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#3986549 - 07/27/14 02:03 AM SID / STAR and flight planning  
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jenrick Offline
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So in the recent months I've made a point of learning more about flight planning and instrument flying. One of the areas that I have run into that confuses me a bit is the use of SID's and STAR's. Are these normally assigned by ATC, or are they selected by the pilot and just filed as part of the flight plan? Obviously in FSX we have to do the planning ourselves, but I'm curious how it works in reality. Also from all the different plates I've seen of them, you basically have to just sit there and flip through them to find ones that are departing in the correct direction or arriving in the right direction. Is there an easier way to figure out which SID/STAR to use for a given route?

Thanks in advance!

-Jenrick

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#3986613 - 07/27/14 05:16 AM Re: SID / STAR and flight planning [Re: jenrick]  
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DetCord Offline
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How it works in reality? The FP's are issued by Ops and disseminated via Ops. They're typically the same flight plans that have been issued time and again. Nothing really changes,

As for me, I hand jam my own SID's and STAR's depending upon the addon.


Ex-pat Kiwi currently serving in the U.S. Army
#3986673 - 07/27/14 01:33 PM Re: SID / STAR and flight planning [Re: jenrick]  
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Deacon211 Offline
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Well, in real life you can file what you like, but you will get what you get from ATC.

Having said that, as Det said, there will be fairly standard routes of flight, including SIDS and STARs that will be common for a city pairing.

Often, but not always, not every SID, STAR will be available for every runway in use. For instance, Vegas will use a particular SID for east/west take offs but will switch to another for the less frequent north/south ops. Sometimes, there might be SIDs/STARs that are really designed for a specific purpose. If JFK is running arrivals up the coast, as a completely random example, perhaps Philly will choose an arrival that hooks people around to the west of the field rather than the east.

But in absence of all these interactions and agreements in FSX, you can just pick whichever procedures suit you. Functionally, it will make no difference and is as reasonable a solution as any. Generally, you can pick whichever procedure is suitable for your route of flight. Sometimes there won't be one. But that's entirely realistic as there may be a restricted area you must avoid, busy airspace that you need to deconflict, etc.

It's odd to think that in the air you don't just go directly to your destination once airborne, but you often don't. RNAV has improved that somewhat. But there are still vast eddies in the sky that channel the flow of traffic like rocks in a stream.

Deacon

#3986906 - 07/27/14 11:10 PM Re: SID / STAR and flight planning [Re: jenrick]  
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jenrick Offline
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Okay, what everyone has responded makes sense. You can ask for it, buy ATC my give you something different.

Is there anywhere you can go find what the common routings are? Short of just printing out all the approach plates and playing connect the dots, I'm not seeing a way to easily figure out what SID/STAR to use for a given route.

-Jenrick

#3987346 - 07/28/14 07:12 PM Re: SID / STAR and flight planning [Re: jenrick]  
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semmern Offline
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Originally Posted By: jenrick
Okay, what everyone has responded makes sense. You can ask for it, buy ATC my give you something different.

Is there anywhere you can go find what the common routings are? Short of just printing out all the approach plates and playing connect the dots, I'm not seeing a way to easily figure out what SID/STAR to use for a given route.

-Jenrick


In FSX you can just use a SID and a STAR that will give you the most direct routing. In real life, like others have said, it depends on the runway in use, other traffic, etc.


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#3987368 - 07/28/14 07:47 PM Re: SID / STAR and flight planning [Re: jenrick]  
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jenrick Offline
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Right I get that I get to choose. My question is how do I do that short of just printing out all the different SID's/STAR's and manually putting them on a map to figure out which one goes where?

For example the KAUS to KIAH feeder route has 3 SIDs leaving KAUS and 18 STARs. Going back the other way is just as bad. How do I figure out which SID and which STAR to use out all the possible ones? Do I really just look at every plate to find one that has me going in the right direction? I guess I'm assuming that there is some coding or sorting in the names or something that I'm just not getting that would help with this?

