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#4000423 - 08/24/14 09:42 PM Oculus Rift in DCS: World - Quick Look Video  
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Bunyap Offline
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Here is a look at the Oculus Rift DK2 and how it works with DCS: World at the moment. It is already one of the neatest experiences I have had in flight simming but it is just a fraction short of replacing my monitor at this point. Maybe soon...

The first eight minutes or so are just set-up so feel free to skip that part if you want to get straight to the impressions of the flight.






Last edited by Bunyap; 08/24/14 09:42 PM.
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#4000445 - 08/24/14 10:19 PM Re: Oculus Rift in DCS: World - Quick Look Video [Re: Bunyap]  
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Fridge Offline
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Excellent to watch. Work is getting one in tomorrow and I am looking forward to borrowing it every now and then to play around with. Wooo!


Fridge
----------
Things which do you no good in aviation:
1) Altitude above you;
2) Runway behind you;
3) Fuel in the truck;
4) The airspeed you don't have.
#4000447 - 08/24/14 10:23 PM Re: Oculus Rift in DCS: World - Quick Look Video [Re: Bunyap]  
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I'm quite looking forward to the Consumer Version.


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#4000627 - 08/25/14 01:18 PM Re: Oculus Rift in DCS: World - Quick Look Video [Re: Bunyap]  
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Thanks for that video. I sure hope the developers really go for a 4k consumer version - either up front or as an "OR 2" release. Facebook easily can provide the necessary funding.

http://www.dvice.com/2013-10-21/oculus-rift-vr-4k-resolution-display-development


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#4000724 - 08/25/14 05:00 PM Re: Oculus Rift in DCS: World - Quick Look Video [Re: Jayhawk]  
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Originally Posted By: Jayhawk
Thanks for that video. I sure hope the developers really go for a 4k consumer version - either up front or as an "OR 2" release. Facebook easily can provide the necessary funding.

http://www.dvice.com/2013-10-21/oculus-rift-vr-4k-resolution-display-development


I'm quite sure the Oculus developers are quite aware that the consumer version display will need a significant upgrade for their VR unit to be successful. The problem is the cpu/gpu horsepower required to drive these high resolution displays. That said there appears to be significant improvements coming from the Oculus and Intel/AMD/Nvidia teams that may make this possible without alienating most peoples average computers.


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#4000802 - 08/25/14 08:25 PM Re: Oculus Rift in DCS: World - Quick Look Video [Re: Bunyap]  
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I don't think the hardware will be that much of a problem to be honest. At the moment I'm running 4 screens through SoftTH and eyefinity, pushing a res of 5900 x 1900.
That is on an aging i5 k2500 and a AMD7970 gpu, wich gives pretty smooth framerates.
I do have to turn down some options though, I think shadows are medium, and no heat blur..

What is 4k exactly, 4096 x 2160 or somesuch? Wiki mentions a tv 4k standard also, with a bit lower res?

Oh, and thanks for making the video Bunyap, that's some of the best flight sim angled preview of the Rift I've seen. Now I really really really want one!


Fortes Fortuna Juvat
#4000806 - 08/25/14 08:39 PM Re: Oculus Rift in DCS: World - Quick Look Video [Re: Dachs]  
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Originally Posted By: Dachs
I don't think the hardware will be that much of a problem to be honest. At the moment I'm running 4 screens through SoftTH and eyefinity, pushing a res of 5900 x 1900.
That is on an aging i5 k2500 and a AMD7970 gpu, wich gives pretty smooth framerates.
I do have to turn down some options though, I think shadows are medium, and no heat blur..

What is 4k exactly, 4096 x 2160 or somesuch? Wiki mentions a tv 4k standard also, with a bit lower res?

Oh, and thanks for making the video Bunyap, that's some of the best flight sim angled preview of the Rift I've seen. Now I really really really want one!


You need to push about 70-90 fps for good VR though; whereas 30-50 is totally playable on a 2d screen.

It IS possible, but it's still at the high-end right now.


