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#3977236 - 07/06/14 03:09 PM Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available ***** [Re: thealx]  
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As far as recon distance, any idea what the minimum sensor detection distance is for AI units involved in recon missions? If I put it at 4000 meters, I'm wondering if the AI will fly to within 4000m of X, not detect anything automatically, and then head back to home base. So I guess I'm wondering at what range will any unit sent on a recon mission cause that shaded area on the map to become lit up? Is this even relevant?

What about a simple dot or something on the god's eye TSD MFD to show what point your EO/FLIR/DTV/mast is currently pointed at? Having something like that on the HUD too I would assume would be harder.

Any way to get pre-briefed (already known from the map screen) threat circles to show up on the TSD, too? I don't think the objects themselves would be necessary. That seems like a conundrum, because you don't want helos to fire on things they haven't detected themselves yet. Are the threat circles separate from the emitting object or tied together inextricably?

Oh, and continuing to show missile time to impact even when the bay doors are closed. Yeah, that's the ticket.



The term "necroposting" was invented by a person with no social memory beyond a year. People with a similar hangup are those o.k. with the internet being transient vapor.

http://www.openfuelstandard.org/2011/12/methanol-wins-open-wager.html

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#3977245 - 07/06/14 04:07 PM Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available [Re: thealx]  
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Quote:
If I put it at 4000 meters, I'm wondering if the AI will fly to within 4000m of X, not detect anything automatically

I guess it's much simpler - when "transmit recon" activated game engine calculates current keysite state and makes proper mission, doesn't matter how much units was detected by recon chopper.
Quote:
Are the threat circles separate from the emitting object or tied together inextricably?

I didn't make any changes in recognition functions so right now I don't even know how this stuff works.

#3977428 - 07/07/14 08:14 AM Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available [Re: thealx]  
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Hi Reticuli do you mean something like these?



#3977688 - 07/07/14 07:37 PM Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available [Re: SKIP2008]  
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Originally Posted By: SKIP2008
Hi Reticuli do you mean something like these?





What's this a response to?


The term "necroposting" was invented by a person with no social memory beyond a year. People with a similar hangup are those o.k. with the internet being transient vapor.

http://www.openfuelstandard.org/2011/12/methanol-wins-open-wager.html

Saitek X65 and X52, Glide, Winx3D, and GlovePIE Profiles http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=reticuli&CatID=miscmisc

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X52 + Silicone Grease = JOY stick
#3977922 - 07/08/14 07:03 AM Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available [Re: thealx]  
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Reticuli, it refers about this:




What about a simple dot or something on the god's eye TSD MFD to show what point your EO/FLIR/DTV/mast is currently pointed at? Having something like that on the HUD too I would assume would be harder.



Last edited by SKIP2008; 07/08/14 07:04 AM.
#3978181 - 07/08/14 07:14 PM Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available [Re: SKIP2008]  
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Originally Posted By: SKIP2008
Reticuli, it refers about this:




What about a simple dot or something on the god's eye TSD MFD to show what point your EO/FLIR/DTV/mast is currently pointed at? Having something like that on the HUD too I would assume would be harder.




O.k. Is it the b&w second photo you're referring to with the dashed cross? I don't see a marker on the top green one. EO/Flir/TV markers of some kind on the TSD or HUD would be nice; both would be great. I don't know if it's a resolution issue or something with fog or terrain rendering that causes some stuff not to show up in the EO/FLIR/TV MFD, but often I seem to find it easier to make out distant objects with the HUD. Also being able to reference position with waypoints, especially ones I've set myself, would be very useful. In the case of the HUD, it's possible to use the gun crosshair for this purpose, but in the Comanche that reveals your position easily since gun is tied to bay doors. I think a line on the TSD for that purpose might be useful, that way you can also see if your view is over the horizon. A dashed crosshair or diamond or whatever would work for the HUD.