-Jenrick

#3987387 - 07/28/14 08:29 PM Re: SID / STAR and flight planning [Re: jenrick]  
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NineLives Offline
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A lot of this is down to which airline you are flying for as they have "company routes" that include SIDS and STARS so normally you would enter a standard company route and then alter the SID or STAR if you wish or if instructed by ATC together with an alternative route in the event of emergency or bad weather etc.

I fly the Aerosoft AEX and just choose the SID/STAR from the short list it provides in the flight computer and by experiment I find the ones that work best for my particular route and note it down for future as some work better than others.

For the waypoints I cheat! I create the flight in FSX first and note the waypoints then set up a flight in AEX and input some of the waypoints from the middle and then join these up with the SIDS and STARS. It's not right of course but it works perfectly well for a simulation and avoids the boring straight line flight.

#3987412 - 07/28/14 09:39 PM Re: SID / STAR and flight planning [Re: jenrick]  
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Paul Rix Offline
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Jenrick, I fly into and out of KAUS frequently (our airplanes are based there). For Arrivals into Austin there are three that are frequently given. If you are coming in from the North you will get the BLEWE3, from the West you will get the KALLA3 and from the East you will most likely get the WLEEE 2 RNAV arrival. KAUS only has a handful of SIDs and STARs but KIAH is a different story as you mentioned. Usually in such cases I will flip through the SIDs and pick one based on the direction I want to head, but ultimately ATC will assign you the procedure that best fits their gameplan. The same goes for the STARs too.


Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people.
Carl Sagan
#3987455 - 07/28/14 11:39 PM Re: SID / STAR and flight planning [Re: jenrick]  
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Deacon211 Offline
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Have you looked at Skyvector.com?

It has all the US procedures. Truly, the SID you get will generally be the one that takes you in the direction of travel. If there are several in the direction of travel that's because there is some flow that they are trying to achieve for some case which will not apply in FSX. Remember as well that currently there are a lot of RNAV SIDs and STARs and non-RNAV ones for those aircraft not equipped with RNAV.

Functionally, as I said, just pick something appropriate for your flight. In the airlines, dispatchers will do all the filing and indeed they will have very common "canned" routes. But, if you are filing yourself, you will likely spread out the chart and do it the old fashioned way. If you are talking about your home field, you may know the commonly used procedures. If you are going into a infrequently used (by you) field, you roll the dice and have the other plates handy for when ATC changes it on you.

#3987519 - 07/29/14 01:32 AM Re: SID / STAR and flight planning [Re: jenrick]  
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BeachAV8R Offline
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You can also use this tool from FlightAware that will give you the most recently/frequently filed and given routes between two airports. That doesn't necessarily mean you would get those routes because there are any number of reasons that might give you other STARS/SIDS including weather, airspace restrictions, directions of departures from satellite airports, and even noise abatement rules.

Here is a link to the tool: LINK

Also keep in mind that you need to read the notes for each SID/STAR because some are solely for turbojets, some for turboprops, and some for pistons. Also you have to have the equipment to fly the STAR/SID (RNP, RNAV, etc..).. And finally, as if all that isn't fun enough, you need to make sure you can meet the climb gradient, and/or speed restrictions. For instance, we get issued the RNAV arrivals into Charlotte, but we have to let them know that we can't technically meet the 280 knot speed requirement (red line in the Citation V is 276)...

BeachAV8R

* Or file MEDEVAC and just ask for direct.. duck




#3987644 - 07/29/14 10:01 AM Re: SID / STAR and flight planning [Re: jenrick]  
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semmern Offline
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SIDs are mostly named for the navaid or 5-letter RNAV waypoint at which they end, so by looking at a chart with navaids (like others have said, www.skyvector.com is a very good site to use), you can figure out from there in which direction the SID will take you.


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#3988141 - 07/30/14 02:31 AM Re: SID / STAR and flight planning [Re: jenrick]  
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jenrick Offline
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Okay got it now. Thanks for the tips on the different sites to check routes, and well as how to read the names that helps a bunch.

-Jenrick


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