Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
#3981621 - 07/16/14 10:35 AM Re: FW 190 D-9 Dora Due August [Re: Murphy]  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 875
Fridge Offline
Member
Fridge  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 875
Fredericton, NB, Canada
Originally Posted By: Murphy
Boom and Zoom?

Wouldn't that be a, 'dog fight'?


You could almost describe that as a vertical turn fight but that's not quite true. I would still consider BnZ a dog fight.


Fridge
----------
Things which do you no good in aviation:
1) Altitude above you;
2) Runway behind you;
3) Fuel in the truck;
4) The airspeed you don't have.
#3982548 - 07/18/14 01:55 AM Re: FW 190 D-9 Dora Due August [Re: Murphy]  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,147
Gambit21 Offline
Member
Gambit21  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,147
Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted By: Murphy
Boom and Zoom?

Wouldn't that be a, 'dog fight'?




Yes

#3982639 - 07/18/14 10:53 AM Re: FW 190 D-9 Dora Due August [Re: Taxman]  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 19,381
Ajay Offline
newbie
Ajay  Offline
newbie
Veteran

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 19,381
Brisbane OZ
Boom n Zoom..dog fight ? i would say it's more a hit and run myself. Wouldn't matter what plane either. You could bnz a p51 D in a clapped out old 190 A2 and retain the energy while old mate is wondering what hit him. Dogfight and bnz are two different things..more like a suprise attack verses a slug/skill match of sorts.


My il2 page
Seelowe Campaign
Cliffs of Dover page
CloD
My Models
Tanks/Planes/Ships


#3982658 - 07/18/14 12:25 PM Re: FW 190 D-9 Dora Due August [Re: Taxman]  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 875
Fridge Offline
Member
Fridge  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 875
Fredericton, NB, Canada
Quote:
a suprise attack verses a slug/skill match of sorts


Here's the thing: boom and zoom is a type of vertical dog fight. A horizontal turning fight, one or two circle is no different, just in it's orientation and the application of the specific advantages one airframe has over the other. Same as in a vertical fight.

Getting into a horizontal turn fight, <good turning airframe> versus <bad turning airframe> is a bad idea for the <bad turning airframe> and skill is (probably) not going to save you. Getting into a vertical 'turn' fight, <good BnZ airframe> versus <bad BnZ airframe> is a bad idea for the <bad BnZ airframe> and skill (probably) is not going to save you.

Getting jumped, on the other hand, is not a Boom and Zoom fight. It's getting jumped. Some airframes have characteristics that give it a Boom and Zoom advantage over another, but change the match-up and that advantage goes away and the fight has to change because of it. Getting jumped by a hurricane while you are in a 109 is not going to stay a Boom and Zoom fight as the Hurricane does not have the necessary advantages it needs; it can't keep the fight vertical. Swap that around and get jumped by a P-51 while you are in a 109 and depending on the model of 109, the fight can, maybe, stay in the vertical.

I would argue that although it may fit the words, someone zooming in on you from a serious height advantage is not a Boom and Zoom fight but just being bounced. If you turn smartly against such an attacker, you can draw them down and out of their energy advantaged position into one of skill and airframe capabilities.

Maybe it's just my definition of Boom and Zoom versus that of someone else. Of course, I have read other texts that refuse the label of Boom and Zoom and prefer an energy fight. So maybe we are talking apples/oranges.


Fridge
----------
Things which do you no good in aviation:
1) Altitude above you;
2) Runway behind you;
3) Fuel in the truck;
4) The airspeed you don't have.
#3982661 - 07/18/14 12:52 PM Re: FW 190 D-9 Dora Due August [Re: Taxman]  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 19,381
Ajay Offline
newbie
Ajay  Offline
newbie
Veteran

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 19,381
Brisbane OZ
cool..i was hoping for interesting, and your comment is smile

To me a bnz is a bounce, so yes, correct, but it isn't a dog fight. Even if your 'customer' is aware and breaks as you pull into the firing position, unless the bouncee has absolute major advantage in either airframe and skill then you simply z again and retain the height and thus energy to re-engage at will. Like a shark circling it's prey, you can choose to either disengage or continue with the much greater height/energy advantage. Unless you are in a lysander or stork for instance then the comparative difference in fighters of the same period at such a height advantage rules out the many hundreds and at least a thousand feet below the bouncee will be when you zoom again.

