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#3790617 - 06/01/13 06:40 PM Pop up pattern  
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sUrgeon Offline
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Pop-up pattern

Ever since I flew F4, I was in love with A2G pop-up attacks.
I've tried to collect everything I could find about pop up attacks with the DCS A10C, and share the part which I think is helpful, to train yourself with a pop-up pattern.
Perhaps you would like to give it a try.




Data:

Leaving IP at 5nM, pattern altitude 500ft, speed 300kts, all turns 2-3 “G”.

At 2.7 nM turn (full power) 45 degrees offset, after turn directly 2-3 “G” pull to the desired climb angle (5 degrees greater then the planned dive angle), in this case 15 degrees.

At 1700ft roll in to target (3G), apex is around 1900ft, pull guncross at AOP (=Angle Off Point) behind the target, roll out, wings level 10 degrees nose down, put DRC (Desired Release Cue) on target, let CCIP reticle crawl to your DRC/target, pickle.
If it doesn’t look right on roll out or you are too low (min alt 800ft), abort. (Keep in mind the weapon frag pattern.)

No SEM (Safe Escape Manuever) just an easy 1-2 "G" turn, after the turn descend to pattern altitude.

Go around in the pattern, and start again from IP.

DSMS settings: MK82, release type = RIP SGL,RIP QTY 2, ripple interval 50 FT, release mode is CCIP, DTOF 6.1 sec (gives the DRC)


Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3790802 - 06/02/13 04:17 AM Re: Pop up pattern [Re: sUrgeon]  
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I find the A-10 hard to do these attacks because of the tight energy budget. A 500 knot twin after-burning monster it is not. The key aspect to this kind of maneuver I found is being able to get eyes on the target early and keeping them throughout the reversal into the dive. Practicing with something bright and obvious like a smoke marker should prevent a lot of frustration. I was never so precise as getting the DRC on target.

Another interesting pop up maneuver is the bump for Mavericks.

#3792496 - 06/05/13 06:32 PM Re: Pop up pattern [Re: sUrgeon]  
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Biggest Little City
What is the best way to determine and use AOP? This is for visual bombing in general.


"A desire not to butt into other people's business is at least eighty percent of all human 'wisdom' . . . and the other twenty percent isn't very important." - Jubal Harshaw
#3792498 - 06/05/13 06:37 PM Re: Pop up pattern [Re: sUrgeon]  
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Hey Soupy...don't see it defined above.

The AOP is the point on the ground, long of the target, at which the aircraft must fly to during the weapon’s delivery pass. The AOP provides a ground reference to fly the aircraft to until a track reference can be set. So it's really pilot discretion to establish what their AOP is going to be based on the geographical elements around that target.

Last edited by paulrkiii; 06/05/13 06:38 PM.
#3792506 - 06/05/13 06:54 PM Re: Pop up pattern [Re: sUrgeon]  
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Thanks Snoopy smile Definition wise, I know what it is, but I also know that your DAPS calculates it for you for profiles. Guess my question is, whats the best method to determine it visually or without DAPS? I would imagine it'd be shorter for higher angle deliveries and longer for lower angle?

I've had a great time learning and using the battle book, but thats been one thing I just can't seem to get down. Thanks!


"A desire not to butt into other people's business is at least eighty percent of all human 'wisdom' . . . and the other twenty percent isn't very important." - Jubal Harshaw
#3792590 - 06/05/13 10:26 PM Re: Pop up pattern [Re: sUrgeon]  
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I'm looking forward to the next addon by Sabre as that will have this stuff in it.



"Trust me I know what I'm doing" Detective Sledge Hammer
#3792604 - 06/05/13 10:57 PM Re: Pop up pattern [Re: sUrgeon]  
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Some handy MP tactics:

Single side offset:



Split attack




"Trust me I know what I'm doing" Detective Sledge Hammer
#3793912 - 06/09/13 03:24 AM Re: Pop up pattern [Re: sUrgeon]  
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I had a lot of success in sim F-16s with a "pop up" attack illustrated in Mckinnon's book "Bullseye Iraq". I just never seem to have the "smash" I need when in this sim A-10 to do much of a pop up. I will have to give this a try

#3793915 - 06/09/13 03:40 AM Re: Pop up pattern [Re: Toonsis]  
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Originally Posted By: Toonsis
I had a lot of success in sim F-16s with a "pop up" attack illustrated in Mckinnon's book "Bullseye Iraq". I just never seem to have the "smash" I need when in this sim A-10 to do much of a pop up. I will have to give this a try


It can be done you just have to have a realistic weapons loud. Trying to do it with 6 mavs, 2 AIM-9s, ECM Pod, TGP, 2 GBU12s, and 2 GBU38s well you'll never get her to work out right because you'll bleed off speed to quick. (to be clear not saying you're doing this, but many people do)

Try first with 1*CAP-9, 1*TGM-65D, 1*TGM-65H, and 6*BDU-33s. This is the most common real world training weapons load and you should be able to accomplish. Once you get the basics down slowly move on to something like 2*AIM-9s, 1*AGM-65D, 1*AGM-65H, and 4*MK-82s.


Last edited by paulrkiii; 06/09/13 03:40 AM.
#3793923 - 06/09/13 04:49 AM Re: Pop up pattern [Re: sUrgeon]  
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I like to call empty pylons "knot munitions." ^.^

#3794089 - 06/09/13 08:36 PM Re: Pop up pattern [Re: sUrgeon]  
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sUrgeon Offline
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Here a little video:


Last edited by sUrgeon; 06/09/13 08:46 PM.
#3794173 - 06/10/13 12:34 AM Re: Pop up pattern [Re: sUrgeon]  
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Nice video dude.



