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#4003329 - 08/31/14 06:39 PM Mixture/throttle not quite correct  
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HumanDrone Offline
Just shoot me...
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Hello all!

R/L has been very, very busy for me, and I've scarcely had time to look at WOFF. But I finally got Sgt. Pantswetter in the air for his first cross-country training flight, led by Capt Triggers, in April 1915. I think that's a B.E. 2 correct?

Anyway, I've managed to bind my mixture axis to a thumb slider on my Saitek X52 Pro. And it works - kinda, I think. But I'm not sure that ths isn't a root issue in CFS3 itself. Let me backstep.

In CFS3 ETO, and I think just bald CFS3, I always just jump in to quick combat. My throttle position is 100%, but the plane is not at 100%; I have to move throttle, and then then it seems CFS3 moves from it's default to actually reading my controller.

So here in WOFF, I start my training mission with and engine start (E) engine with the throttle at idle. I follow the prompt and advance to full throttle and all is well. But this time I tried fiddling with the mixture, just to see how it works - my engine rpms dropped and I only realized later that, to bring them back up I had to move the throttle. Meanwhile I went into the trees and had to start a new flight.

In my new flight, as usual, the mixture slider was somewhere along the scale when I first moved it. But even if it's better to start at one end or the other, it seemed that every time I moved it, even a little, my rpms dropped and I had to jiggle the throttle, and all was well. If I "lean" the mixture, the engine cuts out, but other than that I can't get it to work as I'd expect.

So, assuming mixture actually works on this craft the way's I'd normally expect it to, have I fumbled something? I'm trying to be as realistic as possible.

As well, due to my fiddling with the mixture, Captain Triggers flew on without me. It was getting late, so I returned to base & did Ctrl-Q. Can I delete the record of that flight - it looks like I got credit for doing the full flight when in reality I didn't even get to the estuary, much less the other field.

Thanks for any help you can give me. WOFF is my sim of choice; I just wish I could get at it more!

Best,

Tom

(I just thought of this, but I'll go ahead and post. I'll take a free flight in CFS3 and see if it behaves the way one would think, & report back when I can.)


Box: Win7 Pro 64 bit / I72600K @4.1 GHz / EVGA GTX1080Ti/ 16GB RAM / Corsair 240 GB SSD / WD 600 GB Velociraptor / 1050W Power
FS Stuff: Saitek X52 Pro Stick/Throttle & Combat Rudder Pedals, TrackIR 5
Sims: FSX Gold, REX 2.0 OD, UTX-NA, FSGenesis 10m mesh/ CFS3 ETO 1.40/Wings Over Flanders Fields BH&H2 (more gorgeous than ever!)
Proud BOC inductee 4/30/12!
#4003365 - 08/31/14 08:06 PM Re: Mixture/throttle not quite correct [Re: HumanDrone]  
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MudWasp Offline
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a shack in da woods
I'm not flying that plane, but have mixture mapped to my Logitech extreme 3d stick and it works fine. When first starting I move it full range and then leave it on full before switching magnetos to both and starting the engine.

#4003438 - 08/31/14 10:37 PM Re: Mixture/throttle not quite correct [Re: HumanDrone]  
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corsaire31 Offline
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Toulouse, France
I have mixture on one of my Saitek Quadrant levers, just move it full forward before starting engine and it works fine from there on.


Gigabyte Z87P-D3 - CPU I5 4670 Haswell @ 3.6Ghz - 8 Go Ram - GPU HD 7850 2Go OC - SSD Samsung 128Go - HD 2 x WD Black 1 To - 27" Iiyama Pro Lite - Logitech Extreme 3D Pro - Saitek Pro Flight Yoke - Rudder Pedals - Quadrant - Cessna Trim Wheel - Track IR 5 - Logitech G35 headset ... and a big coffee maker !
Flying in FSX/Air Hauler, Wings over Flanders Fields, Rise of Flight, IL2 1946 Hsfx, Condor soaring.
#4003479 - 09/01/14 12:16 AM Re: Mixture/throttle not quite correct [Re: HumanDrone]  
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Robert_Wiggins Offline
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Originally Posted By: HumanDrone
Hello all!

As well, due to my fiddling with the mixture, Captain Triggers flew on without me. It was getting late, so I returned to base & did Ctrl-Q. Can I delete the record of that flight - it looks like I got credit for doing the full flight when in reality I didn't even get to the estuary, much less the other field.

Thanks for any help you can give me. WOFF is my sim of choice; I just wish I could get at it more!

Best,

Tom

(I just thought of this, but I'll go ahead and post. I'll take a free flight in CFS3 and see if it behaves the way one would think, & report back when I can.)


