 1941 Commissioned 22 May 1941 Kptlt. Helmut Mhlmann (Knights Cross) Commanders 22 May 1941 - 31 May 1943 Kptlt. Helmut Mhlmann (Knights Cross) 31 May 1943 - 28 Jan 1944 Oblt. Gustav Lssow Career 11 patrols 22 May 1941 - 1 Aug 1941 3. Flottille (training) 1 Aug 1941 - 28 Jan 1944 3. Flottille (active service) Successes 5 ships sunk, total tonnage 33,511 GRT 1 ship damaged, total tonnage 11,394 GRT 1 ship a total loss, total tonnage 9,788 GRT 1 auxiliary warship a total loss, total tonnage 3,870 GRT Fate Sunk 28 Jan 1944 west of Ireland, in position 52.41N, 14.27W, by depth charges from an Australian Sunderland aircraft (RAAF-Sqdn 461/D). 52 dead (all hands lost).
There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB. The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed. There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
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#4025610 - 10/22/14 01:52 PM
Re: U-571 (real one)
[Re: Stormtrooper]
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Posts: 15,786
Haggart
I Fought Diablo
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I Fought Diablo
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Posts: 15,786
The Lone Star State
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it's been a while but if i remember correctly, as the war progressed (and so did the ability to locate enemy subs) most U-boat crews never made it back to port. Sobering thought even though they were the enemy.
"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
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#4025614 - 10/22/14 01:56 PM
Re: U-571 (real one)
[Re: Haggart]
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,481
PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
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Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,481
Miami, FL USA
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it's been a while but if i remember correctly, as the war progressed (and so did the ability to locate enemy subs) most U-boat crews never made it back to port. Sobering thought even though they were the enemy. 30,000 out of 40,000 U-boat crew members didn't survive the war.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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#4025629 - 10/22/14 02:27 PM
Re: U-571 (real one)
[Re: RSColonel_131st]
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,118
Chucky
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UK
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You gotta wonder how they know exactly where it sunk when no one was alive to report. The Sunderland will know they sank a boat, but how do they know which one? It's probably collated after the war from both side's records. I'm sure in some instances they make a best guess as to the area but as has been demonstrated many times sometimes the wrecks are nowhere near the reported sinking area. Also think about the many others that have never been found,at least so far.We have more chance of finding missing vessels on the moon than in the depths of the ocean.
EV's are the Devils matchbox.
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#4025683 - 10/22/14 04:35 PM
Re: U-571 (real one)
[Re: Stormtrooper]
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,534
Alicatt
Hotshot
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Hotshot
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Posts: 5,534
Ice Cold in Alex or Eating in ...
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It's like the Admiralty chart for the Sinclair Bay, listing the wreck of the German Submarine U81 to be sunk in about 35m of water in the bay, but the U81 was sunk at Pola Croatia and has quite an interesting history. What is actually marked on the chart is the V81 a WW1 Groes Torpedoboot 1913 but even then the chart just marks where the boat broke free from her tow in bad weather, she actually lies about 6km to the north just off the Castle of Lambaborg or Buchollie at 58,34N 3,03E in less than 10m of water
Last edited by Alicatt; 10/22/14 04:36 PM.
Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil Sons of the hound come here and get flesh Clan Cameron
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#4025703 - 10/22/14 05:19 PM
Re: U-571 (real one)
[Re: Haggart]
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,180
scrim
Member
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Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,180
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it's been a while but if i remember correctly, as the war progressed (and so did the ability to locate enemy subs) most U-boat crews never made it back to port. Sobering thought even though they were the enemy. Indeed, though after reading Ivan's War, it struck me that there were branches that had it even worse. IIRC, the fatality rate of Red Army tank crews was a staggering ~95% when the war finally ended.
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#4025862 - 10/22/14 11:20 PM
Re: U-571 (real one)
[Re: PanzerMeyer]
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 11,752
Vertigo1
Veteran
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Veteran
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Posts: 11,752
Zeta Aquilae System
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it's been a while but if i remember correctly, as the war progressed (and so did the ability to locate enemy subs) most U-boat crews never made it back to port. Sobering thought even though they were the enemy. 30,000 out of 40,000 U-boat crew members didn't survive the war. We should have had Donitz join them...
