I am wondering what the best way to attack these tanks is. I have tried GUN/Rocket run but those don't work to well. Is there a way I can bomb all six of them in one run? I would be using 6x GBU-12 (laserguided)

CBU-97s. Laser guided won't work in one run, you have to make one run for each bomb.

You won't be able to drop a series of LGBs on different targets in one run since the laser can only be pointed at one target at a time. And moving the laser quickly from target to target won't cut it since the corrections would be too much for falling bombs to handle. Most of your bombs will be almost to the ground when the first bomb makes impact.

GBU-38s on the other hand are GPS guided and can be dropped on different targets in the same run. It involves creating a mark point on each tank, then cycling through the mark points as you pass over them, and releasing a bomb at each mark point. It can be tricky at first. The first few time you try it, you'll have to prep the mark points from far out to get it all done in time. Once you get good at it, it'll be a breeze.

The drawback is that you can only fit one GBU-38 per hardpoint (as opposed to the MER-3 triple ejector racks you can have for GBU-12s), and therefore cannot carry as much ordinance overall.

Oh, and this only works if the tanks are stationary since GBU-38s guide to the SPI at the time of release, and cannot be updated after release.

Here's a video:



CBU-97 and CBU-105 is definitely more economical than dropping a train of GBU-38s though. If the targets are MBTs, you probably won't kill all of them with one CBU, but you'll definitely kill more than the single GBU-38 would have - and for the same amount of hardpoint real estate.

Now if you really want to get fancy, you could try killing that line of tanks with a train of MK82s. I've done this a few times and it's reasonably effective if their spacing is uniform. For that, I would set the MK82 profile to CCRP, ripple-singe, interval of [whatever the distance between the tanks are], and IIRC, set the aiming point to the middle of the convoy, and then overly the convoy lengthwise. Problem with this is, to get any degree of accuracy, you have to be pretty low - well within the tank's MG range, but not so low that your bombs damage the aircraft.

I would do the mk82 run described above, but with cbu 97s. Blanket the convoy with skeets and watch all 6 vaporize in one pass.

You use wingman. Front and back tank gets a Mav. Rest gets 30MM.

anyone know what the probability of kill is against MBTs with CBU-97/CBU-105s? If I'm not mistaken, the pKill is significantly lower than it is with softer skin vehicles. I may have to run some tests later on. That would be good to know.

I'd use the cannon.

I tried that. The actual line is about 9 BMPs, they just rip me to shreds.

Pretty low.
Others have done this test and I've tried it also, several threads on ED Forums about it.
Place a square of tanks, like 5x5 or 10x10 in Mission Editor and load up with 97's or 105's and no wind. With a dead center shot you might get 4 kills out of 25 tanks with a single drop. Can't remember what the burst altitude was set to but after playing with it the 4 kills was about the best.

A well known issue of DCS: Super AI, capable of hitting you at even thousands of feet with BMP autocannons.


The JDAM thing is a very good tactic to know, but I don't think it would be very suitable for this scenario, as the AI by default starts moving the moment some shooting starts nearby. The first 4-5 tanks would most likely get hit, but I think there's a serious risk that the remainders would get far away before getting hit.

I'd drop 2 CBU-97/105. Then use the GAU.

Keep in mind that using the 30mm gun doesn't mean you have to overfly the enemy at 500 ft.

A good way of practicing with the GAU is attacking ZSU-23/4s.

Do you know offhand how many submunitions there are there are in a 97/105? I guess what I'm wondering is, what the probability is of any given submunition defeating the tank given a hit. I'm guessing pretty low too.



I use the cannon as a last resort against MBTs. the 30mm works fairly consistently against the back armour, but you have to get in way too close to focus that fire, and you end up with a face full of 12.7mm. I save my 30mm for softer targets that can be killed easily with a quick burst form a distance.

For me, if I think i'm going up against a lot of MBTs, it's mavericks first, LGBs second, then CBU-97/105. Sometimes, if weight allows, MER-3's of MK82s instead of CBUs.

What about something like this?



Anyway I can do something similar to this?

No, that is a runway attack

problem with this is that it takes a lot of hits the further away I am.

Encyclopedia says it's 4 sub munitions with 10 skeets per sub.

I just did it again for S&G and got 5 kills with 2 CBU105's dropped. So 80 skeets killed 5 T-55 tanks.

hell yes.

^^

@Chris2525 What is the loadout for that one? That seems like a lot of bombs.

ah, good to know. Thanks.