Tom;

If you are using my pilot backup and restore program you can delete the last flight by restoring the pilot from the previous flight, provided you diligently backup the pilot files after every flight. The backup util is on the WOFF official site under the mods section


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#4003489 - 09/01/14 01:00 AM Re: Mixture/throttle not quite correct [Re: HumanDrone]  
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HumanDrone Offline
Just shoot me...
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Near Pittsburgh, PA USA
I thank all of you very much! A great part of the appeal of WOFF, for me, is the people on this site. I know I have not been as diligent in learning about the nuances as I should be - I've worked so much this summer, and come in late so i can get up early and start it all over again. But it's getting dark sooner, and I'm getting little slivers of time here & there where I can get airborne again.

MudWasp, in training it tells me to start the engine by pressing "E." Maybe I should RTM, but how do you do it your way, i.e. selecting both magnetos, etc? Like I said, I'm trying to make it realistic.

Unfortunately, Robert_Wiggins, I'm not using that utility. But it sounds like I need to be! So I guess it's off to the field to see how this works!

Thanks again!

Tom

--------------------------------------------------------
And the update: By setting the mixture to full rich prior to start, it seemed to behave somewhat better. I flew the BE2c in free flight up to 2500 ft, which really shouldn't make much of a difference, but I did have to back off full rich, and at about 30-40% the engine cut out, but immediately restarted when I slid it back toward rich. Still, I found that I have to jiggle the throttle to get the rpms back up. Now I can do this, but I'm wondering if it's a Saitek issue, or a sim issue, or...?

Last edited by HumanDrone; 09/01/14 02:13 AM. Reason: update

Box: Win7 Pro 64 bit / I72600K @4.1 GHz / EVGA GTX1080Ti/ 16GB RAM / Corsair 240 GB SSD / WD 600 GB Velociraptor / 1050W Power
FS Stuff: Saitek X52 Pro Stick/Throttle & Combat Rudder Pedals, TrackIR 5
Sims: FSX Gold, REX 2.0 OD, UTX-NA, FSGenesis 10m mesh/ CFS3 ETO 1.40/Wings Over Flanders Fields BH&H2 (more gorgeous than ever!)
Proud BOC inductee 4/30/12!
#4003555 - 09/01/14 07:49 AM Re: Mixture/throttle not quite correct [Re: HumanDrone]  
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MudWasp Offline
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a shack in da woods
There are key commands for the magnetos.
I still wind up hitting the "E" key to turn the prop.
maybe some one knows of a more realistic way ...

Last edited by MudWasp; 09/01/14 07:55 AM.
#4003557 - 09/01/14 08:22 AM Re: Mixture/throttle not quite correct [Re: HumanDrone]  
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JimAttrill Offline
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I don't worry about the mixture as I have lots of other things on my mind! (Like trying to stay alive...) So I set the mixture to auto in the Workshops.
I normally start with 'E' and the throttle at 100%. But the engine idles until I bring the throttle back and then forward. ( Logitech joystick).


LG 27" 27mp65 monitor; EVGA GTX970 GPU; AMD Ryzen 3500 CPU; Corsair 750w PSU; MSI X470 mobo

RAF 1966-73 Cpl Engine Fitter (Retd.) Trenchard brat 206th Entry
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#4003564 - 09/01/14 08:49 AM Re: Mixture/throttle not quite correct [Re: HumanDrone]  
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MudWasp Offline
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a shack in da woods
Corsaire always has a detailed preflight checklist.
Maybe he will chime in when he has a break in his FSX adventures.

#4003585 - 09/01/14 10:45 AM Re: Mixture/throttle not quite correct [Re: MudWasp]  
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corsaire31 Offline
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Toulouse, France
Originally Posted By: MudWasp
Corsaire always has a detailed preflight checklist.
Maybe he will chime in when he has a break in his FSX adventures.


For the time being he is having holiday adventures ! smile2

In WOFF I don't bother with sophisticated ways of starting the engine : for most german planes mixture on auto (except DR1) for other planes mixture manual. Mixture lever on full rich, throttle opened 10% and press "E"... smile2

My preflight checklist is more about setting environment (Track IR started, Greenshot started, Ctrl I to remove tooltips, TAC on surface units if bombing, etc... )

Last edited by corsaire31; 09/01/14 10:17 PM.