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx
“One of the great mistakes is to judge policies and programs by their intentions rather than their results.” -Milton Friedman
Quem Deus vult perdere, prius dementat
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#4025976 - 10/23/14 04:59 AM
Re: U-571 (real one)
[Re: Stormtrooper]
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 8,543
Timothy
Hotshot
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Hotshot
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Phoenix - Ft. Carson
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You know Donitz actually had Pacific commanders state that they fought the war the same way as Donitz. He actually was a very honorable man and was not a fan of the Nazi Party and was always walking a tight rope to keep from the Gestapo. In the Nuremberg trials Dnitz was accused of war crimes. Most sensible people agree that the German U-boats fought hard but fair considering the situation. [No one tries to deny the war crimes committed by the Germans before and during the war though]. Thus many say that Dnitz was simply punished for being too efficient at his job and his U-boats having been to much of a threat to allied shipping and the outcome of the war. Dnitz served 11 years and 6 months in prison, the last ten years at Berlin-Spandau. http://www.uboat.net/men/doenitz.htmIt was in this situation that on 30th April 1945 he received a radio message from the private secretary of the Fhrer, Bormann, which appointed him, Dnitz, as Hitler's successor, head of state and supreme commander of all German armed forces. Dnitz was well aware of the fact that if he accepted this political office not only would that leave a shadow on his stainless military career, but that he could not escape the prospective humiliation by committing suicide. He would have to stand and fight on until - with as many people as possible saved from the Soviets - he could finally surrender and put an end to the worst war in the history of mankind. He also knew that he was the only high ranking official German person available that the Allies would accept in talks about an armistice or a surrender as he was by no means involved in the political entanglements of the Third Reich. Although the appointment of him as 'Reichsprsident' was at least questionable from a constitutional point of view - the Weimar Constitution of the Reich was still effective - he had to accept it, as the required legitimization of the head of state by a general election was impossible to carry out. Some people might have been puzzled, why Groadmiral Dnitz was appointed by Hitler and not some other Nazi. Well, the answer might well be that Hitler saw in one last moment of clear thought, that Germany did not need a Nazi criminal but somebody decent who could - with firmness of character and an unstained personality - help the devastated country. Someone had to take over the responsibility and care for the German state and people. This the Groadmiral did in the finest traditions of the German officer corps, holding the needs of the many higher than considerations of personal honor or welfare.
So a provisional government was formed which was to be responsible for all German affairs until a democratic general election could be held. Dnitz carefully avoided the involvement of Nazi scoundrels in his government, so he personally had to deny the still powerful Reichsfhrer SS Himmler a post in the new 'Reichsregierung'. During that talk, Dnitz always had a loaded gun for self defence ready at hand, hidden under piles of paper on his office desk. http://www.uboat.net/men/nuremberg2.htmit is certainly so in the case of the trial against Groadmiral Dnitz. He was accused of conspiracy against peace, crimes against peace and crimes against martial law. He was not accused of crimes against humanity, as were the Nazi villains responsible for the incredible cruelty at the concentration camps. Although the Groadmiral did not care what happened to him as a person, he sensed what was the real cause for him being the defendant: to condemn the German U-boat warfare as an act of piracy and to justify his unlawful removal as head of state. Therefore, he asked the former Flottenrichter (Navy Judge in the rank of a Kapitn zur See) Otto Kranzbhler to be his lawyer. Kranzbhler shared the Groadmiral's concerns and did everything he could so that the German Navy and its U-boat arm would get out of the court unscathed. Only by exceptional tactics could he achieve that the testimony of the Commander-in-Chief of the American Pacific Forces, Admiral of the Fleet Chester Nimitz, was admitted in court. Nimitz stated that from the very first moment of war, American submarines conducted an unrestricted submarine warfare against Japan. With that statement by one of their own military commanders, the Allied judges could not condemn Dnitz for unlawful warfare.
But a twist had to be found, to make it possible to pass a sentence not in favor of the Groadmiral. He was then condemned because he conducted (not planned, prepared or unleashed) an offensive war and his U-boats were well prepared and trained for war. This strikingly ridiculous reasoning has never since been applied. If it had been, every officer in the whole world training and preparing his men for battle (after all that is what the job of an officer is all about) should have been convicted. He was not found guilty of conspiracy, but guilty of crimes against martial law. The crime against martial law mainly consisting of not cancelling Hitler's order concerning the unlawful shooting of captured commando soldiers after Dnitz had become Commander-in-Chief of the Navy. That no commando soldier whatsoever had been caught and shot by Navy personnel according to this order did not bother the judges. The verdict was regarded by many as an outrageous example of injustice and officers all over the world, amongst them some 120 Admirals of the U.S. Navy, considered the sentence as an unjustified attack on one of their brother officers. Dnitz received nearly 400 letters from Admirals, Generals, politicians, historians and journalists from all over the world, expressing their sympathy and regretting his fate. http://www.uboat.net/men/nuremberg3.htm
Keep Calm and Check CanopyThere are no ex-paratroopers, only ones off jump statusLearn Economics at: http://www.mises.orgCarthago delenda est
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Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
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