#4005788 - 09/06/14 12:33 AM
Nevada ETA speculation?
|
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,666
Chris2525
Member
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,666
Canada
|
Since discussion about Nevada seems to be verboten in the other threads, I though I'd open one up here. I'm here to try and speculate about what's going on with Nevada, and to make guesses as to when we might see it, not to chastise ED. But feel free to speak your mind. All comments welcome. So as I was saying in the September newsletter discussion, when it comes to Nevada, I've gleaned a not very optimistic prognosis from Wag's last three updates on the subject. Take a look: "...all major art and geometry components of the NTTR map are now complete. We are now waiting for the integration of EDGE and the new map data system into DCS to allow the importing of new maps such as the NTTR." "The NTTR map is essentially done. We are now waiting for EDGE to be incorporated into DCS and set up the a new file structure that will be required to support multiple maps". "Work continues on the NTTR map. The primary objective is to adapt the various map assets to work within DCS World. Once this effort is complete and DCS World 2.0 is available, we plan to release this map soon afterwards." Read between the lines and you'll see that those are all basically identical statements, just reworded. It looks like they've been stuck on integrating edge into DCS for the last six months, to the point where their updates contain no concrete signs of progress (which isn't to say there's been no progress, just that the updates contain no such indications). I find the brevity of these Nevada/EDGE updates, as well as their consistency to be very discouraging. I think that if we were anywhere near seeing Nevada, we'd be getting a little more than identical, vague, two line updates every three months. But I'll be happy to be proven wrong. What do we actually know about EDGE right now? We've all seen the videos of oddball EDGE maps being used on professional simulators (Bagram, Corsica(?) etc). Do we know for a fact that EDGE is running on desktop PCs yet? Or are all the recent EDGE Black Sea screenshots coming from a supercomputer/proefession simulator setup like those Bagram and Corsica videos?
Last edited by Chris2525; 09/06/14 12:35 AM.
Windows 7 Home Premium x64 / Intel Core i7-3770K @ 3.50GHz (8 CPUs), ~3.9GHz / 8192MB DDR3 / NVIDIA GeForce GTX780 / TM Warthog / Saitek Pro Fight Rudder Pedals / TrackIR5
|
|
#4005805 - 09/06/14 01:16 AM
Re: Nevada ETA speculation?
[Re: Chris2525]
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,705
Pizzicato
Asleep at the Wheel
|
Asleep at the Wheel
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,705
Vancouver, BC
|
Do we know for a fact that EDGE is running on desktop PCs yet? Or are all the recent EDGE Black Sea screenshots coming from a supercomputer/proefession simulator setup like those Bagram and Corsica videos? The fact that the VEAO team and Glowing Amraam have released a number of screens and videos featuring EDGE footage strongly suggests that it's running on desktop PCs. Equally, the fact that EDGE is slated for release this year all but guarantees that it's running on desktop PCs unless ED are engaged in a monstrously huge deception. I've also seen numerous posts from testers on the ED forums that have intimated that they've been playing alpha builds of EDGE for several months. In terms of an ETA for Nevada, who knows. If we're getting DCS 2.0 and EDGE by the turn of the year, I'd expect to see Nevada either very late this year or early next, but I have nothing solid to base that on.
--------- Pizzicato
|
|
#4005822 - 09/06/14 02:01 AM
Re: Nevada ETA speculation?
[Re: Derby]
|
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,666
Chris2525
Member
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,666
Canada
|
While those statement's sound very similar they are not exactly the same. I would say the first statement is about the main features like terrain and airbases being more or less complete, finishing the details, waiting for EDGE, the second statement is more of the same: Map is now more polished and waiting for EDGE to be far enough in development to implement the map into the game. The fact that the VEAO team and Glowing Amraam have released a number of screens and videos featuring EDGE footage strongly suggests that it's running on desktop PCs.
Equally, the fact that EDGE is slated for release this year all but guarantees that it's running on desktop PCs unless ED are engaged in a monstrously huge deception.