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#4000807 - 08/25/14 08:42 PM Re: Oculus Rift in DCS: World - Quick Look Video [Re: Dachs]  
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Originally Posted By: Dachs
I don't think the hardware will be that much of a problem to be honest. At the moment I'm running 4 screens through SoftTH and eyefinity, pushing a res of 5900 x 1900.
That is on an aging i5 k2500 and a AMD7970 gpu, wich gives pretty smooth framerates.
I do have to turn down some options though, I think shadows are medium, and no heat blur..

What is 4k exactly, 4096 x 2160 or somesuch? Wiki mentions a tv 4k standard also, with a bit lower res?

Oh, and thanks for making the video Bunyap, that's some of the best flight sim angled preview of the Rift I've seen. Now I really really really want one!


3840x2160


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#4000812 - 08/25/14 08:54 PM Re: Oculus Rift in DCS: World - Quick Look Video [Re: Cobra847]  
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Dachs Offline
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Originally Posted By: Cobra847

You need to push about 70-90 fps for good VR though; whereas 30-50 is totally playable on a 2d screen.

It IS possible, but it's still at the high-end right now.


Oh,in that case I very much agree, I doubt my rig average much above 40 fps in DCS

Is this because of two seperate pictures are being rendered, meaning fps are shared between them and effectively cut in half? (I really need to read up on the tech)


Fortes Fortuna Juvat
#4000842 - 08/25/14 10:17 PM Re: Oculus Rift in DCS: World - Quick Look Video [Re: Dachs]  
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Originally Posted By: Dachs


Is this because of two seperate pictures are being rendered, meaning fps are shared between them and effectively cut in half? (I really need to read up on the tech)


Not quite. The rift screen (DK2) isn't 2 X full HD displays, it is effectively a single 1080 x 1920 screen cut in half so each eye gets 1080 X 960 each in portrait (a current hot topic on the Rift forums but I digress). To that end, it's no more resource hungry than a single 1080p monitor however the Rift hardware updates at 75hz and to achieve frame sync you ideally need 75fps which a lot of high end cards won't even get with DCS partly due to lack of optimisation in the game.

The Edge update and DX11 has been touted as more efficient so hopefully we'll receive a performance increase and framer ates closer to 75fps for the Rift....in 2024 when 'Edge' arrives. (subject to change)


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#4000873 - 08/25/14 11:45 PM Re: Oculus Rift in DCS: World - Quick Look Video [Re: Bunyap]  
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Remon Offline
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Rift CV1 shouldn't get released for another 1 year, at the very least, probably even not for a good 2 years from now. By then the hardware's gonna be there, since we're talking about one or two GPU generations. Depending of course on how good EDGE be at taking advantage of the hardware.

Last edited by Remon; 08/25/14 11:48 PM.
#4000887 - 08/26/14 12:15 AM Re: Oculus Rift in DCS: World - Quick Look Video [Re: Bunyap]  
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Chivas Offline
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The Oculus developer has suggested that they have basicly nailed down the hardware specs, so there is a chance that the consumer version could be out by the end of next year.

The consumer version may even run at 90hz up from the 75hz of the DK2. Everyone from gamers, too game developers, Oculus developers, GPU hardware/driver developers will need to up their game considerably for VR to be a success.


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#4001713 - 08/27/14 10:09 PM Re: Oculus Rift in DCS: World - Quick Look Video [Re: Bunyap]  
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Fridge Offline
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Hey Bunyap. Couple of questions if you don't mind.

I've managed to get my (well, work's) DK2 working but I have a couple of issues with DCS.

1) I can't flick any switches. I make the OR the primary display, and I have a cursor that changes colour from yellow to green over various switches but right or left click doesn't do anything;

2) I seem to be sitting waaay to far forward. On the OR display, the center console appears to be almost in my chest. And if I look backward, I am in front of my seat ... like I am sitting an inch behind the stick;

Any suggestions?

