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#4025523 - 10/22/14 08:03 AM A spooky coincidence  
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HeinKill Offline
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On the ATAG forums dburnette pointed out that what he is seeing devs trying to do with BoS (find a middle ground between hard core sim and arcade flight game) was what Microsoft tried with MS Flight. I had never followed MS Flight and knew nothing about it so I looked up the IGN review.

Look what happens if you search/replace MS Flight and Microsoft, with BoS and 1CGS in the review:

Flying is magical, but playing this game is not.
by Gord Goble

Unless you truly believe in the magic of potential future downloadable content – and are willing to pay the very real price for whatever enhancements may or may not be coming down the pike – BoS is, for the most part, a waste of your time. It matters not if you're a detail-oriented, accuracy-loving sim-head or a gunning-for-action "arcade" gamer. BoS is likely not the droid you're looking for.

In an attempt to reel in a wider general audience for its latest flight-based affair, 1CGS has, in many ways, sacrificed much of what made its prior flight games so compelling – realism and depth. In so doing, it will undoubtedly alienate a wide swath of its potential audience – the hardcore crowd that not only filled its simulation coffers for years but also stuck with 1CGS through a variety of rough patches.

You see, BoS is just about as far removed from a true flight sim as American Idol is from originality. Sure, it gives the illusion of a sim – comprehensive cockpits; pretty, believable renditions of real life planes; and an assortment of switchable options that seem as if they'd make the thing that much more difficult and wonderfully time-consuming. Yet that illusion is…illusionary.

As frustrating as it may be for seasoned sim veterans, it likewise isn't "fun" enough to hold the interest of the casual gaming crowd it's clearly after. Somewhere along the development trail, BoS morphed from the sim-based follow-up one would naturally expect into the highly accessible product the developer ultimately decided it should be. And yes, it is accessible.

When you first climb into the cockpit...numerous on-screen prompts hold the hand of the newbie like never before.

Considering you can't conduct a career or live out a story...can't fill the skies with AI aircraft ...there arguably isn't much to hold long-term interest other than to experience the joy of landing, taking off, sitting in the cockpit, and enjoying the scenery.

THE VERDICT

BoS is not a terrible game. The environment, for example, may be eerie in its sense of ... emptiness ... but the artistry is lush and convincing, the frame rate seems solid even if you're not running the latest and greatest equipment, and time of day and weather variables really add to the show. There is an initial wow factor, no doubt.

But look closer, spend some time with it, and all is not what it seems. The one big question here – and yes, it's really big – is where 1CGS plans to take BoS in the future. Only time will tell, but in the meantime, BoS is best sampled in its freebie guise.





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#4025550 - 10/22/14 11:33 AM Re: A spooky coincidence [Re: HeinKill]  
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That's a good read... it's all down to the individual of course on how they perceive the game.
At the moment I'd only give it a 5 out of 10.
Has lots of potential if the devs actually listen to the fans.

#4025565 - 10/22/14 12:24 PM Re: A spooky coincidence [Re: HeinKill]  
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#4025594 - 10/22/14 01:22 PM Re: A spooky coincidence [Re: HeinKill]  
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Entil'zha
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The flaw in that is that as you never tried MS Flight you have no idea what it was actually like. I played a couple of hours of it. It was pointless. You had Hawaii to fly in, a handful of planes that weren't modeled very accurately, and almost nothing to do. People fly MSFS because of the detail that lets them replicate civilian flying. Flight didn't replicate anything. It was Ace Combat without any combat! It was an arcade can't-shoot-em-up.
BoS has more planes (even if you didn't pay for the extra 2), more accurate FMs, more maps (it's not just one), and a purpose--fighting the battle of Stalingrad.

They really don't compare. Unless you believe that an SP campaign whose format you don't like and the existence of unlocks somehow removes the detail in the terrain, the flight modeling and other plane details, weapons, and so on. You may say that the existence of aspects you don't like invalidates the worth to you of the entire package as a whole, but you cannot deny the existence of these details as justification.

The campaign did not make the flight modeling suddenly suck. Flight had no good aspects aside from the graphics, but that didn't even apply to the simplified cockpits.




The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4025618 - 10/22/14 02:02 PM Re: A spooky coincidence [Re: HeinKill]  
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Gord Goble.

Those nasty, nasty parents. biggrin


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#4025623 - 10/22/14 02:13 PM Re: A spooky coincidence [Re: Jedi Master]  
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KodiakJac Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
They really don't compare. Unless you believe that an SP campaign whose format you don't like and the existence of unlocks somehow removes the detail in the terrain, the flight modeling and other plane details, weapons, and so on. You may say that the existence of aspects you don't like invalidates the worth to you of the entire package as a whole, but you cannot deny the existence of these details as justification.


Who said their dislike of the SP Campaign and unlocks removes the detail in the terrain, flight modeling and plane models? I think most folks agree all those pieces are present in BoS, but not with an immersive campaign to use them in, and that's where the rubber meets the road for many customers.

I think the point of the OP was that it is often hard to satisfy a disparate audience with a single product. As you move towards one customer's interest, you often move away from another's, and you can end up pleasing no one.


Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up!
Can you say "JABO!" thumbsup
#4025641 - 10/22/14 03:06 PM Re: A spooky coincidence [Re: KodiakJac]  
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nibbio Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bucksnort


I think the point of the OP was that it is often hard to satisfy a disparate audience with a single product. As you move towards one customer's interest, you often move away from another's, and you can end up pleasing no one.


...or both. We shall see.

After trying BOS first hand for more than 30 hours, no amount of silly unlocks or unimaginative campaign missions takes away the fact that this is the best simulated air combat experience I've ever had.

#4025656 - 10/22/14 03:43 PM Re: A spooky coincidence [Re: HeinKill]  
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The IGN review is a good synopsis of the problem with the game as it is.

