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#4003649 - 09/01/14 04:49 PM Banner tow plane crashes and pilot killed  
Joined: Nov 2001
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oldgrognard Offline
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Lifer

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,027
USA
I flew right by the site today on my way back from Venice Florida. Nothing to see now.

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20140901/WIRE/140909998/-1/author

Everyone I've talked to who has towed banners said it is the worst flying they've ever done. Always on the edge.


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#4003659 - 09/01/14 05:13 PM Re: Banner tow plane crashes and pilot killed [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Wireman Offline
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The First State, USA
I did it. Closest I ever came to dying while flying. Many times. Never again for me.

#4003665 - 09/01/14 05:20 PM Re: Banner tow plane crashes and pilot killed [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Lobber Offline
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Upstate NY
I thought it was odd, at Fenway earlier this year there was a plane pulling a banner and it looked like the plane wasn't moving.


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#4003672 - 09/01/14 05:32 PM Re: Banner tow plane crashes and pilot killed [Re: oldgrognard]  
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bonchie Offline
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Flew into Ocean City a few weeks ago and there were two of them over the beach.

I was nervous just being around them with their banners hanging hundreds of feet out behind them and hard to see.

#4003704 - 09/01/14 06:48 PM Re: Banner tow plane crashes and pilot killed [Re: oldgrognard]  
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JimK Offline
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The amount of drag they create is unreal, like towing a parachute. Your stall speed is about
as fast as you can keep them in the air. No thanks.


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#4003716 - 09/01/14 07:11 PM Re: Banner tow plane crashes and pilot killed [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Freiherr_Wulff Offline
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I always thought they had a quick release system ? Sounds like stupidity if they do not. RIP Pilot


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#4003799 - 09/01/14 11:36 PM Re: Banner tow plane crashes and pilot killed [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Linebacker Offline
LB
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LB
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YYZ
Wow. Déjà vu all over again ... but this pilot made it out alive back in May 2014 and nobody in the house he hit was injured ...

Small plane crashes into house in Northglenn; pilot walks away without injury
Lucky pilot and lucky nobody was home at the time!

Shouldn't banner tow planes be illegal now that we have stuff like internet marketing?

#4003805 - 09/02/14 12:04 AM Re: Banner tow plane crashes and pilot killed [Re: Linebacker]  
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piper Offline
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Originally Posted By: Linebacker


Shouldn't banner tow planes be illegal now that we have stuff like internet marketing?



Not until google (glass) acquires Rayban...


To the pilot trying to make an honest living, RIP.

#4006494 - 09/07/14 10:39 PM Re: Banner tow plane crashes and pilot killed [Re: oldgrognard]  
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oldgrognard Offline
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Lifer

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USA


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4006501 - 09/07/14 10:57 PM Re: Banner tow plane crashes and pilot killed [Re: oldgrognard]  
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adlabs6 Offline
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Glad he's OK.

I seem to recall one had trouble around Dallas a short time back. Dropped the banner in a residential area, IIRC.


WARNING: This post contains opinions produced in a facility which also occasionally processes fact products.
#4006576 - 09/08/14 04:24 AM Re: Banner tow plane crashes and pilot killed [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Rick.50cal Offline
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Wait...if its that performance destroying....



... why hasn't the FAA banned such dangerous flying?!?

Seriously... if it is THAT much on the edge, when conditions are ideal... there would be zero margin for abnormal conditions. Plus it employs precious few working hours. And virtually worthless as a marketing strategy.

Better off doing aerial advertising using lighter than air ships, either manned or unmanned. Or use lasers projected onto clouds or something. But getting a guy to fly for hours right at stall speed with no power margin seems totally stupid to me, and knowing the lengths they go to fir making airliners safe, disapointed they allow such advertising over cities and population centers...planes DO crash when operated at the edge of their performance envelope.


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#4006684 - 09/08/14 01:45 PM Re: Banner tow plane crashes and pilot killed [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Dart Offline
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Lifer

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Alabaster, AL USA
The only banner towing ops I've seen were being conducted over water, which is both safe and dangerous depending on the perspective.

Banner towing.

[shiver]


Not. On. A. Bet.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

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#4006708 - 09/08/14 02:20 PM Re: Banner tow plane crashes and pilot killed [Re: Rick.50cal]  
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DrZebra Offline
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steppe
Originally Posted By: Rick.50cal

Wait...if its that performance destroying....



... why hasn't the FAA banned such dangerous flying?!?

Seriously... if it is THAT much on the edge, when conditions are ideal... there would be zero margin for abnormal conditions.



I think that might have something to do with improper licensing or operational practices... At least here, having a plane licensed for towing any kind of stuff of comes with limits and how far the max performance and limits and actually loads are appart is entirely a matter of what you let people do (if they don´t allready have that sense of self-preservation that makes you care for safety margins)

Towing a banner (or a glider which is a daily practice worldwide) means that you have to have contingency planning for all the things that can go wrong, from takeoff to landing.
The main risk with a banner is that you fly with additional drag and lower speeds in lower alts giving you little room for engine failure/power loss.. Route planning therefore SHOULD include considerations about that (know beforehand where you eventual can put down or get rid of the banner with less risk, know where people concentrations are that you need to avoid to fly over) as well as that extra attention to engines..


Originally Posted By: Freiherr_Wulff
I always thought they had a quick release system ? Sounds like stupidity if they do not. RIP Pilot


Originally Posted By: adlabs6

I seem to recall one had trouble around Dallas a short time back. Dropped the banner in a residential area, IIRC.


You cannot and should not simply release the banner, as it has heavy weights to keep it upright in the air that could easily harm people. Thats why flying alongside a beach is good, people look in one direction (towards the sea) and the chance of having space to disconnect the banner without endangering someone is fairly good... However, personally I think those planes should pack emergency floation devices as well.. as the risk of knocking crew out even on a minor water landing is considerable.

#4006819 - 09/08/14 06:26 PM Re: Banner tow plane crashes and pilot killed [Re: oldgrognard]  
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SkateZilla Offline
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I've had to call police over Banner towing planes at least twice a week towards the back half of the summer.

Simply Put, the planes were flying low and slow enough, I could have thrown a Football up to the Pilot Easily.

They were flying over residential, either by plan, or they were on their way back to the airfield.

One Plane did crash last summer, flying low and slow on a windy day, the banner simply had enough drag and pulled him down,

he was able to plop the plane down in a small parking lot, and get out of the wreckage on his own.

This year alone, one plane came within 4 or 5 feet of hitting the top of my house (2.5 stories high).

Last edited by SkateZilla; 09/08/14 06:27 PM.

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