EDIT: Got it sorted. It was the 5 key on the numpad, like you mentioned in the video :-)

Last edited by Fridge; 08/27/14 10:38 PM.

Fridge
----------
Things which do you no good in aviation:
1) Altitude above you;
2) Runway behind you;
3) Fuel in the truck;
4) The airspeed you don't have.
#4001729 - 08/27/14 10:53 PM Re: Oculus Rift in DCS: World - Quick Look Video [Re: Bunyap]  
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Fridge Offline
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Fredericton, NB, Canada
O
M
G

I don't have the words. Given that this display needs to be higher resolution (about double) and given that most of the cockpit displays are impossible to read (not necessarily the resolution thing) and given that my frame rates were not really enough to do it justice - GTX 660s in SLI ...

O
M
G

I actually, when starting to taxi the A-10C toward the runway, I got a chill feeling like I was actually taking this thing up for a flight! I mean, apprehension, thrill, maybe a little adrenaline rush, awe that someone would trust me to fly an expensive piece of hardware ... pretty mush what I imagine a pilot going for his first solo would feel. And then flying around, pulling, pushing and becoming momentarily disoriented when I did all of that. Hesitating when you get close to the ground and you want to pull your feet up or clench your butt 'cause you are gonna brush the grass. Landing, and floating there just over the runway waiting for your wheels to touch.

And all that on a display that still has the 'screen door' effect (like you are looking through a screen door and seeing the lines between the pixels), meaning that it wasn't as graphically believable as it could be - ie: the immersion was there but you could still tell you were playing a game, easily.

O
M
G

Last edited by Fridge; 08/27/14 11:59 PM.

Fridge
----------
Things which do you no good in aviation:
1) Altitude above you;
2) Runway behind you;
3) Fuel in the truck;
4) The airspeed you don't have.
#4001739 - 08/27/14 11:36 PM Re: Oculus Rift in DCS: World - Quick Look Video [Re: Bunyap]  
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EinsteinEP Offline
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Different game series, but try Rise of Flight with the Rift. I have to fly with labels on because of the poor resolution and inability to look under/over the wings, but mind = blown

The resolution, refresh rate, and motion-blur (I think Oculus calls it "persistency") need to be fixed before this device will be effective in "high contact" cockpits like most of those in DCS World. I fully expect they'll get there and am very much looking forward to that day!


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#4001742 - 08/27/14 11:40 PM Re: Oculus Rift in DCS: World - Quick Look Video [Re: Cobra847]  
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SkateZilla Offline
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Originally Posted By: Cobra847
Originally Posted By: Dachs
I don't think the hardware will be that much of a problem to be honest. At the moment I'm running 4 screens through SoftTH and eyefinity, pushing a res of 5900 x 1900.
That is on an aging i5 k2500 and a AMD7970 gpu, wich gives pretty smooth framerates.
I do have to turn down some options though, I think shadows are medium, and no heat blur..

What is 4k exactly, 4096 x 2160 or somesuch? Wiki mentions a tv 4k standard also, with a bit lower res?

Oh, and thanks for making the video Bunyap, that's some of the best flight sim angled preview of the Rift I've seen. Now I really really really want one!


You need to push about 70-90 fps for good VR though; whereas 30-50 is totally playable on a 2d screen.

It IS possible, but it's still at the high-end right now.


I get 45 FPS Stable across 4 screens (well 3 + Helios) on a single card, my 2nd GPU doesnt do anything during DCS,
SO once we get DX11 and XFire/SLi Support :), I'm thinkin' 120 FPS Stable,

Now, If I drop to a Single Screen 60 FPS Stable is good for 95% of the time, unless some everything catches fire and when the sun is on the horizon it drops to about 10FPS regardless of screens.

Single Screen 1 Viewport Super Sampled to 4K is about 45 FPS Stable.
Single Screen 2 Viewports @ 1080p is about 30 FPS at Max Details.
Single Screen 2 Viewports Super Sampled to 4K is about 23 FPS at Max Details.

