#3988190 - 07/30/14 06:23 AM
Flying without Aids
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 674
CatKnight
Member
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Member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 674
Cleveland, OH, US
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I didn't want to put this in the DiD thread since this isn't specifically part of the campaign.
I've been running a career during the campaign's time frame as an 'A' flier this week to try and get used to it.
My first mission as flight lead, I..uhm...got lost. We ended up RTBing.
Second mission I botched, because I hit Shift+W so many times my flight leader just led me straight home. Fine.
Third was a railway bombing run. No damage, but as I'm turning for home an aircraft lazily drifts in front of my Strutter's nose out of nowhere. I figure it's one of my flight. Nope. Eindecker. Why he thought it was okay to practice formation flying with me I'll never know.
My flight leader thought we should bomb another rail. I actually lost him on the way there in the clouds, but as I began to give up hope I noticed our top flight and followed them until I regained contact. On the way home he blipped his engine to let everyone catch up. I saw him pass behind my top wing...and then he must have done something I didn't see, for suddenly I was alone. Time to practice navigating home.
Then I used Lou's maps to navigate across half of Flanders and bomb the right aerodrome. I was turning for home when my observer opened up. New Eindecker. He also managed to get close to me, though perhaps not as much as the first guy.
This last mission I was supposed to bomb along the front lines. Just as we entered no man's land I noticed my leader jockeying for position. It took a few seconds, but I saw the faintest hint of yellow far below us. Then our Nieuport escorts dove past me headed down. I joined the fight.
It was easily the most fun I've had in a dogfight. Without the labels it was beautiful watching the planes maneuver. It took me a minute to actually get in the thick of things and chase an Eindecker around until it went down.
Not using the aids adds a lot of uncertainty to the sim, and at first I despised it. Now I don't think I could go back. Navigating with a map is it's own victory, as well as learning to watch your own back rather than relying on 'radar.'
(Of course, I might feel differently if I didn't have a rear gunner keeping me from being surprised TOO badly.)
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#3988251 - 07/30/14 11:37 AM
Re: Flying without Aids
[Re: DukeIronHand]
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,428
corsaire31
Member
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Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,428
Toulouse, France
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I have flown quite a bit in planes and helicopters and visibility, navigation, and situational awareness, don't seem that tough in real life so I don't consider the use of aids as a cheat. A computer screen can never replicate real life vision - at least not yet. This has been an ongoing debate in the flight sim community for many years ! I am on this side as well and this is why I dropped all aids but I keep the dots set at a reasonable distance.
Gigabyte Z87P-D3 - CPU I5 4670 Haswell @ 3.6Ghz - 8 Go Ram - GPU HD 7850 2Go OC - SSD Samsung 128Go - HD 2 x WD Black 1 To - 27" Iiyama Pro Lite - Logitech Extreme 3D Pro - Saitek Pro Flight Yoke - Rudder Pedals - Quadrant - Cessna Trim Wheel - Track IR 5 - Logitech G35 headset ... and a big coffee maker ! Flying in FSX/Air Hauler, Wings over Flanders Fields, Rise of Flight, IL2 1946 Hsfx, Condor soaring.
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#3988357 - 07/30/14 03:49 PM
Re: Flying without Aids
[Re: Hasse]
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,739
Olham
Barmy Baron from Berlin
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Barmy Baron from Berlin
Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,739
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Vision and awareness ARE better in real life, than in a sim - okay. But in real life you'd also be really dead, when getting shot. Each has it's pros and cons. I prefer a lesser vision... There's a certain masochistic enjoyment in flying under such difficult conditions. Isn't there, Hasse?
Vice-President of the BOC (Barmy OFFers Club) Member of the 'Albatros Aviators Club' - "We know how to die with Style!"
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#3988372 - 07/30/14 04:19 PM
Re: Flying without Aids
[Re: CatKnight]
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,879
RAF_Louvert
BOC President; Pilot Extraordinaire; Humble Man
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BOC President; Pilot Extraordinaire; Humble Man
Senior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,879
L'Etoile du Nord
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Or to paraphrase U2: "Surprise me, thrill me, shoot me, kill me.
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Three RFC Brass Hats were strolling down a street in London. Two walked into a bar, the third one ducked._________________________________________________________________________ Former Cold War Warrior, USAF Security Service 1974-1978, E-4, Morse Systems Intercept, England, Europe, and points above. "pippy-pahpah-pippy pah-pip-pah"
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#3988389 - 07/30/14 05:02 PM
Re: Flying without Aids
[Re: CatKnight]
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,398
KodiakJac
Member
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Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,398
USA
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I try to set up my aids in flight sims where I would probably see things IRL (around the 2 to 3 mile range in the pre-radar flight sims).
Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up! Can you say "JABO!"
