I need a joystick!

I have an old X45 still, but it's losing it's center and it takes up a lot of space. For instance, I have the DCS A10 module and it's an absolute bear trying to fly the thing because for one: it won't stay centered and two: the rudder is a rocker switch on the throttle.

I also have a MS Force Feedback 2, which I adore. It's got a twist rudder and a little throttle in just the right spot. It's also a smaller footprint. However, it's old and the FFB doesn't work anymore as the plug in the base has come unsoldered or something and won't work. Otherwise the stick works great - but have you tried flying a plane with a limp stick (no jokes, please lol)? It's tiring and hurts!

So, aside from grabbing another FFB2 off eBay, what sticks would you suggest? I don't have the budget for the Warthog flight stick or HOTAS from Thrustmaster. I'd prefer something with a throttle on the base rather than separate. And something DURABLE - optical sensors preferred as this FFB2 still doesn't lose it's center. Thanks!

A big favorite around these parts is the T.16000M from Thrustmaster, if you just want a stick, cheap.

http://www.amazon.com/Hercules-2960706-T...=thrustmaster+t

PS: I can't speak to build quality, but I guess the sensors in the stick are better, being HALL sensors instead of potentiometers. Others will be able to explain all that better than me.

PSS: The CH Fighterstick is also a favorite, and I think it has a built in Axis on the base that can be used for a throttle. Not as many buttons on the base, but very ergo.

http://www.amazon.com/CH-Products-200-57...ts+fighterstick

PSSS: I don't think the Fighterstick has a twist in the handle for rudder control, if that is important to you.

Thanks Doc.

The twist-rudder is a big deal for me. It's by far the most natural way to control the rudder for me. I spent many an hour with my FFB in IL2 as a 109 pilot using that rudder and lining up ILS with my F16 in Falcon 4.0.

I was initially wary of the 16k simply because it was so cheap - I know this is stuff you get what you pay for.

About $100 is what I was hoping to spend - I'm going to go read up on that TM you initially posted. Thanks!

Since the actual games support different (brands) controllers, you can make a "HOTAS" with you actual hardware.

MSFF2 as stick, and X-45 throttle as throttle, the rocketer rudder can be map for other functions.
The downsize is the X-45 throttle only can by hooked on PC via X-45 stick (leave then under desk).

Probable the power connector of MSSF2 is broken, maybe worth open and take a look - caution because input is 110/220 volts.

The suggested T.16000-M is the best option in "all-in-1 joystick" due HALL sensor (same kind of Warthog) on X-Y axis, unfortunately use low cost/durability potentiometers for throttle and rudder axis...



Yes, none of CH joystick models have "twist rudder".

Av8r

Ah yes, a franken-HOTAS. Didn't even think of that. Strong call.

I did pop open the bottom and it's true - one of the solder connectors to the plug is broken, the other is just fine.

I got a soldering iron and some solder and re-soldered it but no joy - solder just doesn't want to flow right.

I've not heard of this "franken-HOTAS" setup - I just plug all 3 in and only use the X45 throttle and the FFB2 stick?

What's the centering force like on the 16k?

T.16000-M use a slight strong spring coil (IMO).



Yes, for "modern" flight simulators - say il-2 Sturmovik 2001 and later ones - you can use in this way.

But some "modern" games - like for example BF3, ARMA... only recognize input from one controller.

The most common "Franken-HOTAS" is use MS FF2 joystick plus Saitek X-52 throttle (this one dont require X-52 joystick plugged to work).

Sokol1

I know in the Racing sim market, there are some mighty fine companies that put out high-end simulator wheels and pedals (Fanatec, some Japanese site that has a 1500 base w/no wheel, etc). Are there any specialty companies like that for joysticks?

EDIT: Also, the throttle - it's the non-Pro throttle, correct?

Thrustmaster, CH, and Saitek are the current competitors in the flight stick market. Logitech used to have a bigger presence, but their current offering is an older model, essentially what the Thrustmaster 16k will do for you, except pots in the stick as opposed to the HALL sensors in the 16k.