I've also seen numerous posts from testers on the ED forums that have intimated that they've been playing alpha builds of EDGE for several months.
In terms of an ETA for Nevada, who knows. If we're getting DCS 2.0 and EDGE by the turn of the year, I'd expect to see Nevada either very late this year or early next, but I have nothing solid to base that on. I see two major categories of progress - The actual modeling of the Nevada map, and the incorporation of the Nevada map (via EDGE) into DCS. Based on Pizzicato's comments, it would certainly seem that EDGE is working in DCSW on desktop machines, meaning the hangup is in getting Nevada work in EDGE/DCSW. So I'll amend my original stance and say that while the first two posts from Wags are essentially identical, the "EDGE incorporated into DCS" part seems to be done, yet Nevada still needs to be incorporated into EDGE/DCSW. Not quite as bleak an outlook as I orginally had, but still a lot of room for uncertainty. And again, the vagueness, brevity and and rarity of these updates is very discouraging, givne how huge the new terrain is going to be for DCSW. I think the new terrain will be the biggest leap forward for DCSW yet, and I'm not really feeling the hype (or much optimism) from ED on that front. Again, I'll be happy to be proved wrong. My issue about Nevada is how ED handled it. When it was released with the beta, they then pulled it because it was buggy if I remember right. I think the better option would have been to patch it as best they could and we would have been able to fly it for a couple years. Hell, even if they didn't patch it, and just left it as it was with the clear disclaimer that this was an incomplete module and that a brand new replacement was in the works. That would still have been better than providing Nevada as advertized, then taking it away. The tired terrain is a common complaint about DCSW (and is the reason I don't really play DCSW very often anymore). Having an incomplete map as an alternative could only have dulled that sentiment by giving players a change of scenery (albeit an incomplete one). And no, sorry, I don't accept the rationale that players could work around this by pulling Nevada from their Beta install and copy/pasting it into DCSW. ED clearly meant to take the old Nevada map away, hence it disappeared when you updated. If they intended for you to have it, it would be there without you haveing to slip it in the back door.
Last edited by Chris2525; 09/06/14 02:04 AM.
Windows 7 Home Premium x64 / Intel Core i7-3770K @ 3.50GHz (8 CPUs), ~3.9GHz / 8192MB DDR3 / NVIDIA GeForce GTX780 / TM Warthog / Saitek Pro Fight Rudder Pedals / TrackIR5
|
|
#4005827 - 09/06/14 02:14 AM
Re: Nevada ETA speculation?
[Re: Chris2525]
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 488
Snoopy_476th
Member
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 488
Warner Robins Ga, USA
|
I left the ED Testers team back in late spring and we were testing the early stages of EDGE back then. NDA so I can't speak to any further details.
The problem with just including the beta map is DCS World has evolved a lot since then. You can't even communicate between aircraft and tankers or AWACS now if flying the beta Nevada in DCS World.
Last edited by Snoopy_476th; 09/06/14 02:16 AM.
|
|
#4005843 - 09/06/14 03:35 AM
Re: Nevada ETA speculation?
[Re: Chris2525]
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,705
Pizzicato
Asleep at the Wheel
|
Asleep at the Wheel
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,705
Vancouver, BC
|
And again, the vagueness, brevity and and rarity of these updates is very discouraging, given how huge the new terrain is going to be for DCSW.