What i am on about is the pure/standard dogfight..the one on one at level pegging, similar heights, eyeing each other up then engaging is a huge difference to a bnz or bounce. If one bnz's then misses and decides to turn it into a horizontal then they are throwing away a huge advantage in speed regardless if the the lower plane can climb or turn quicker, it cannot climb quicker from a level flight breakaway down at 300 plus mph than say a fighter spewing down on it at 450 plus mph and hope to catch it...unless the bouncer is incompetent or throws away his advantage of speed.

Getting drawn down into a turn/dog fight when you don't need to just go against the rules when you have the superior height advantage wink


My il2 page
Seelowe Campaign
Cliffs of Dover page
CloD
My Models
Tanks/Planes/Ships


#3983350 - 07/20/14 02:25 AM Re: FW 190 D-9 Dora Due August [Re: Ajay]  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,147
Gambit21 Offline
Member
Gambit21  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,147
Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted By: Ajay
Boom n Zoom..dog fight ? i would say it's more a hit and run myself. Wouldn't matter what plane either. You could bnz a p51 D in a clapped out old 190 A2 and retain the energy while old mate is wondering what hit him. Dogfight and bnz are two different things..more like a suprise attack verses a slug/skill match of sorts.


In my opinion...
If you keep coming back yes it's still a dogfight.
If you make one pass and keep going, then no because you didn't say and fight.
Just because you're using energy tactics doesn't mean you're not dog fighting - the term makes
no allowances for that unless you try and change the original meaning of the word.

Good to see you around still smile

#3983374 - 07/20/14 03:38 AM Re: FW 190 D-9 Dora Due August [Re: Gambit21]  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 19,381
Ajay Offline
newbie
Ajay  Offline
newbie
Veteran

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 19,381
Brisbane OZ
Originally Posted By: Gambit21
Originally Posted By: Ajay
Boom n Zoom..dog fight ? i would say it's more a hit and run myself. Wouldn't matter what plane either. You could bnz a p51 D in a clapped out old 190 A2 and retain the energy while old mate is wondering what hit him. Dogfight and bnz are two different things..more like a suprise attack verses a slug/skill match of sorts.


In my opinion...
If you keep coming back yes it's still a dogfight.
If you make one pass and keep going, then no because you didn't say and fight.
Just because you're using energy tactics doesn't mean you're not dog fighting - the term makes
no allowances for that unless you try and change the original meaning of the word.

Good to see you around still smile


Hey Gambit, good to see you mate smile

I am probably leaning more on my tactics i suppose which i don't consider a dogfight as i can end up on the wrong side of the guns too easily. I prefer patience and height and wearing them down over going in all fists of fury and whites of the eyes close up fighting to the death biggrin


My il2 page
Seelowe Campaign
Cliffs of Dover page
CloD
My Models
Tanks/Planes/Ships


#3985677 - 07/24/14 11:25 PM Re: FW 190 D-9 Dora Due August [Re: Taxman]  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,147
Gambit21 Offline
Member
Gambit21  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,147
Pacific Northwest
I hear ya.
I fly like that too sometimes - just depends on which bird I'm in and if I'm outnumbered or not.

I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the Dora - will my first DCS purchase. So I gather I just download the free DCS world
first, and then Dora when it's available and I'll be set. At least that's my understanding. I'll be flying over Crimea or Nevada
for now which isn't too exciting, but I'm choosing to have faith that the theater as a whole will be delivered.
Has the Nevada map been released yet? I haven't been keeping track of DCS.

#3985726 - 07/25/14 01:47 AM Re: FW 190 D-9 Dora Due August [Re: Gambit21]  
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 490
NineLine Offline
ED Community Manager
NineLine  Offline
ED Community Manager
Member

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 490
BC, Canada
Yup, and if you download DCS World now, you can try the TF-51D for free smile

Nevada is due out later on this year sometime after 2.0.0 is released.

Originally Posted By: Gambit21
I hear ya.
I fly like that too sometimes - just depends on which bird I'm in and if I'm outnumbered or not.

I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the Dora - will my first DCS purchase. So I gather I just download the free DCS world
first, and then Dora when it's available and I'll be set. At least that's my understanding. I'll be flying over Crimea or Nevada
for now which isn't too exciting, but I'm choosing to have faith that the theater as a whole will be delivered.
Has the Nevada map been released yet? I haven't been keeping track of DCS.