Saitek and CH are your choices for pedals.

CH runs about $100 per component, street value. Saitek is a bit more expensive, and not necessarily higher quality. CH is damn near bulletproof.

Regarding what Sokol said, your best bet might be using the X-45 throttle and getting a new 16k stick. This will give you rudder input on the stick and a full throttle w/ buttons.

Sokol says the X-45 joystick plugs into your PC, so plug that and set it aside, don't use it. The throttle will plug into the X-45 stick, so keep that in use, and then plug in a new stick as a second input device. The X-45 itself should count for a single input device.

If you went with the CH stick, then you might consider a set of pedals to go with it. That means you would have 3 input devices (new pedals, new stick, old throttle).

I've read reviews of the 16k that say the buttons feel quite cheap - like they went all-out on the HALL and then slapped a stick on to them.

Are the buttons that bad?

Noticed your in Ohio and a quick scan of that states Microcenter has an ongoing great sale on the T.16000-M for $25.00.

http://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.aspx?Ntt=thrustmaster

Also the Thrustmaster Warthog stick is being sold separate from throttle for $200.00.I might pick one up this weekend as I already have an X55rhino.

Never held one, so I can't say. Sorry.

I can say that I was this close (hold fingers very close together) to getting a full CH set-up (Pro Throttle USB, Fighterstick USB, Pro Pedals USB) before I found a used X-52 at a yard sale for $20.

For $300, it is an awesome set-up. Using the CH software, it even functions as a single input device, IIRC, even though you are plugging in 3 different components. The only down-side, IMO, was the lack of a split throttle.

I even wrote a whole thread on it.

That $200 is a great price - but the stick doesn't do Z-rotation, does it? It also doesn't have a smaller throttle. Seems a little less useful by its-self.

But man... Wonder how long that sale is good?...

Do they make the Cougar HOTAS anymore? I remember when it came out in the Falcon 4.0 days. I wanted one sooooooo badly.

If you want something that has plenty of buttons and fiddly bits, is dead-solid accurate, and will last forever, then I suggest CH gear.

I have one T.16k stick as "spare, and yes, Tm save some 0,01$ in buttons, and in others than trigger dont use micro switch, use membranes like gamepade (PS3/XBox style controllers), so dont have much tactile feedback when pressed, but work OK. Is not a NO GO relative to others "all-in-1" joysticks.

You see these membranes in this picture of T.16k base:

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/JonathanH/RiseOfFlightSkins/t.16000_3.jpg



Are some Western Europe people making something new, with contact less sensors, metal gimbal, ball bearing... like MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedal, Slaw Device (rudder pedal), VKB rudder pedal/Mamba joysticks, Bauer rudder pedal and joystick base (gimbal) with cam system.
http://www.vkb-flightsimcontrols.com/zakaz/index_z.php
But the have small production, high prices and the two last is only available in Russia market.

Sokol1

Thanks for the suggestions everyone - I'm going to Columbus tomorrow, so I think I'll pick up that 16k in MicroCenter.

No, but you can find them for sale all over the net.

That $200 is a great price - but the stick doesn't do Z-rotation, does it? It also doesn't have a smaller throttle. Seems a little less useful by its-self.

But man... Wonder how long that sale is good?...

Do they make the Cougar HOTAS anymore? I remember when it came out in the Falcon 4.0 days. I wanted one sooooooo badly.[/quote]

Microcenter is amazing.You can buy at prices you get online and have it same day,its a win win.I tell everyone to go there as I want them to stay in business with remembering the CompUSA downfall.The one by my house had a Bestbuy right next door where you could walk in and buy PC parts for cheaper and slowly but surely the customers stopped going there and they shutdown.What type of management would think to do that is beyond me.

I wonder if Microcenter prices are temporary considering there is never an sale end date on them.They seem to support the online prices with walk in convenience.And no the Warthog has no rotation.