The term "necroposting" was invented by a person with no social memory beyond a year. People with a similar hangup are those o.k. with the internet being transient vapor.

http://www.openfuelstandard.org/2011/12/methanol-wins-open-wager.html

Saitek X65 and X52, Glide, Winx3D, and GlovePIE Profiles http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=reticuli&CatID=miscmisc

http://library.avsim.net/register.php

X52 + Silicone Grease = JOY stick
#3978504 - 07/09/14 06:57 AM Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available [Re: thealx]  
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Hi Reticuli, in the top photo there are two small dots in the TADS constraint box, i was referring both but i think that the second photo is better. In the meanwhile i've found another photo:



Last edited by SKIP2008; 07/09/14 07:28 AM.
#3979222 - 07/10/14 05:24 PM Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available [Re: SKIP2008]  
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Originally Posted By: SKIP2008
Hi Reticuli, in the top photo there are two small dots in the TADS constraint box, i was referring both but i think that the second photo is better. In the meanwhile i've found another photo:




I don't think dots in the TADs constraint box are particularly useful except seeing what your distance is from a constraint "edge" (which we already have with the square within a square) or showing where designated targets are within that range. I'm definitely in-favor of some kind of markers on both the TSD and the larger HUD view to have a ground reference to the real helmet FLIR & terrain views as well as other objects & waypoints on the TSD. Thanks.


The term "necroposting" was invented by a person with no social memory beyond a year. People with a similar hangup are those o.k. with the internet being transient vapor.

http://www.openfuelstandard.org/2011/12/methanol-wins-open-wager.html

Saitek X65 and X52, Glide, Winx3D, and GlovePIE Profiles http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=reticuli&CatID=miscmisc

http://library.avsim.net/register.php

X52 + Silicone Grease = JOY stick
#3979518 - 07/11/14 08:03 AM Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available [Re: thealx]  
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Reticuli i'm not sure but maybe Arneh done something like this in his apache avionics update.

#3980002 - 07/12/14 11:59 AM Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available [Re: thealx]  
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Reticuli - your GlovePie fix for altering yaw and such, is this going to be patched into the EECH engine proper, or is it exclusively a GlovePie option for the foreseeable future? I haven't tried it yet, just curious.


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#3980089 - 07/12/14 03:22 PM Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available [Re: NutsnBolts]  
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Originally Posted By: NutsnBolts
Reticuli - your GlovePie fix for altering yaw and such, is this going to be patched into the EECH engine proper, or is it exclusively a GlovePie option for the foreseeable future? I haven't tried it yet, just curious.


I have no idea. I'm not one of the EECH modders.

I think the EECH flight model is so simple that you would have to slap the GlovePIE code (with I assume syntax translated) on top of the existing stuff, which would result in the exact same outcome. It's not like X-Plane's flight model where you're getting background flight dynamics, and you can model a feedback system between the orientation of the aircraft, your inputs, and what signals are sent through to the control surfaces or rotors. To get seamless LB2-like AC-RC/AH (attitude command & rate command / attitude hold) like in the Comanche and Zulu primary flight laws (the real choppers also had/have cruising IAS-command and transition/hover wings-leveling flight laws, among other modes) would require an entire re-write of the EECH flight model and it would not necessarily be more sophisticated and hi-fi feeling than the current "pseudo-real" one. And that would probably upset whoever's using Logitech G940 or a pole cyclic. They must be out there. The combination of the EECH FM and the PPJoy/GlovePIE system, whether it is separate or translated and integrated into EECH, increases the complexity and nuance, not to mention taking care of the trimming automatically and fluidly. It's rough and crude, but I think that's a good thing considering how sparse, simplistic, and neat & tidy the EECH flight model feels by default.

And if you're heavy-handed, I worked some stuff in where the engines will throttle down and you have to hit <> rapidly to fix it. Most people would probably comment those lines out, but I love it.

You install PPJoy, create a virtual joystick with the axis assignments I mention (may need to be tweaked depending on the HOTAS), load up the respective script you want, assign the PPJoy axis in EECH. Go fly. With EECH, you don't even have to tell Windows what your primary joystick is.

My most recent scripts are not on AVsim, yet, so you can find them on SimHQ in the respective threads I copied them into for EECH and Comanche. I think the Blackshark 1/2 script I use is basically the same already uploaded.