#3985801 - 07/25/14 05:38 AM Re: FW 190 D-9 Dora Due August [Re: Taxman]  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,147
Gambit21 Offline
Member
Gambit21  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,147
Pacific Northwest
Thank you. smile

#3986918 - 07/27/14 11:35 PM Re: FW 190 D-9 Dora Due August [Re: Taxman]  
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,503
Pooch Offline
Hotshot
Pooch  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,503
Orlando, FL
Just to make something clearer, the A model Focke-Wulfs were not designed as fighter bombers. Someone reading that might misunderstand. It was designed to counter the Spitfire, which it did quite well until the Mark 9 Spit showed up and ruined its party.


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

#3987269 - 07/28/14 04:59 PM Re: FW 190 D-9 Dora Due August [Re: Taxman]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,743
HeinKill Offline
Senior Member
HeinKill  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,743
Cloud based
Thass what I thort. Thanks - I'll be interested to see how it does on the Eastern Front anyway...

And hanging out for a DCS Dora!

H


[Linked Image]
#3990839 - 08/05/14 12:16 AM Re: FW 190 D-9 Dora Due August [Re: Taxman]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,743
HeinKill Offline
Senior Member
HeinKill  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,743
Cloud based
Hi

Tis August! What date is the release, anyone?

H


[Linked Image]
#3990847 - 08/05/14 12:39 AM Re: FW 190 D-9 Dora Due August [Re: Taxman]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,042
cichlidfan Offline
Member
cichlidfan  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,042
Woodbridge, VA, USA
Tomorrow.


ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1
#3990976 - 08/05/14 09:59 AM Re: FW 190 D-9 Dora Due August [Re: Taxman]  
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 570
F19_CoNa Offline
sim junkie
F19_CoNa  Offline
sim junkie
Member

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 570
Kallinge, Sweden
The DCS Fw 190 D-9 installer is delayed at 1-2 days by technical reasons. frown
At least, it's not twoweeks


..and lead us not into temptation......I'll find it myself.
#3990983 - 08/05/14 10:23 AM Re: FW 190 D-9 Dora Due August [Re: Taxman]  
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,180
scrim Offline
Member
scrim  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,180
Why am I not surprised by this any longer in DCS?

#3990986 - 08/05/14 10:36 AM Re: FW 190 D-9 Dora Due August [Re: Taxman]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,771
Para_Bellum Offline
Oberkriegkaboomführer
Para_Bellum  Offline
Oberkriegkaboomführer
Hotshot

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,771
Germany
Oh well, at least we'll get it this week.

yep


"...late afternoon the Air Tasking Order came in [and] we found the A-10 part and we said, "We are going where!? We are doing what!?"

Capt. Todd Sheehy, Hog pilot, on receiving orders during Operation Desert Storm

#3990987 - 08/05/14 10:38 AM Re: FW 190 D-9 Dora Due August [Re: Taxman]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 289
paf_eaf310 Offline
Member
paf_eaf310  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 289
Maybe they try to get the backer-page working before?

#3990993 - 08/05/14 11:05 AM Re: FW 190 D-9 Dora Due August [Re: Taxman]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,764
Weaponz248 Offline
Hail To The King Baby!!
Weaponz248  Offline
Hail To The King Baby!!
Senior Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,764
Statesboro GA USA
Well it could be worse......Also you can still get it for 39.99 USD instead of 49.99 USD, So there's that.


XBOX Live Tag/Steam/PSN: Weaponz248

#3991006 - 08/05/14 12:09 PM Re: FW 190 D-9 Dora Due August [Re: Taxman]  
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,180
scrim Offline
Member
scrim  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,180
Well, no. For a bunch of people it should've been 0 instead of 39.99, but because they still haven't bothered setting up the backers' page after well over a month, and aren't saying when, most people have ended up paying them even more money, because who wants to wait indefinitely for the backers' page to turn up? I'm not the least happy about this, since I'm quite keen to actually get something (very little) out of my pledge, as I'm not sure at all that I can count on any WW2 modules that I can get for the money I pledged ever actually being released.

Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Force10, RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
Carnival Cruise Ship Fire....... Again
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:58 PM
Baltimore Bridge Collapse
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:51 PM
The Oldest WWII Veterans
by F4UDash4. 03/24/24 09:21 PM
They got fired after this.
by Wigean. 03/20/24 08:19 PM
Grown ups joke time
by NoFlyBoy. 03/18/24 10:34 PM
Anyone Heard from Nimits?
by F4UDash4. 03/18/24 10:01 PM
RIP Gemini/Apollo astronaut Tom Stafford
by semmern. 03/18/24 02:14 PM
10 years after 3/8/2014
by NoFlyBoy. 03/17/24 10:25 AM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0