It is nearly impossible to kill them all (9 BMPs) plus 2 MANPADS and 3 AAA and ~2SAMs nearby.



The fact that my AI wingman is not even acknowledging my order is annoying, all he does it follow me

It is a lot of bombs. 23 to be exact.



Unfortunatley you can only ripple the bombs on pylons 3,4,5,7,8,9, for a maximum of 18. This train's profile was:

CCRP
Rip Prs
Rip Qty - 18
Rip interval - 10ft

Yeah, the the Manpads, SAMs and AAA would easily eat up all your mavericks. But once they're out of the picture, you should certainly be able to take out 9 BMPs with your remianing ordinace. CBU-97/105 work well against BMPs if I'm not mistaken.

On a given sortie against a mix of lightly armoured vehicles and soft skinned vehicles, provided you're carrying maximum ordinance and don't get shot down, you should easily be returning to base with 30+ kills under your belt if you use your weapons wisely.

Just make sure you use your standoff weapons (i.e. mavericks) for things that pose a threat to you such as SAMs and AAA first. Then you can go about killing the less threatening targets at your leisure. Just make sure you ration weapons accordingly based on the types of targets and the threats they pose. I.E. don't use up your LGBs on trucks and jeeps, leaving you with only 30mm to use on BMPs (which also have 30mm's, hint hint). A handful of BMPs has you and your 30mm outgunned severely. Combined, they have your rate of fire matched, but more importantly their advantage is that they've got multiple gunners independently trying to hit a single target, and you're one A-10 trying to hit multiple targets. That's a guaranteed lose.

What about this.

1. Load up on MAVs

2. Kill all anti air

3. RTB

4. Loads bombs

5. Bomb tanks

The base is about 20 min from the AO

You should be able to carry plenty of ordinance to kill all of them in one sortie, and then some.
If we're talking about a total of:

-9 BMPs (they're all BMPs, right? Not tanks like T72s or T80s? It makes a big difference regarding what weapons to bring)
-2 SAMs
-2 Manpads
-3 AAA

then all you should need (in order of use) is:

-6 Mavericks - Use against SAMs first, then Manpads, then use remaining two for two of the AAA
-6 GBU-12 - Use first GBU to kill the remaining AAA, then save the rest to clean up surviving BMPs
-2 CBU-97/105 - Two of these should easily kill most, if not all of the BMPs (provided they all fit into the footprints of two CBUs). Use leftover GBUs to kill any that survive the CBUs.
-If you run out of everything and still have a BMP or two left, then resort to 30mm.

Like I said, the CBUs don't work well against tanks, but they work very well against lightly armored vehicles like BMPs. BMPs may look like tanks, but they're far from it. They have only a fraction of the armour that a tank does.

This quite accurately represents how they are set up.



So far I have had some success using GBU-12s and flying at 13000. But I run out of Bombs

Thanks for the diagram. Are you sure the CBU-97/105s will kill the BMP. is their blast radius +30 meters?

Each CBU-97/105 deploys 40 sensor-fuzed submunitions called skeets. Depending on the CBU settings each weapon covers an area of ~ 1500x500 ft.

In the situation you describe I would launch 2 Mavericks at the SAMs, then take out the AAA and manpads with 30mm. Then drop 2x CBUs on the BMPs. Clean up the rest with 30mm.

Easily doable even with a realistic loadout.

Oh yeah, definitely.

I don't screw around with anti-aircraft threats. Not even ZU-23 Urals. If it can reach out and touch me, I don't enter it's envelope. That's what mavericks are for.

I did the mission successfully. I hit one of the SAMs with a MAV, the other one I still can't find. Both Manpads with MAVs. I took the BMPs out with bombs, 3 survived which I got with more MAVs.

What I'd do for a scenario like that is bring an ordinary load, but x2 or 3. So, 2-3 Mavericks on each wing (I know some will go mental at this, but lets face it, IRL if you only had a single A-10 available like in OPs DCS scenario I think they'd say having the plane come back without holes makes the wear on the tires worth it), 3 LGBs on each wing, and a mix of assorted sweets on the remaining pylons.

Engage the AAA/MANPADs from a distance with the Mavericks, then come in with the bombs. Repeat as necessary, with time you'll get the instinct that tells you what the best way to handle any given scenario is. There's never that one single correct answer to any given situation IMHO.

Also, concerning the GAU-8. If it's tanks we're talking about, don't rely on it unless they're older ones. If it's BMPs, go ahead and use it from a distance. Just one of the 4:5 AP:HE mix (IIRC) will punch right through that BMP anywhere you hit it.