Gigabyte Z87P-D3 - CPU I5 4670 Haswell @ 3.6Ghz - 8 Go Ram - GPU HD 7850 2Go OC - SSD Samsung 128Go - HD 2 x WD Black 1 To - 27" Iiyama Pro Lite - Logitech Extreme 3D Pro - Saitek Pro Flight Yoke - Rudder Pedals - Quadrant - Cessna Trim Wheel - Track IR 5 - Logitech G35 headset ... and a big coffee maker !
Flying in FSX/Air Hauler, Wings over Flanders Fields, Rise of Flight, IL2 1946 Hsfx, Condor soaring.
#4003841 - 09/02/14 02:38 AM Re: Mixture/throttle not quite correct [Re: HumanDrone]  
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HumanDrone Offline
Just shoot me...
HumanDrone  Offline
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To all of you, thanks! I will be reading up more, but I've just been so hungry for "stick time" I just jumped back in. JimAtrill, I see you have the throttle issue too. It must be a generic CFS3 thing. And I sure understand about the "staying alive" part - I may have to go back to auto mixture, as it seems even in training Capt. Triggers is faster than me - I fly at 100% throttle and he's tough to keep up with! Don't you settle back to cruise, 80 to 85% anyway, once your reach altitude?

Corsair, what is your criteria for automixture? Did the German aircraft have it? What's with the DR1, then?

Thanks again all.

Tom


Box: Win7 Pro 64 bit / I72600K @4.1 GHz / EVGA GTX1080Ti/ 16GB RAM / Corsair 240 GB SSD / WD 600 GB Velociraptor / 1050W Power
FS Stuff: Saitek X52 Pro Stick/Throttle & Combat Rudder Pedals, TrackIR 5
Sims: FSX Gold, REX 2.0 OD, UTX-NA, FSGenesis 10m mesh/ CFS3 ETO 1.40/Wings Over Flanders Fields BH&H2 (more gorgeous than ever!)
Proud BOC inductee 4/30/12!
#4003903 - 09/02/14 09:42 AM Re: Mixture/throttle not quite correct [Re: HumanDrone]  
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corsaire31 Offline
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Toulouse, France
German inline Mercedes engines didn't have a mixture control, the mixture was preset (Iirc for an average of 1800m). There was a mixture control on rotative engines ( Eindecker, DR1, DVIII ) and also a "blip switch" which is now modeled in WOFF

Some planes like the Pfalz DXII or Fokker DVIIF used a "Höhengas" device adding extra power at high altitude. It restricts the air intake at lower altitudes to prevent the engine from making full power and destroying itself. At higher altitudes you can open it up and let more air in since the air is thinner.
This is working the other way around : adding air instead of reducing fuel in the air/fuel mixture ratio.

Many planes had radiator controls Albatros DIII, DV, Fokker DVII, Pfalz DIII (also allied ones like the Spads, the SE5a) which are modeled and used in Rise of Flight but not in WOFF


Last edited by corsaire31; 09/02/14 09:49 AM.

Gigabyte Z87P-D3 - CPU I5 4670 Haswell @ 3.6Ghz - 8 Go Ram - GPU HD 7850 2Go OC - SSD Samsung 128Go - HD 2 x WD Black 1 To - 27" Iiyama Pro Lite - Logitech Extreme 3D Pro - Saitek Pro Flight Yoke - Rudder Pedals - Quadrant - Cessna Trim Wheel - Track IR 5 - Logitech G35 headset ... and a big coffee maker !
Flying in FSX/Air Hauler, Wings over Flanders Fields, Rise of Flight, IL2 1946 Hsfx, Condor soaring.
#4004232 - 09/03/14 01:40 AM Re: Mixture/throttle not quite correct [Re: HumanDrone]  
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HumanDrone Offline
Just shoot me...
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Near Pittsburgh, PA USA
Corsaire, you remind me how much academic work I have to do. So do you have different profiles for your controls depending on whether there is a "blip" switch or not? Or, I suppose, the blip switch you've programmed wouldn't respond if it's not in the aircraft model in WOFF. Same deal on the mixture?

Thanks for your help.


Box: Win7 Pro 64 bit / I72600K @4.1 GHz / EVGA GTX1080Ti/ 16GB RAM / Corsair 240 GB SSD / WD 600 GB Velociraptor / 1050W Power
FS Stuff: Saitek X52 Pro Stick/Throttle & Combat Rudder Pedals, TrackIR 5
Sims: FSX Gold, REX 2.0 OD, UTX-NA, FSGenesis 10m mesh/ CFS3 ETO 1.40/Wings Over Flanders Fields BH&H2 (more gorgeous than ever!)
Proud BOC inductee 4/30/12!
#4004306 - 09/03/14 08:08 AM Re: Mixture/throttle not quite correct [Re: HumanDrone]  
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corsaire31 Offline
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Toulouse, France
Right, I have only one profile, blip switch is a button on my joystick, simply unused if not on the plane. Same with mixture when on auto I don't use the mixture lever.