I also have a really simple manual trimming script I came up with for FSX and X-Plane helos (no go for SAR 4, which is like LB2 and bypasses DirectX stick assignments), though X-Plane does allow a very slow auto trimming of pitch loads option in Planemaker, which I usually use. As one person put it, it makes Comanche and Enhanced Apache in X-Plane fly like small planes almost. You still have to use your coolie hat to trim the roll and maybe use a rotary for trimming yaw, but it's nice and I was happy Austin granted that feature request. Oh! And I worked into the Artificial Stability system on them a way to get a speed limiting thing that slightly resembles the pitch up moment of RBS! At the very least, it's a fake safety feature... heh heh. I think X-Plane now has VRS, too.


The term "necroposting" was invented by a person with no social memory beyond a year. People with a similar hangup are those o.k. with the internet being transient vapor.

http://www.openfuelstandard.org/2011/12/methanol-wins-open-wager.html

Saitek X65 and X52, Glide, Winx3D, and GlovePIE Profiles http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=reticuli&CatID=miscmisc

http://library.avsim.net/register.php

X52 + Silicone Grease = JOY stick
#3986120 - 07/26/14 12:19 AM Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available [Re: thealx]  
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I'd really like to try this combination out on my EECH install, albeit with the engine spin-down bit dummied out - reason being that I mainly fly the Mi-24, and that uses Alt/+ and Alt/- to control its dual throttle, rather than the normal throttle controls. I have a different HOTAS setup from yours (Thrustmaster T-Flight HOTAS X), so I shall give that a go as soon as I feel I understand what the hell I'm meant to be doing! Still, can't break the game I guess.

Might I suggest sticking up a separate thread for it?

On a related note, just for kicks, I tried switching nonlinear pedal to 0. As I expected, it made no difference; still, I felt I should eliminate the possibility.


<Insert witty sig block here>
#3998333 - 08/20/14 11:04 AM Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available [Re: thealx]  
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Waw!!!, this sumer I was playing this release and now is completly awesome the difficulty level and all the improves.
All the units respond : vulcan, bmp's, ship's, fighters.

Completly awesome and very realistyc.
You are an artist.

Congratulationd and thanks.

#3998437 - 08/20/14 03:31 PM Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available [Re: thealx]  
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thanks for positive feedback. some annoying bugs are here but I'm always delay dealing with them. this day will come! someday..

#4003330 - 08/31/14 06:40 PM Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available [Re: thealx]  
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Hi,

Despite having installed the most recent 1.15.2 patch for quite some time (just after it was released to be more precise), only recently I had the opportunity play EECH with this version and I would like to give my feedback regarding 1.15.2 version:

Positive/what I did like:
- Many ground units are now much better in detecting and engaging air units (resuming, they defend themselves much better). Namely, I noticed improvements on this regard in the 2S6 Tunguska (this one is very deadly now), IFVs (Bradley, BMPs) and even on MBTs (Abrams and T-80). Ships also seem to be much better as well.
- Fighter/combat aircraft are a "million" times better and are now very effective weapons as they should be, resuming they now battle enemy forces.
- Dedicated Air-to-Air missiles such as Stingers seem to be much more effective in hitting enemy targets and definitely less prone to be decoyed by flares.
- Many, many other improvements. Resuming, thanks very much for the update.


However I did find some stuff that I didn't like and feel they aren't realistic and IMO should be corrected:

1- Helicopter lift power is just too weak within the new flight model! For example in other to be able to maintain altitude in flight an Apache helicopter with a rather lighter payload of 8xHellfires, 2xRocket pods, full gun ammo and 50% fuel the player has to apply around 85% of torque or more. This leaves only about 15% of torque in order for the player to be able to gain altitude which means that normally the player hardly moves or only makes extremely small movements on the collective axis, this if the player doesn't want to over-torque (which is something that should always be avoidable, except for some extreme circumstances)!
First I thought that this was due to the new "realistic engine workload simulation model" but after disabling that line in the EECH.ini file, I didn't notice considerable changes. I do however noticed that this problem doesn't occur (or isn't so severe) if I use the Default flight model even if I have the "realistic engine workload simulation model" active!
An another thing that I notice with the new flight model, is that the tail rotor authority is also too weak -> for example if I'm hovering and apply full pedal (either to the left or right) the helicopters Yaws at a very slow rate, as opposite to the default flight model which turns faster and IMO more realistically.
IMO it's like if the new flight model applies very weak power to the main and tail rotors!
Therefore and so far I prefer to use the default flight model together with the new "realistic engine workload simulation model".