Sorry to be the unbeliever... I can´t see that happening... got to try it meself... I know for sure can deal with BMP fromn stand off with cannon with zero issues...

We´ll see...

If you do it right there's actually zero danger.

Approach from 15,000+ ft AGL. Roll in, diving on target, fire, break. You'll stay out of their engagement zones.

This way you can save the Mavericks for more dangerous targets.

The BMP are basically guarding the MANPADs, so GUNS is a no go

You must use CBUs in first run (and maybe second run also) to clear out manpads and you also get some of the light vehicles. Then use the gun to finish off the rest. Drop CBUs from above 16000 feet agl! Preferably the 105

These are the MANPADs



SAM



How I normally end missions

First the SAM systems must be out by a SEAD mission.

I find MANPADs to be more of a pain than a threat, as long as you know that they are present and stay outside of their engagement zone. Problem is that DCS doesn't yet model frag damage, so individual MANPADs are much tougher to kill than in real life because they're small and you have to hit close enough to get them within the blast radius of the weapon (which is much smaller than the frag pattern). Otherwise, they would be easy prey for rockets, cluster bombs, or even a "near miss" with the 30mm HE.

If you need to drop within the engagement range of the MANPAD (i.e. you want a tight pattern with the CBU-97/105s), then select a repeating flare countermeasure setting and start popping flares just before your attack run, and continue popping flares through your attack and exit from the engagement zone. Russian MANPADs are easily spoofed by flares (the FIM-92 Stinger less so, but flares are very effective against Stingers as well).

Funny, thats generally how I land as well

Ah. That adds an extra dimension to the job.
Can you send me the mission?

You had my curiosity, now you have my attention.

It is the Campaign for the A10C. THe mission in it is called BMP interdiction something like that. It is propbpaly the 10th one I did or so. But I also failed most of them prior to some extend at least.

In that case, I'd say just go with Mavericks on the BMPs. If the ground-air threat is in their immediate vicinity and isn't easy enough to take out, then think about it: The BMPs are for all intents and purposes to be considered as ground-air threats and treated as such.

Only bring Mavericks, RTB when they're used up and come back with more. Alternatively, you can bring as many FFARs as possible on the remaining pylons and perform a CCRP long range rocket bombardment. It's not really a common thing to do, but it is intended for cases when it's too risky to do CCIP rocket shooting and you still need to suppress a larger area. This sounds like a perfect opportunity to do that. If you get lucky (you're bound to when you put that many rockets into the area) you'll hit a few grunts with MANPADs and BMPs.

The MANPADS are quite easy to take out. AGM-64H and force correlate is all you need

Is there any SEAD support in the mission?

Then I'd say guns isn't a no go. Unless there's something else lurking around?

Like I said a GUN run would be impossible to pull off.

The AO (MANPADS in the bottom left, rest is BMP)



BMPs setup



MANPADs



How a GUN run ends

Well, your original question was how do you take out a row of tanks. Which to me means MBT's not BMP's and you did not mention about the AAA cover

Yes but if you read further you will see this being updated.

Well, if you can take out the MANPADs, then do that and move on to the BMPs. If you can't, then revert back to my previous post about staying away.

Another point is that if picture #4 is how close you go for gun runs, you should try staying a lot further away. You have PAC for a reason, it makes long range gun shots very easy.

How about CBU-97's?

I don't see why you consider gun runs a no-go. Low altitude gun runs, maybe, but I would choose a high-altitude strafe in this situation.

If you can acquire the MANPADS well enough to engage them with a Maverick, you can acquire them well enough to take them out with the cannon while staying safe at high altitude. That saves your other ordnance on the more robust armor.

Come in at 15 KFT or so, dive on target at about 30deg dive, stabilize the AP pipper on a target, let some rounds fly (tiny burst for infantry, a few hundred for the BMPs), then pull up before the threat ceiling (6KFT? 9KFT?). Rinse, repeat. Attacking from the rear of the armor should improve penetration, but that shouldn't be a big issue with the GAU-8 on some BMPs. Keep the altitude high and even if a MANPADS is fired you'll have some space to deal with it.

Concur. That stuff (and manpads too) are so soft skinned you can make short work of them even from greater distance.
Improvise, Adapt and Overcome

My thoughts so far:
1. Ain't gunna kill 6 tanks in one pass with GBU-12s. Really there's no need, you go 300 knots they go 15. Aerial combat is not a warrior art, it is calculated murder. Be that serial killer. Take your time, cherish every direct impact individually.