"Trust me I know what I'm doing" Detective Sledge Hammer
#3794495 - 06/10/13 07:36 PM Re: Pop up pattern [Re: sUrgeon]  
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Not bad at all.

Pop and roll in were spot on, but your SEM needs some work. Not sure if you were going for a turning or turn level turn SEM, but make sure you do it as one smooth action and get that 4G load on nice and sharply. Don't be afraid to throw it around with max aileron deflection.

Last edited by Eddie; 06/10/13 07:36 PM.

Eddie

#3849717 - 10/14/13 02:24 AM Re: Pop up pattern [Re: SoupyC]  
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sUrgeon Offline
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Originally Posted By: SoupyC
What is the best way to determine and use AOP? This is for visual bombing in general.





At a bombing range, you can use "Aim off markers".

Thanks to Noodles (476th vFG) weapon range targets.
Weapon range targets

#3849775 - 10/14/13 07:29 AM Re: Pop up pattern [Re: sUrgeon]  
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That's a nifty range for practice. In not too much time you get a good eye for what various distances look like.

#3989643 - 08/02/14 09:26 AM Re: Pop up pattern [Re: sUrgeon]  
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sUrgeon Offline
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2-ship pop-up attack
 
Options:
1) #1 VLD, #2 offset pop-up
2) #1 direct pop-up, #2 offset pop-up with altitude deconfliction (fragment pattern)
3) #1 and #2 offset pop-ups in different offset + or - 45 degrees, or echelon, with altitude deconfliction
4) #1 and #2 offset pop-up in trail with time deconfliction. Pop up echelon, 2-ship split.
 


Figure direct and offset popup
 
Simultaneous Attacks
First, let's look at the maximum bomb fragmentation travel chart  (see Table). This data must be used to determine fragment deconfliction between multiple aircraft attacks. The envelopes present the maximum altitude and maximum horizontal range anticipated for the worst-case fragment of the bomb case, and the time from detonation until all bomb case fragments have settled to the ground. Data are provided for sea level and 5000' target density altitudes.
 

Figure simultaneous attack
 
 
 The  frag pattern (MK82) takes 9 seconds to form for about 24.4 seconds (at sea level). In order to avoid the frag pattern you simply need to "not be there" when it reaches such an altitude/distance, this is easily achieved if you perform a proper delivery, especially including the SEM.



As long as you set up your weapon profile correctly (including the SEM) and then execute your delivery as planned paying attention to the HUD cues (the MRC and abort cues) you'll be fine. If you descend below the MRC and/or see the abort cues in the HUD (X in the CCIP pipper) abort and you'll be fine.
 

Figure bomb fragment travel
 
Time Deconfliction
Time separation between aircraft deliveries must be equal to or greater than the time the preceding weapon's fragments are in the air, plus the delivery TOF of the preceding munition. To ensure frag deconfliction from the last weapon in the string, attack intervals should include the time required for the ripple/train release.
The classic method to achieve time separation is to space the aircraft in elements 2 to 3 nm in trail. Line abreast to a trail formation of 2-3 nm can be accomplished quickly using variations of a 90/90 maneuver:
• The wingman turns 90o off the ingress heading for approximately 20 seconds.
• After 20 seconds, the flight leader should have traveled 3 nm and the wingman then turns back to the target.
• Some visual contact may be lost; initiate close to the target but far enough out to avoid getting jammed.
Advantages:
• A more flexible attack is possible if navigation accuracy or target acquisition is questionable.
• Subsequent flight members can bomb off of lead’s bomb impact.
Disadvantages:
• The wingman flies single-ship close to the target area.
• The flight strings out, which reduces visual mutual support and complicates post-attack rejoin.


 
Figure 90/90 maneuver
 
Altitude Deconfliction
Following aircraft must recover above the maximum altitude for the fragment envelope for the preceding attacker's munition. For example, a 3150' minimum recovery altitude is required for a MK 84 delivery at a 5000' target density altitude (Maximum Bomb fragment Table).
Advantages:
• The wingman will have more time to acquire the target.
• High release enables a direct, radar-fuzed CBU delivery.
• Weapon effects improve with increased impact angle.
• Allows simultaneous attacks on a point target.
Disadvantages:
• Weather must permit higher-altitude deliveries.
• Exposure time for wingmen is increased.
• Depending on release altitude, puts wingman in the heart of threat envelopes.
 
 
Horizontal Deconfliction
Based on data from the same chart, targets separated by a lateral distance of more than 3715' (TDA 5000') are clear of the frag envelope. This means that no portion of the delivery/recovery by succeeding aircraft should be closer to the target than the 3715' minimum. If attack headings are not parallel, more lateral spacing between targets is required.
Advantages:
• Visual contact is maintained throughout.
• Simultaneous attack saturates defenses.
• Reduces flight exposure time.
Disadvantages:
• Large target is required.
• Flight path conflict over the target is possible.
 
Flying A Tactical Pop-Up
Whether you'll be a leader or wingman, there are three things you can do that will greatly improve your chances of success: know the profile, navigate precisely, and recognize and correct for errors. It helps to have a sketch of the attack on your leg.


Some very good articles (by Andy Bush) can be found here:
http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_092a.html
http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_101a.html

Last edited by sUrgeon; 08/02/14 01:27 PM.

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