I don't read too much into this at all. (Extremely) limited communication is pretty much par for the course with ED. It could be a psychological byproduct of their secretive military contracts. It could be a cultural byproduct of the fact that they're Russian. It could be that they're sick of dealing with the outpourings of negativity from some quarters that accompanies any update or announcement. It could be that they're just really, really terrible at marketing and PR. Who knows. What I do know is that this kind of big, bold "roadmap" announcement is very unusual. That tells me that they're feeling confident about their promises. That seems doubly true given the short (end of the year) timelines for most of the features and modules in the newsletter. Hell, even if they didn't patch it, and just left it as it was with the clear disclaimer that this was an incomplete module and that a brand new replacement was in the works. That would still have been better than providing Nevada as advertized, then taking it away. I don't agree with this for two reasons: 1. ED are going to have professional pride. I don't see them leaving a massive and obviously half-finished chunk of badness in the game for months or even years. It's just not in their best interests and it harms the perception of the product. Pulling the map brings its own perception issues, of course, but it's a question of the lesser of two evils. 2. Even if they caveated the presence of a half-finished map, they'd still have to deal with an endless stream of new players turning up on the forums to complain about the crapness of the Nevada map. What I suspect happened was that ED realised too late how much effort it was going to take to get a half-finished third-party mod to a shippable standard. At some point during that process, they decided that they needed to build a better graphics engine. There was no point spending large amounts of time and money on a map that would become redundant once the graphics engine shipped, so they shelved it. The problem, of course, relates to how long it's taken to build an entire new engine. Maybe that surprised them. Maybe they had to move resources into their military contracts. Again - who knows. Regardless, my assumptions seem reasonable to me. My overall take, though, is that things are about to happen. The unusual levels of communication in the newsletter and the specificity about dates suggests that the big DCS 2.0 shift is about to happen and that, in turn, is going to open the gates a wide range of new content for the sim. I'm positive, upbeat and excited. Let's see what happens next.
--------- Pizzicato
|
|
#4005855 - 09/06/14 04:59 AM
Re: Nevada ETA speculation?
[Re: Chris2525]
|
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,666
Chris2525
Member
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,666
Canada
|
Ok, I'll buy that. I guess I hadn't considered the possible PR cost of having a half-baked Nevada residing in everyone's DCS folder for years.
But I'm not here to harp on that. I'm looking for educated guesses as to when. And I guess the first page of this thread has left me somewhat more optimistic than when I created this thread.
[edit - and all it took was some mature, rational discussion]
Last edited by Chris2525; 09/06/14 05:00 AM.
Windows 7 Home Premium x64 / Intel Core i7-3770K @ 3.50GHz (8 CPUs), ~3.9GHz / 8192MB DDR3 / NVIDIA GeForce GTX780 / TM Warthog / Saitek Pro Fight Rudder Pedals / TrackIR5
|
|
#4005863 - 09/06/14 06:33 AM
Re: Nevada ETA speculation?
[Re: Chris2525]
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,353
HitchHikingFlatlander
Senior Member
|
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,353
California
|
Well personally I think we'll see it in say about....... wait for it........ Seriously though I don't mind the wait I'm glad they're taking their time to do it right and I love that we have a developer that's investing heavily into modern simulation products even if they take forever with some stuff.
I've got a bad feeling about this.....
|
|
#4006037 - 09/06/14 07:15 PM
Re: Nevada ETA speculation?
[Re: Paradaz]
|
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,666
Chris2525
Member
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,666
Canada
|
My honest answer is that I'm really not sure and don't want to make a guess of it arriving some time this year and then be disappointed. For me, and as painful as it can be - it arrives when it arrives!
For a company that has a well used motto of 'Everything is subject to change' I've got to the point where it's hard to believe the statements they make these days and I think that has also come around from the changes in direction and what appears to be a real lack of understanding in their initial target of fully integrated modules on top of the engine and what appears to be a lack of understanding in the size of many of the work packages hence the delays.
