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#3985252 - 07/24/14 08:08 AM Is There a Quicker Way to Determine Friendly or Enemy?  
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Jetguy06 Offline
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Jetguy06  Offline
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Plaquemine, La, US
I'm flying one of the offline campaigns, and I'm flying a Barcap. I'm in the Number Two slot (trying to get experience before I jump to lead), and we're directed attack to a flight of MiG-29's. There are friendlies nearby, and I don't want to commit fratricide, so I soft lock a contact and call AWACS for a declare. Problem is, by the time I get a response, and get my AMRAAMs to bear on him, he's locked me up, fired a missile or two, and I'm a ball of flame, even when I try to evade. Is there a quicker way to determine if the contact is friendly or enemy?

I know that in RWS mode I can hard lock the contact by double-tapping TMS Up Short, but my FCR always says Wait where the aircraft type should be. Are there any other ways? Anything quicker? Thanks guys!!


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#3985272 - 07/24/14 10:15 AM Re: Is There a Quicker Way to Determine Friendly or Enemy? [Re: Jetguy06]  
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Para_Bellum Offline
Oberkriegkaboomführer
Para_Bellum  Offline
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Germany
How long does it take for an AWACS call, 5-10 seconds? This amount of time shouldn't be much of a problem in a BVR fight. I usually spot targets on radar well before I'm in range to launch an AMRAAM. If your radio is swamped with calls from other aircraft you might try switching off all frequencies besides flight.

What also might help is trying to improve your situational awareness. Try to understand what's happening around you. If e.g. AWACSs tells you to engage a pair of Mig-29s bearing down on you at 12 o'clock, you get Mig-29 radar signals right ahead on your RWR and the only radar contacts are a pair of blips moving FAST towards you, chances are high they're bad guys. wink

The target identification via radar takes quite a long time, an AWACS call should always be a lot quicker.


"...late afternoon the Air Tasking Order came in [and] we found the A-10 part and we said, "We are going where!? We are doing what!?"

Capt. Todd Sheehy, Hog pilot, on receiving orders during Operation Desert Storm

#3985294 - 07/24/14 12:01 PM Re: Is There a Quicker Way to Determine Friendly or Enemy? [Re: Jetguy06]  
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theOden Offline
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theOden  Offline
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You shouldn't need to lock them up, just put the radar cursor on the contact and call declare.
(don't worry if the cursor drift off until AWACS responds).
Haven't flown for a while but is eager to go bullseye calculating as with Frederf's last link the other day but I'll double check this next time I fly.

#3985310 - 07/24/14 12:45 PM Re: Is There a Quicker Way to Determine Friendly or Enemy? [Re: Jetguy06]  
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sorcer3r Offline
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sorcer3r  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jetguy06
I'm flying one of the offline campaigns, and I'm flying a Barcap. I'm in the Number Two slot (trying to get experience before I jump to lead), and we're directed attack to a flight of MiG-29's. There are friendlies nearby, and I don't want to commit fratricide, so I soft lock a contact and call AWACS for a declare. Problem is, by the time I get a response, and get my AMRAAMs to bear on him, he's locked me up, fired a missile or two, and I'm a ball of flame, even when I try to evade. Is there a quicker way to determine if the contact is friendly or enemy?


You have always to get the target declared by awacs.
And if there are friendlies in this area then Fox 3 is not a good idea.

#3985478 - 07/24/14 05:03 PM Re: Is There a Quicker Way to Determine Friendly or Enemy? [Re: Jetguy06]  
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Triple111 Offline
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Triple111  Offline
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Aside from the other suggestions, installing a TGP on your plane helps ID in close fights when you don't necessarily want to wait for AWACS.

#3985518 - 07/24/14 06:08 PM Re: Is There a Quicker Way to Determine Friendly or Enemy? [Re: Jetguy06]  
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SacaSoh Offline
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SacaSoh  Offline
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Hueland
Usually I just go Ukrainian separatist style.

#3985662 - 07/24/14 10:38 PM Re: Is There a Quicker Way to Determine Friendly or Enemy? [Re: Jetguy06]  
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- Ice Offline
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- Ice  Offline
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Philippines / North East UK
Turn on "subtitles" so you can see the AWACS replies even before the audio for it comes on. Sorry, been months since I played so I can't remember the proper term for this option.


- Ice
#3989505 - 08/01/14 09:52 PM Re: Is There a Quicker Way to Determine Friendly or Enemy? [Re: Jetguy06]  
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jack72 Offline
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jack72  Offline
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Toronto
I Google him...or go on facebook.


- I know those voices in my head are not real, but man they have some good ideas.

- I never killed anyone, but I have read a large number of obituaries with great satisfaction.

- If I cannot make it to your funeral, I will certainly send a message indicating my approval.

- Most of my Friends are Imaginary

- Time is money, so I decided to sell my watch.
#3990171 - 08/03/14 07:07 PM Re: Is There a Quicker Way to Determine Friendly or Enemy? [Re: Jetguy06]  
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Weaponz248 Offline
Hail To The King Baby!!
Weaponz248  Offline
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Posts: 2,764
Statesboro GA USA
Haven't flown Falcon in awhile however I seem to remember that if you lock a friendly up they say buddy spike or something...


XBOX Live Tag/Steam/PSN: Weaponz248

#3990451 - 08/04/14 06:54 AM Re: Is There a Quicker Way to Determine Friendly or Enemy? [Re: Jetguy06]  
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Frederf Offline
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They will tend to do that maybe, if they have an RWR. I wonder if the raygun call (in real life would include a position) would prompt a friendly without RWR to reply "buddy spike." But they have to be on the right channel and listening and able to respond. It's not a good single source of verification.

In real life there's such a thing as the "ID matrix" which describes the combination of contributing factors to lead to an actionable (shooting) ID. AWACs, origin criteria, RWR, VID, NCTR, raygun, etc. combine to form a good picture. You want to use as many as practical.

Even if you have sorted everyone downrange into good guys and bad guys it's perfectly possible to have trouble shooting without risking a good guy due to geometry. In that case you want to extend and/or get some lateral room for a better angle. Once the missile leaves the rail you can't take it back. It just feels better to have 5 clean kills than 100 with 1 avoidable frat.

In my experience if you don't have a BVR fight sorted by 20 miles, it's time to turn tail. The odds of converting to a good shooting situation inside that range are very low and often end up with hasty shots or getting wrecked. You want to build a good picture out to 40nm-80nm in your head very early on station and keep it there. Ideally you want to know what and who everyone is crossing into your 30-40nm bubble. Another rule of thumb is the threats on RWR would never occupy more than 90 deg of angle.


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