2. SFWs are the only practical "one pass wipe" weapon. No SFW has nor ever will be combat dropped from an A-10. Any remaining CBU-97s have been converted to WCMD. They are cool but it feels like a B-61 on an F-16. Yeah, it could happen but it won't.

3. CBU-87s at sufficient density to damage a T series tank are going to hit 1-2 max with a pair in road march spacing. They also have severe UXO problems which would make me cringe dropping anywhere populated. The weight and drag makes me rather bring a slant-2 Paveway on a TER-9 instead.

4. Paveway II is my favorite for tank plinking. It can hit movers and has no DSU-33 airburst like most real JDAM (which might kill a tank anyway IDK).

5. Mavericks are by far the fastest killers and great for halting or disrupting a column. With discipline one can fire these above MANPAD ceiling. I obey the fact the USAF discontinued LAU-88 use which leaves me with two. I wouldn't tolerate the drag anyway. Speed is life.

6. Dedicated armor hunting I would probably go 2xLGB 2xMav. There ain't no rule that says you have to kill them all on the first sortie. Go back and rearm. DCS does mission design in the M-M-M-monster kill philosophy but that can't be helped.

7. Guns v T-series is tough. You're of course well inside any ADA range and even the 12.7MM is a threat. It's best to use 2-ship feint tactics and non-lethal damaging runs to degrade their defense and survive.

8. BMP2s are better Shilkas than Shilkas are! Stay >2nm.

Plaque-worthy quote, right there.

Moot. This is a sim where everyday is "Anything Can Happen Day". If you choose not to equip the weapons because you don't feel it's realistic, more power to you, but that doesn't rule it out as an option for those of us playing it as a game.

Some acronym definition for those of you following at home:
SFW = Sensor Fuzed Weapons = BLU-108 submunition. It's wicked. Google it.
UXO = UneXploded Ordnance = Bombs that didn't go boom when they were supposed to.

Altitude is the key here. I can't speak to USAF tactics, but I've successfully engaged T-series tanks with high-altitude high-angle strafes in the A-10C. You spend a lot more ordnance than when in near, but it's a working solution.

Or at altitude. 2nm ~ 12,000 ft, but I've found a hard floor of 8 but starting attacks at 10-12 is still pretty safe.

I think the newer BLU-108's have built in self-destruct/self-deactivate safeties built in now to prevent the dangers of having a bunch of unexploded skeets laying around... but off-topic... sorry

Paraphrased but absolutely stolen.

Yes the SFW has 3 detonation mechanisms: the dual-mode sensor for penetrator targets, a ~10' ground level fragmentation trigger, and a minutes/hours nullification timeout. SFWs are practically UXO free in the sense it's very difficult to be injured by one if it doesn't explode normally. They also cost as much as your house. Human rights are absolutely right to decry problematic submunitions like PTAB or BLU-97 but absolutely idiotic to call for a ban on CBUs entirely. It's well within our engineering abilities to make CBUs with acceptable collateral properties.



Gun effectiveness is apparently significantly dependent on attack angle (and extremely on range) with low or high angles being OK with a large "no go" zone between 20-40 degrees. I prefer the low angle strafe profile. High angle is really demanding on recovery. Firing from 1-2nm is good to damage and will degrade the MBTs. Of course the 0.5-0.7nm "kill shot" heavily favors rear shots. That can be troublesome if they are arranged such that I expose myself to other units to get that angle. Exposure to more than 1-2 gun systems on a run exceeds my personal risk threshold.

Then gun is great when the threat of retaliation is low enough, much like the 2A42 on the Ka-50.

It was mentioned that a low pass gun run will not work. How would I do a High pass gun run??

Good video on the CBU-97:

That'd work only on the DCS Billiard-table. IRL you will have a hard time finding them once you are back from rearming.

The way to do it is the 30mm on the Hog has a longer range than the guns on the BMP/Shilka. So you have to fire your burst before entering the tgts umbrella and break away. So fire from further away and break off, also use the terrain to mask your ingress and egress if there is some available.

BTW CBU105s/97s are the best weapon against tanks you can easily take out 9 with just 2 CBU97s. The idea though is to drop the CBU in the middle of the convoy whilst flying towards the centre rather than approaching from the rear or front of the convoy. Because of the way the spread pattern of the CBUs skeets from my experience most kills are gained by using this approach.