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#3987990 - 07/29/14 07:56 PM
Re: Pilots please check in on this for me
[Re: SkateZilla]
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,067
oldgrognard
Administrator
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Administrator
Lifer
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,067
USA
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that's where the flight aware track data would have been nice to have Probably never got high enough to register anyway. I'm thinking he was on initial climb out and hadn't even made pattern altitude.
Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
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#3987993 - 07/29/14 08:01 PM
Re: Pilots please check in on this for me
[Re: Top Gun]
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,503
Pooch
Hotshot
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Hotshot
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Posts: 5,503
Orlando, FL
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I can't help thinking about the irony of the guy being an Army Sergeant who had just gotten assigned to a base in Alaska. It isn't hard to imagine the conversation between him and his wife of nine years.
"It's going to be pretty damn cold up there," he says to her.
"Yes," she answers, "But at least you aren't going to Iraq of Afghanistan. You'll be cold but you'll be safe."
Geez, life can blow sometimes. And I sure wouldn't want to be the guy who has to live with this for the rest of his life. Don't be too quick to judge him if you've never been in the situation. I've had to declare an emergency once, when I was flying, and it's unpleasant.
And flight plans? I hardly ever filed one. Only on long trips. Hell, I wasn't flying over the middle of the Amazon. If I went down, lots of people were gonna see me.
"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia
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#3987995 - 07/29/14 08:04 PM
Re: Pilots please check in on this for me
[Re: PanzerMeyer]
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17,301
Nixer
Scaliwag and Survivor
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Scaliwag and Survivor
Veteran
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Living with the Trees
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Like OG said, no way enough info.
The guy knew enough to land on the much harder sand next to the water though, people not from the beach might not. Landing in the "soft" sand would have been as bad or worse then the water.
Looks like a couple of no win decision choices at this point for the pilot, and not much time to make them.
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#3987996 - 07/29/14 08:04 PM
Re: Pilots please check in on this for me
[Re: SkateZilla]
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,000
bonchie
Member
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Member
Joined: Jan 2009
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that's where the flight aware track data would have been nice to have You aren't going to get tracked on flight aware unless you are on flight following with a squawk and high enough to make radar contact. Even then, unless you are IFR, you probably won't show up.
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#3987998 - 07/29/14 08:04 PM
Re: Pilots please check in on this for me
[Re: Top Gun]
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master
Entil'zha
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Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
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Question regarding takeoff sequence:
The only time I flew on a GA plane was with my boss in the late 90s. He had a Piper Aztec. One thing that struck me was the amount of time between engine start and actually heading down the runway on the roll was quite extended as he went through his checklist. I remember wondering just how much gas was burned up sitting there.
Is it done to help the engine warm-up for flight? Could the odds of engine failure be increased if your time from start up to take off is too quick? Not to say that happened in this instance, more of a general question.
The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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#3987999 - 07/29/14 08:07 PM
Re: Pilots please check in on this for me
[Re: Jedi Master]
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,000
bonchie
Member
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Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,000
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Question regarding takeoff sequence:
The only time I flew on a GA plane was with my boss in the late 90s. He had a Piper Aztec. One thing that struck me was the amount of time between engine start and actually heading down the runway on the roll was quite extended as he went through his checklist. I remember wondering just how much gas was burned up sitting there.
Is it done to help the engine warm-up for flight? Could the odds of engine failure be increased if your time from start up to take off is too quick? Not to say that happened in this instance, more of a general question.
The Jedi Master I'm usually in the air within 10 minutes. Standard procedure is to do an engine run up before takeoff. That's where you are looking for any abnormalities, checking mags, carb heat, amp meter, gyro suction, etc.
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#3988003 - 07/29/14 08:14 PM
Re: Pilots please check in on this for me
[Re: Jedi Master]
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,603
malibu43
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,603
SoCal
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Question regarding takeoff sequence:
The only time I flew on a GA plane was with my boss in the late 90s. He had a Piper Aztec. One thing that struck me was the amount of time between engine start and actually heading down the runway on the roll was quite extended as he went through his checklist. I remember wondering just how much gas was burned up sitting there.
Is it done to help the engine warm-up for flight? Could the odds of engine failure be increased if your time from start up to take off is too quick? Not to say that happened in this instance, more of a general question.
The Jedi Master In a C172, there is an engine temperature gage that should be in the green band before you take off. However, in my experience, the time it takes to get the engine started, set radios, get the ATIS, request taxi, taxi and perform all the runup checks usually takes longer than the amount of time it takes the engine to warm up (in a C172SP), but that totally depends on the starting temp of the engine and the temperature outside. If it was a morning flight during a colder time of year, I would sometimes find myself sitting in the runup area with everything done, just waiting for the temp gage to get into the green band. Or in a few occasions, I had to wait for the needle to come up off the bottom of the gage before even starting my runup (advice given by my instructor). The amount of fuel used depends on aircraft type and other factors, but it was pretty trivial in a C172. The needle on the fuel flow gage spent most of the time near the 0.
Last edited by malibu43; 07/29/14 08:18 PM.
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#3988013 - 07/29/14 08:37 PM
Re: Pilots please check in on this for me
[Re: Top Gun]
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,067
oldgrognard
Administrator
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Administrator
Lifer
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,067
USA
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You are pretty low in the power settings for taxi and most of the checklist and run-up. In a small GA aircraft it is probably around 3 gallons per hour. So you will burn maybe a gallon or gallon and a half through the whole thing. I believe for most GA single engines you use 1 1/2 gallons for fuel planning. So it is pretty minor.
Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
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#3988015 - 07/29/14 08:44 PM
Re: Pilots please check in on this for me
[Re: Top Gun]
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 17,632
SkateZilla
Skate Zilla Graphics
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Skate Zilla Graphics
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Virginia Beach, VA
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Local news confirmed just now that the daughter has indeed passed away.
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#3988568 - 07/30/14 10:28 PM
Re: Pilots please check in on this for me
[Re: Top Gun]
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,790
Smokin_Hole
Member
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Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,790
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LINK Father killed, daughter injured when small plane crash-lands on Florida beach[quote]?...Unless his windshield was covered with oil and he couldn't see out the front, to me this is pretty inexcusable... Hope they take his license away... Someone's been playing too much Rise of Flight :-) You can't really judge if you weren't there. He may have not had the altitude or speed to choose. The surf may have been just as packed as the beach. Etc etc
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#3988686 - 07/31/14 02:30 AM
Re: Pilots please check in on this for me
[Re: Top Gun]
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,585
coasty
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,585
Asheville, NC, USA
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I don't mean to be a jerk, but maybe planes need horns for warning in such circumstances.
Have you seen the Arrow? WWW
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#3989030 - 07/31/14 07:24 PM
Re: Pilots please check in on this for me
[Re: coasty]
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,603
malibu43
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,603
SoCal
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I don't mean to be a jerk, but maybe planes need horns for warning in such circumstances.
That (IMHO) is a big part of what is going to grind our US economy to a screeching halt at some point. How much would it cost to retrofit every aircraft out there with horn? Actually - back up a step. How much time and money would it cost to draft and implement regulation to require a horn on certain aircraft? Then actually add horns. And then have them be inspected and replaced. That would all have some significant cost, that would impact flying hours, aircraft sold/rented, and ultimately jobs and excess income to pour back into the economy. What value does it actually add? How many deaths in the last 5 years could have been prevented had aircraft had horns? (get's on soap box) Our society/culture/government is becoming tolerant of less and less risk, regardless of how big the risk is and what the cost would be to effectively mitigate it. "Perfection at all costs" was a term I saw in a recent AOPA magazine, and I think that's the mentality that's taking over. "Perfection" is something that isn't achievable, and once you commit to achieving it at all costs... Hopefully it needs no further explanation. This applies to everything (food, medical devices, drugs, auto safety, etc...) not just aviation.
Sager NP8671 17.3" Notebook, i74720HQ (3.6GHz), GTX 970M (3.0GB), 8GB DDR3 RAM, 1TB 7200RPM HD, TrackIR 4, CH HOTAS and rudder pedals
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#3989150 - 08/01/14 01:11 AM
Re: Pilots please check in on this for me
[Re: malibu43]
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 10,304
ForSquirrels
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 10,304
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I don't mean to be a jerk, but maybe planes need horns for warning in such circumstances.
That (IMHO) is a big part of what is going to grind our US economy to a screeching halt at some point. How much would it cost to retrofit every aircraft out there with horn? Actually - back up a step. How much time and money would it cost to draft and implement regulation to require a horn on certain aircraft? Then actually add horns. And then have them be inspected and replaced. That would all have some significant cost, that would impact flying hours, aircraft sold/rented, and ultimately jobs and excess income to pour back into the economy. What value does it actually add? How many deaths in the last 5 years could have been prevented had aircraft had horns? (get's on soap box) Our society/culture/government is becoming tolerant of less and less risk, regardless of how big the risk is and what the cost would be to effectively mitigate it. "Perfection at all costs" was a term I saw in a recent AOPA magazine, and I think that's the mentality that's taking over. "Perfection" is something that isn't achievable, and once you commit to achieving it at all costs... Hopefully it needs no further explanation. This applies to everything (food, medical devices, drugs, auto safety, etc...) not just aviation. Just throw an air horn in the cockpit that you can hang out a window or something. If you're coming in quietly enough to get surprised you'd sure as hell hear an air horn.
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time and your government when it deserves it."
--Mark Twain
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.
XBL: fmdckr81
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#3989276 - 08/01/14 12:46 PM
Re: Pilots please check in on this for me
[Re: Top Gun]
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master
Entil'zha
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Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
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Yeah, I was just thinking "why not replace the normal prop on a RAT with the one the Stuka siren used?"
The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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#3989644 - 08/02/14 09:34 AM
Re: Pilots please check in on this for me
[Re: malibu43]
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,162
Turbo
Member
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Member
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,162
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I don't mean to be a jerk, but maybe planes need horns for warning in such circumstances.
That (IMHO) is a big part of what is going to grind our US economy to a screeching halt at some point. How much would it cost to retrofit every aircraft out there with horn? Actually - back up a step. How much time and money would it cost to draft and implement regulation to require a horn on certain aircraft? Then actually add horns. And then have them be inspected and replaced. That would all have some significant cost, that would impact flying hours, aircraft sold/rented, and ultimately jobs and excess income to pour back into the economy. What value does it actually add? How many deaths in the last 5 years could have been prevented had aircraft had horns? (get's on soap box) Our society/culture/government is becoming tolerant of less and less risk, regardless of how big the risk is and what the cost would be to effectively mitigate it. "Perfection at all costs" was a term I saw in a recent AOPA magazine, and I think that's the mentality that's taking over. "Perfection" is something that isn't achievable, and once you commit to achieving it at all costs... Hopefully it needs no further explanation. This applies to everything (food, medical devices, drugs, auto safety, etc...) not just aviation. Aren't you overreacting a wee bit, especially since there's no such action taking place? Anyway, I seem to vaguely recall an aircraft with a horn installed.
Celebrating 35+ years in the field of avionics....my how time flies!
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Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
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