As for the 3 statements which Chris referred to in the first post, I would also agree that there doesn't appear to be much progress at all. I just hope that it isn't an 'update' for update sake. Many people may this as nothing but negativity, but it only stems from the disappointment in waiting so long whilst everything remains in a beta or unreleasable stage when DCS and the platform modules are head and shoulders above any competing product. I've elevated my outlook from pessimistic to cautiously optimistic. Derby may be right in his interpretation that the latest tidbit about Nevada could be a sign of progress over the previous two updates. But then again, it could still be read as a re-wording of the last two updates. So I'm not getting my hopes up too much. The reason I care so much is because the tired old black sea map has pretty much made the game unplayable for me. Even with the new modules coming out, I still can't get past the old terrain. The novelty of new aircraft is no longer enough to outweigh the staleness of the overall game experience. The EDGE version of the Black Sea map will be nice, but I imagine the novelty of the superficial graphics improvements will quickly fade leaving us again with the same old terrain. So I'm looking forward to a new terrain coming out because that's what will get me back into DCS. And it's not just about the change of scenery for me. I'm a CA fan, and CA is basically useless in a low-res terrain mesh where the poly faces are all like a kilometer wide, leaving you no terrain to use for maneuvering. Right now, playing CA is like fighting on a series of gigantic parking lots. No hull downs, no concealed approaches. Nevada will be a huge game changer for CA.
Last edited by Chris2525; 09/06/14 07:15 PM.
Windows 7 Home Premium x64 / Intel Core i7-3770K @ 3.50GHz (8 CPUs), ~3.9GHz / 8192MB DDR3 / NVIDIA GeForce GTX780 / TM Warthog / Saitek Pro Fight Rudder Pedals / TrackIR5
|
|
#4006054 - 09/06/14 07:43 PM
Re: Nevada ETA speculation?
[Re: Chris2525]
|
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,583
Lucky
Old Guy
|
Old Guy
Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,583
Upstate N.Y.
|
I've done my share of complaining and jokes about the release of NTTR. I'm at a point now where I don't care if it ever comes out. Haven't touched DCSW in months. Not interested in any of the recently released modules, or any of the 3rd party ones in development. Last one I bought was the Mi-8. As far as the DCS F/A-18 goes, that's too far down the road for me to get excited about. When NTTR and EDGE come out I will check them out,
Core i9 10900k @ 5.0GHz Corsair H115i CPU cooler Asus ROG Maximus XII Formula Asus ROG Strix RTX 2080 OC 8GB DDR6 32GB Team T-Force Night Hawk DDR4 3200, Corsair HX850i 850W PSU TIR5 With Trackclip Pro Win 10 x64
|
|
#4006064 - 09/06/14 08:18 PM
Re: Nevada ETA speculation?
[Re: Chris2525]
|
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,666
Chris2525
Member
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,666
Canada
|
That's pretty much where I'm at too, except I bought the F-86, flew it a couple of times over two days, then stopped playing DCSW again. That's why I'm impatiently awaiting NTTR.
Windows 7 Home Premium x64 / Intel Core i7-3770K @ 3.50GHz (8 CPUs), ~3.9GHz / 8192MB DDR3 / NVIDIA GeForce GTX780 / TM Warthog / Saitek Pro Fight Rudder Pedals / TrackIR5
|
|
#4006104 - 09/06/14 09:34 PM
Re: Nevada ETA speculation?
[Re: Chris2525]
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 92
Capt_Hook
Junior Member
|
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 92
|
Having never seen these before, I'm amazed they spent that much effort re-creating the Vegas strip. Are they going to keep up with new hotels as they're added? Are they destructable? Dropping a GBU onto the Ferrari dealership at the Wynn would be worth the price of the map right there. Sorry Steve... training accident. Of course, now we know why the map is delayed... can't release it without the High Roller. Too big a landmark.
Last edited by Capt_Hook; 09/06/14 09:36 PM.
Hardware: Asus Sabertooth Z87 - Intel 4670K @ 4.4 - 16GB RAM - EVGA Titan - Old Asus 26" 19x12 LCD - bunch of drives.
Sim Toys: Warthog - 8cm Simpit Hog extension - TIR5 - CH Quadrant - Slaw Device rudder pedals - Obutto R3v
|
|
#4006106 - 09/06/14 09:42 PM
Re: Nevada ETA speculation?
[Re: Chris2525]
|
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,666
Chris2525
Member
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,666
Canada
|
Not sure how destructible the new Nevada map will be. But I know for sure that the buildings on the strip in the old Nevada map were not...