MS Flight simulator sold around 270K copies in 2007 (as per SimHQ posting on Dovetail). This is for the genre leader in it's 10th ....and last incarnation....MS axed it and let go the whole team associated with it.

Not to repeat a lot of old ground here.

But the genre has been dying for half a decade now....so I'm not against developers seeking some way out of this problem of appealing across market segments in order to appeal to a wider audience.

The problem I see with what they have done so far with BoS...is lock down content for full paying customers and forcing them into a linear grind experience, while not giving enough insight or opportunity (at this point) for 3rd party folks to add content and/or experience like IL2 DCG, so the developer does not shoulder additional development cost (risk).

Thus the IGN review captures the current approach and compromise as alienating the old crowd while not be compelling enough to bring in the War Thunder and like crowds of the world


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#4026134 - 10/23/14 03:56 PM Re: A spooky coincidence [Re: SkullBiscuit]  
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Originally Posted By: SkullBiscuit

Thus the IGN review captures the current approach and compromise as alienating the old crowd while not be compelling enough to bring in the War Thunder and like crowds of the world




I'm not debating that, that is certainly the scenario playing out. My point was more that the old crowd is alienated all too easily.



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4026136 - 10/23/14 03:59 PM Re: A spooky coincidence [Re: KodiakJac]  
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Entil'zha
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Originally Posted By: Bucksnort
Who said their dislike of the SP Campaign and unlocks removes the detail in the terrain, flight modeling and plane models? I think most folks agree all those pieces are present in BoS, but not with an immersive campaign to use them in, and that's where the rubber meets the road for many customers.

I think the point of the OP was that it is often hard to satisfy a disparate audience with a single product. As you move towards one customer's interest, you often move away from another's, and you can end up pleasing no one.



Well considering the diatribes and 0/10 scores some have posted online, they totally fail to give the impression that they think it's a really good sim framework with some bad design decisions marring the campaign experience. They give the impression that if flight sims were meals then BoS would give you e coli or maybe ebola.





The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4026195 - 10/23/14 06:01 PM Re: A spooky coincidence [Re: Jedi Master]  
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SkullBiscuit Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
Originally Posted By: SkullBiscuit

Thus the IGN review captures the current approach and compromise as alienating the old crowd while not be compelling enough to bring in the War Thunder and like crowds of the world




I'm not debating that, that is certainly the scenario playing out. My point was more that the old crowd is alienated all too easily.



The Jedi Master


Had they no affiliation with "IL2"...either the brand or the company of 1C, but really the brand of IL2....

I don't think you would see a fraction of "the horror...the horror" to borrow from Apocalypse Now

If it was 777 and ROF now on the eastern front 1942/43 an entirely different set of expectations would have come forward

Nope...the vitriol among the sim crowd is the perception that they've been mislead and that this "successor to IL2"...and they are marketing it as such...with clear intent to capitalize on the past glory of the IL2 series

is not a successor (like COD was...and arguably is in its second coming with TF mods)

But BoS is an imposter...a pretender to the Il2 legacy

Thus the IL2 Grognards have taken to the streets...to sound of "Street Fighting Man" by the Rolling Stones


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#4026221 - 10/23/14 07:10 PM Re: A spooky coincidence [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Pizzicato Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master

Well considering the diatribes and 0/10 scores some have posted online, they totally fail to give the impression that they think it's a really good sim framework with some bad design decisions marring the campaign experience. They give the impression that if flight sims were meals then BoS would give you e coli or maybe ebola.


I don't think your analogy is too far off the mark, Jedi.

Up until a few weeks back, BoS was shaping up to be a pretty exciting and tasty meal. Unfortunately, the campaign structure and associated unlocks are the equivalent of finding a dirty great turd in the middle of your dinner. It doesn't matter how good the rest of the meal is - you're not going to eat it.

As a direct result of this, an otherwise excellent meal has been ruined for many people by the presence of one particularly odious ingredient that renders the rest of it pretty much inedible.


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Pizzicato
#4026226 - 10/23/14 07:24 PM Re: A spooky coincidence [Re: Pizzicato]  
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Blade_Meister Offline
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Originally Posted By: Pizzicato
Originally Posted By: Jedi Master

Well considering the diatribes and 0/10 scores some have posted online, they totally fail to give the impression that they think it's a really good sim framework with some bad design decisions marring the campaign experience. They give the impression that if flight sims were meals then BoS would give you e coli or maybe ebola.


I don't think your analogy is too far off the mark, Jedi.

Up until a few weeks back, BoS was shaping up to be a pretty exciting and tasty meal. Unfortunately, the campaign structure and associated unlocks are the equivalent of finding a dirty great turd in the middle of your dinner. It doesn't matter how good the rest of the meal is - you're not going to eat it.

As a direct result of this, an otherwise excellent meal has been ruined for many people by the presence of one particularly odious ingredient that renders the rest of it pretty much inedible.


Well said Sir! Well said! And as a paying customer, it is your right to share that simple observation, just as it is the content customers right to share their experience. BOS is what it is and anyone looking to purchase it need only look at the customer feedback on the various Sim Forums and they can discern for themselves whether it is the successor to the IL2 Franchise.

S!Blade<><

#4026250 - 10/23/14 07:59 PM Re: A spooky coincidence [Re: Blade_Meister]  
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Pizzicato Offline
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Originally Posted By: Blade_Meister
And as a paying customer, it is your right to share that simple observation, just as it is the content customers right to share their experience. BOS is what it is and anyone looking to purchase it need only look at the customer feedback on the various Sim Forums and they can discern for themselves whether it is the successor to the IL2 Franchise.


Yep. I have no issues with that at all.


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Pizzicato

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