Even with Hawaii (R9-290/Xs), only expect like 20% More overall power in DX9, Max. so maybe 6-11 FPS More.

The FPS drops severely in certain situations, but that's likely a DX9 Issue to be resolved with EDGE.

So Hopefully Single Screen @ 4k and 2 Viewports with 2 Crossfired 7970s Overclocked is enough to Run 75Hz on a Rift CV


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#4001749 - 08/27/14 11:57 PM Re: Oculus Rift in DCS: World - Quick Look Video [Re: EinsteinEP]  
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Fridge Offline
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Originally Posted By: EinsteinEP
Different game series, but try Rise of Flight with the Rift. I have to fly with labels on because of the poor resolution and inability to look under/over the wings, but mind = blown

The resolution, refresh rate, and motion-blur (I think Oculus calls it "persistency") need to be fixed before this device will be effective in "high contact" cockpits like most of those in DCS World. I fully expect they'll get there and am very much looking forward to that day!


For me the few points I noticed after about 2 hours of flight (A-10C take off, maneuvers, landing; F-86 free flight; UH-1H takeoff, maneuvers, landing) are like this:

1) With the current resolution, looking at anything in the distance (hundred meters or so and beyond) and I can see the pixels and they interfere with me seeing any detail;

2) Close in, I can't ready the guages. If I know what I am looking for (speed) I can see and read it but if I don't (altitude where you need that second needle to know 10K +/-) and I can't read it. Warning lights, switches, etc. Not sure if this is display related or some other technology (DCS or Oculus Rift (motion blur artifact or something, just guessing?);

3) Can't use the keyboard so no calling the tower or setting the ROE in the UH-1H, etc;

4) The cursor for flicking the switches seems to be off target. It might be more because I have one eye dominating over the other so I am not getting a good balanced picture for my brain to process but every now it's hard to hit some of the switches. This is a DCS problem, I think;

Don't get me wrong. This has me seriously excited about the technology and it's promise for immerse flight simming. I will give it a go on the weekend to see how it is in a multi player environment but TeamSpeak is going to be a must :-)

I will try Rise of Flight as well. I need a good demo game that I can bring in to work (it's works' OC DK2 I am using) so help showcase the capabilities and maybe RoF will fit the bill better.

Can I call in sick tomorrow? Hmmm.


Fridge
----------
Things which do you no good in aviation:
1) Altitude above you;
2) Runway behind you;
3) Fuel in the truck;
4) The airspeed you don't have.
#4001752 - 08/28/14 12:02 AM Re: Oculus Rift in DCS: World - Quick Look Video [Re: Bunyap]  
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Fridge Offline
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Fridge  Offline
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I am running 2 GTX 660s in SLI and, as Skate says, knowing that only one is being really used, I am getting 'good enough' FPS in the free flight missing (F-86) or custom mission with no other objects (A-10C, UH-1H) to be able to fly without an issue. I would the FPS from this setup adequate to fly.

I will give it a try tomorrow on a mission with some other stuff going on to see how it goes.


Fridge
----------
Things which do you no good in aviation:
1) Altitude above you;
2) Runway behind you;
3) Fuel in the truck;
4) The airspeed you don't have.
#4001759 - 08/28/14 12:43 AM Re: Oculus Rift in DCS: World - Quick Look Video [Re: Fridge]  
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SkateZilla Offline
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Originally Posted By: Fridge
Originally Posted By: EinsteinEP
Different game series, but try Rise of Flight with the Rift. I have to fly with labels on because of the poor resolution and inability to look under/over the wings, but mind = blown

The resolution, refresh rate, and motion-blur (I think Oculus calls it "persistency") need to be fixed before this device will be effective in "high contact" cockpits like most of those in DCS World. I fully expect they'll get there and am very much looking forward to that day!