Gigabyte Z87P-D3 - CPU I5 4670 Haswell @ 3.6Ghz - 8 Go Ram - GPU HD 7850 2Go OC - SSD Samsung 128Go - HD 2 x WD Black 1 To - 27" Iiyama Pro Lite - Logitech Extreme 3D Pro - Saitek Pro Flight Yoke - Rudder Pedals - Quadrant - Cessna Trim Wheel - Track IR 5 - Logitech G35 headset ... and a big coffee maker !
Flying in FSX/Air Hauler, Wings over Flanders Fields, Rise of Flight, IL2 1946 Hsfx, Condor soaring.
#4004307 - 09/03/14 08:15 AM Re: Mixture/throttle not quite correct [Re: HumanDrone]  
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Polovski Offline
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Btw there is animation on some radiators - you can open and close in Albatros and some other craft - not 'used' currently.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4004779 - 09/04/14 02:19 AM Re: Mixture/throttle not quite correct [Re: HumanDrone]  
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HumanDrone Offline
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Pol, between Ankor's shadow mod and the zepplins, sounds like you fellows are quite busy! Thanks for the tip.

And wow! So with the Höhengas I think one may be better off - for a carb can deliver fuel at a given rate (esp if it's gravity fed) and if you have to lean it out as you go higher, you certainly aren't bringing as much energy into the engine; whereas feeding the same fuel flow as at sea level and bringing in more air to match the fuel flow - as long as the drag isn't excessive - it seems on first principles that your high altitude performance would be better, all other things being equal. Hmmmm... <scratches chin and wanders off..>


Box: Win7 Pro 64 bit / I72600K @4.1 GHz / EVGA GTX1080Ti/ 16GB RAM / Corsair 240 GB SSD / WD 600 GB Velociraptor / 1050W Power
FS Stuff: Saitek X52 Pro Stick/Throttle & Combat Rudder Pedals, TrackIR 5
Sims: FSX Gold, REX 2.0 OD, UTX-NA, FSGenesis 10m mesh/ CFS3 ETO 1.40/Wings Over Flanders Fields BH&H2 (more gorgeous than ever!)
Proud BOC inductee 4/30/12!
#4004848 - 09/04/14 07:32 AM Re: Mixture/throttle not quite correct [Re: HumanDrone]  
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corsaire31 Offline
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Toulouse, France
Sorry, should have been more precise : you can move the radiator lever on a few planes but it has no effect on engine temperature. So wether you use it or not doesn't make any difference.


Gigabyte Z87P-D3 - CPU I5 4670 Haswell @ 3.6Ghz - 8 Go Ram - GPU HD 7850 2Go OC - SSD Samsung 128Go - HD 2 x WD Black 1 To - 27" Iiyama Pro Lite - Logitech Extreme 3D Pro - Saitek Pro Flight Yoke - Rudder Pedals - Quadrant - Cessna Trim Wheel - Track IR 5 - Logitech G35 headset ... and a big coffee maker !
Flying in FSX/Air Hauler, Wings over Flanders Fields, Rise of Flight, IL2 1946 Hsfx, Condor soaring.
#4005013 - 09/04/14 03:59 PM Re: Mixture/throttle not quite correct [Re: HumanDrone]  
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HumanDrone Offline
Just shoot me...
HumanDrone  Offline
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Near Pittsburgh, PA USA
Oh, I was talking about real-life (very simplistically, at that).


Box: Win7 Pro 64 bit / I72600K @4.1 GHz / EVGA GTX1080Ti/ 16GB RAM / Corsair 240 GB SSD / WD 600 GB Velociraptor / 1050W Power
FS Stuff: Saitek X52 Pro Stick/Throttle & Combat Rudder Pedals, TrackIR 5
Sims: FSX Gold, REX 2.0 OD, UTX-NA, FSGenesis 10m mesh/ CFS3 ETO 1.40/Wings Over Flanders Fields BH&H2 (more gorgeous than ever!)
Proud BOC inductee 4/30/12!
#4005049 - 09/04/14 05:08 PM Re: Mixture/throttle not quite correct [Re: HumanDrone]  
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MudWasp Offline
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a shack in da woods
Corsaire, I've been using the radiator lever and had wondered if it was just for show or had an effect on engine temp.

I've tried running the magnetos on settings other than both. Haven't noticed any difference yet. I was hoping it might allow me to nurse a random engine failure a little longer so a safer landing could be made.


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