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#3988748 - 07/31/14 07:49 AM
Re: Flying without Aids
[Re: KodiakJac]
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,532
DukeIronHand
Hotshot
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Hotshot
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,532
High over the Front
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I try to set up my aids in flight sims where I would probably see things IRL (around the 2 to 3 mile range in the pre-radar flight sims). Exactly!
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#3989197 - 08/01/14 04:53 AM
Re: Flying without Aids
[Re: CatKnight]
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,132
77_Scout
Member
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Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,132
Vancouver Island, Canada
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Not using the aids adds a lot of uncertainty to the sim This is exactly the attraction for me. I want to be surprised, I want to be frightened. With aids on you will never have those experiences (boring!). I am a bit skeptical about a WW1 plane being visible at 3 miles. A WW2 plane certainly was, but a WW1 plane is half the size of that. Contemporary accounts are rife with talk of how hard it was to see other planes. I always consider oily goggles, freezing conditions, and a 100 mph wind in my face before thinking situational awareness in an actual plane was way better than using a nice clear computer monitor in a cozy house.
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#3989204 - 08/01/14 05:46 AM
Re: Flying without Aids
[Re: 77_Scout]
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,398
KodiakJac
Member
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Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,398
USA
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Not using the aids adds a lot of uncertainty to the sim This is exactly the attraction for me. I want to be surprised, I want to be frightened. With aids on you will never have those experiences (boring!). I am a bit skeptical about a WW1 plane being visible at 3 miles. A WW2 plane certainly was, but a WW1 plane is half the size of that. Contemporary accounts are rife with talk of how hard it was to see other planes. I always consider oily goggles, freezing conditions, and a 100 mph wind in my face before thinking situational awareness in an actual plane was way better than using a nice clear computer monitor in a cozy house. How about when you want to sneak up on the AI? I agree a single WWI plane would probably be unseen at 3 miles. In the book "The Ace Factor" by Mike Spick he writes that 1-2 miles was the max distance for a single plane to usually be seen in WWI, but that formations could be seen up to 3-4 miles. But then that's just his opinion based on what he has read. If I'm in a 2-seater I often turn off aids as I like to be surprised like you. When I'm hunting I turn them on or I'd never find a fight!
Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up! Can you say "JABO!"
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#3989227 - 08/01/14 08:47 AM
Re: Flying without Aids
[Re: CatKnight]
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,428
corsaire31
Member
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Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,428
Toulouse, France
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It would be absolutely fair if the AI planes were not "seeing" you at longer distances. It is often that my flight leader turns to engage planes when I don't even see the dots which are set at 3000m in my game (and 3000m is only 1.6 nm)
Gigabyte Z87P-D3 - CPU I5 4670 Haswell @ 3.6Ghz - 8 Go Ram - GPU HD 7850 2Go OC - SSD Samsung 128Go - HD 2 x WD Black 1 To - 27" Iiyama Pro Lite - Logitech Extreme 3D Pro - Saitek Pro Flight Yoke - Rudder Pedals - Quadrant - Cessna Trim Wheel - Track IR 5 - Logitech G35 headset ... and a big coffee maker ! Flying in FSX/Air Hauler, Wings over Flanders Fields, Rise of Flight, IL2 1946 Hsfx, Condor soaring.
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#3989231 - 08/01/14 09:07 AM
Re: Flying without Aids
[Re: CatKnight]
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,739
Olham
Barmy Baron from Berlin
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Barmy Baron from Berlin
Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,739
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I checked that out on a clear day, with labels as "dots", set on 4000 Meter. If I remember right, the aircraft specs were visible a bit earlier than the dots appeared. So they are visible at 4000 m. But (!) the devs have "installed" layers of haze, depending on the weather situation. And you can have it, that the aircraft as well as the labels or dots won't be visible, before the enemy is MUCH closer! In the worst case, they are directly behind and above you, and you didn't see them coming.
I also found, that they don't seem to "see" us, when there is a haze or clouds. I could sneak up on E/A several times, and they only "saw" me, when I was at strike range.
Vice-President of the BOC (Barmy OFFers Club) Member of the 'Albatros Aviators Club' - "We know how to die with Style!"
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#3989340 - 08/01/14 03:07 PM
Re: Flying without Aids
[Re: CatKnight]
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29
Britisheh
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29
Kelowna, BC, Canada
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Hi there, From "Flying Fury" and a few others, weather certainly had an impact for the flyers, and the "Archie"/Flack gunners. Still, on the ground with aircraft at 20,000' and being spotted ( albeit binoculars helped) and McCudden spotting aircraft up to 2 miles away, I think the best way to even out the AI advantage is first, have clouds on MAX. Second, to use Trac IR. In addition, I would mount the TAC so half of it was showing, to the rear. In the sim, your rear guard may not let you know there's an issue, and having the TAC mounted so, forces one to scan ahead. The TAC would be set at 1 mile, which is reasonable given the games parameters. At the end of the day, it certainly is personal choice. For me, the above gave me a fighting chance, given the fact a few other things are thrown into the mix too Cheers, Britisheh
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