For me the few points I noticed after about 2 hours of flight (A-10C take off, maneuvers, landing; F-86 free flight; UH-1H takeoff, maneuvers, landing) are like this:

1) With the current resolution, looking at anything in the distance (hundred meters or so and beyond) and I can see the pixels and they interfere with me seeing any detail;

2) Close in, I can't ready the guages. If I know what I am looking for (speed) I can see and read it but if I don't (altitude where you need that second needle to know 10K +/-) and I can't read it. Warning lights, switches, etc. Not sure if this is display related or some other technology (DCS or Oculus Rift (motion blur artifact or something, just guessing?);

3) Can't use the keyboard so no calling the tower or setting the ROE in the UH-1H, etc;

4) The cursor for flicking the switches seems to be off target. It might be more because I have one eye dominating over the other so I am not getting a good balanced picture for my brain to process but every now it's hard to hit some of the switches. This is a DCS problem, I think;

Don't get me wrong. This has me seriously excited about the technology and it's promise for immerse flight simming. I will give it a go on the weekend to see how it is in a multi player environment but TeamSpeak is going to be a must :-)

I will try Rise of Flight as well. I need a good demo game that I can bring in to work (it's works' OC DK2 I am using) so help showcase the capabilities and maybe RoF will fit the bill better.

Can I call in sick tomorrow? Hmmm.


the Persistence issue is fixed if you are able to achieve and maintain the 75 FPS to match the screen's refresh rate.

basically, drop everything to low low low low low low low.

Like I said, 1x 1080p screen with 2 view ports (left and right eye), only gets me about 30 FPS with my normal eyecandy settings, you need 75 FPS to get the most out of the OVR Screen, even then, the resolution isnt enough yet.

I'm waiting to see what the modders/hackers get when they take it apart and swap the screen with the Samsung QuadHD Screen ( I think the note 4 screen is actually only 2560x1440p). 4K+ is expected in 2014. LG Already has a few.

Last edited by SkateZilla; 08/28/14 12:51 AM.

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3x ASUS VS248HP + Hanns�G HZ201HPB + Acer AL2002 (5760x1080+1600x900+1680x1050), Oculus Rift CV
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#4003632 - 09/01/14 03:53 PM Re: Oculus Rift in DCS: World - Quick Look Video [Re: Bunyap]  
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Fridge Offline
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Fridge  Offline
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Fredericton, NB, Canada
I played around with the Oculus Rift DK2 a bit more yesterday. DCS was my prime target and flying the UH-1H in there was a blast. It is amazing how much of a sense of depth that you get. I was able to hover around the ILS truck at Batumi at a distance of about 5 feet with my nose pointed at it the entire time, something I would have not tried before and I think it was because I couldn't adequately judge the distance. With the OR the cockpits feel tighter and a lot less roomy and the ground is more of a real thing.

Now get out past 200m (maybe 300m) and all that detail disappears. The screen resolution is just not adequate. I set up a few parked trucks at the abandoned air field north of Batumi and it was very difficult to see them until they were within that 300m range (and not because I had set the visible distance down low).

I can't wait to get this (if the screen resolution can be increased by at least 2x). I know that LG has a 4k cell phone screen coming out so hopefully the consumer version of the Oculur Rift has something close to that.

I started to try to get Rise of Flight going but I am confused about what I need to get the head tracking going. There is a distinct difference between games that incorporate a link to the OR versus those that take advantage of something like VorpX (which, as I understand it, uses the Z-buffer depth to calculate an approximate 'depth' for each of your eyes in the OR. This is not as good a solution as having the direct link to OR in your game. IF someone has some decent, high success rate steps for Rise of Flight, I would love to give them a try. I don't think Rise of Flight has native support.

Same goes for Arma3. I downloaded/purchased VorpX but I can't get past the Arma3 menu (its in the bottom left and the center mouse button pan in VorpX doesn't seem to be working).

I have not tried Elite: Dangerous yet. I need to get back from my San Jose trip week after next before I load it on my credit card :-)


Fridge
----------
Things which do you no good in aviation:
1) Altitude above you;
2) Runway behind you;
3) Fuel in the truck;
4) The airspeed you don't have.
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