Windows 7 Home Premium x64 / Intel Core i7-3770K @ 3.50GHz (8 CPUs), ~3.9GHz / 8192MB DDR3 / NVIDIA GeForce GTX780 / TM Warthog / Saitek Pro Fight Rudder Pedals / TrackIR5
|
|
#4006136 - 09/06/14 11:31 PM
Re: Nevada ETA speculation?
[Re: Lucky]
|
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,180
scrim
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,180
|
I've done my share of complaining and jokes about the release of NTTR. I'm at a point now where I don't care if it ever comes out. I'm at the same stage with the MiG-21 now to be honest. Over half a year ago it was "definitely going to be released this time". Now we're sitting here again, with claims that "there's definitely a release date being announced in the first days of September", but nothing yet and questions are rather blatantly ignored. You just can't replicate that near release hype an infinite number of times, and I fell they lost me at this one. And adding to that, preview copies have been out right, left and center for what, a month now? Most of them I understand, but why a few, like a YT channel with a measly 200 subscribers ever qualified for one is beyond me. Apart from the distrust caused by a number of "definitely close to release" claims turning into dust, seeing so incredibly much on YouTube about it makes me feel there won't be much fun for me learning it. DCS is solely a study sim, beyond learning how to fly and operate aircraft there's maybe 15% enjoyment at most. Now, how fun will I have when there are YT series's that seem to cover every, single, feature before it's even released? And when this many release dates are blown, just that is enough. I bought the Mi-8, expecting zero enjoyment or even use of it to support BST. It turned out to be way more fun than anticipated though. But here's a module I was actually looking very much forward to, and I'm slipping on the proverbial fence towards not buying it. Not for enjoyment, and definitely not even for support when it comes with that many let downs. Seriously, it's just messed up that it's come to that. /rant mode off
Last edited by scrim; 09/06/14 11:37 PM.
|
|
#4006141 - 09/06/14 11:41 PM
Re: Nevada ETA speculation?
[Re: Chris2525]
|
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 113
AZAviator
Member
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 113
Arizona
|
That's pretty much where I'm at too, except I bought the F-86, flew it a couple of times over two days, then stopped playing DCSW again. That's why I'm impatiently awaiting NTTR. Same here. Hopefully, NTTR map is out soon.
I-7 4770K @ 4.5 Ghz, EVGA 980ti 6Gb SC,Corsair H110 water cooler, Asus Maximus VI Hero, EVGA Supernova 1000 watt power supply, Team Extreme LV 16 Gb ram @2100 MHz, Four Samsung Evo solid state drives, Windows 10.
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the day and night to visit violence on those who would do us harm”.
|
|
#4006230 - 09/07/14 09:29 AM
Re: Nevada ETA speculation?
[Re: Remon]
|
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,475
strykerpsg
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,475
Land of the Morning Calm
|
I like how you managed to troll into closing and deleting every positive thread. Yet I'll be called a troll when I respond to these posts. While I appreciate the passion of expressing your opinions and being heard, can we please keep the comments reserved for thread specific topics? I'm tired of seeing so many threads locked in such a short time because people forget how to discuss and interact and resort to childish stacks and slander because their ego's can't handle a difference of opinions. Stay focused and take personal attacks in private messaging...please
Laptop: Alienware M17 R3 i7-6820MQ 32 GB DDR3 1600Mhz memory, Win10 Pro 64 bit, DX11, 24GB GTX 980M video Alienware Graphics Amplifier w GTX 1080 Strix Edition 8GB A-10 Warthog HOTAS Joystick w/ Pedals
|
|
#4006240 - 09/07/14 10:11 AM
Re: Nevada ETA speculation?
[Re: scrim]
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,943
Nate
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,943
Dublin, Ireland
|
and I'm slipping on the proverbial fence towards not buying it.............. I'm willing to bet when it's eventually out you'll be blasting around the skies at Mach 2 in it Nate
|
|
|
|