2- The Radar Hellfire (AGM-114L) should be more effective against slow moving air or airborne targets, resuming more similar to what they were in the versions previous to 1.15.2.
Currently in 1.15.2, Radar Hellfires are completely ineffective even against a hovering (or very slow moving) helicopter!
So far I haven't tested the Laser Hellfire against airborne targets but I hope that at least they are more effective.
EDIT: I just tested the Laser Hellfire and this Hellfire variant is quite effective against air target as opposed to the radar Hellfire.
However I noticed that this could probably be the reason of another issue that I've experiencing with 1.15.2, which is:
2.1- Russian advanced helicopters (Ka-52 and Mi-28) are much more deadly in an air-to-air environment than a Longbow Apache when fighting each other, which is definitely not realistic! I suspect that one of the reasons or perhaps the main reason for this, is that the Longbow Apache seem to carry Radar (only) Hellfires most of the times which puts it at a serious disadvantage against enemy Ka-50/52s and Mi-28s since missiles such as Vihkr, Ataka (and Laser Hellfire) outrange the Stinger (or Strela) missiles and are carried in higher numbers.

3- While the ability to engage aerial targets in most ground units seem to be improved (as mentioned above) some dedicated anti-air units, namely the Avenger and the SA-13 are still completely ineffective against air targets. I've seen recurrently M-2 Bradleys and even M-1 Abrams engaging (firing at) enemy helicopters while the Avengers don't do nothing (except moving the turret sometimes but they won't open fire). The same also seem to happen with the SA-13.

4- This is a problem that I noticed in versions previous to 1.15.2 but is still present in this latest version:
When ordering the gunner to lock targets while flying the AH-1Z using EO sensors (both FLIR and DTV) the gunner never locks airborne targets even if there's for example an enemy helicopter flying right in front of you, which makes the AH-1Z useless against air targets!

I hope this helps to improve this great game and patch even further.

Last edited by ricnunes; 09/01/14 02:41 AM. Reason: New feedback
#4003636 - 09/01/14 04:03 PM Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available [Re: ricnunes]  
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ricnunes, thanks for your reply. I can comment some of your notices but I'm not planning to make any changes in dynamics or AI behaver in close future so we can return to the discussion about these problems when time will comes.

1. realistic engine workload was made long time ago by Werewolf and it wasn't changed since then. shortly it decrease engine RPM value when you increasing main rotor blades pitch value, so you can feel loss of power, but it's not the reason of continuous lift loss. what is really makes "problems" for you is transitional lift. lift gain instead of linearly increasing now has curve shape and has maximum value close to half of maximum helicopter velocity and will decrease with velocity increasing. so, if you flying at maximum speed you will experience lift loss. same for hovering and low speed moving, but usually ground effect makes it not very noticeable. just for testing purpose you can try to switch back to new FM and disable Transitional Lift in dynamics options.

2. new gwut weapon parameter was added - detonation_radius, and it makes significant changes to gameplay. earlier all guided weapons hits targets when missile was close enough (15 meters or something), what is not really true because not all missiles has proximity fuze. now only ATA missiles has it and some of the ATGM (Vikhr, AGM114R), but not Ataka or Shturm (ATA version of Ataka exists but we haven't it in the game), so I can't say why you noticed any changes in Havoc effectiveness. usually AGM114L included in Air-to-Ground payload and AGM114R - in Air-to-Air payload because I didn't find any confirmation that Longbow Hellfire capable to detonate from the distance to target. of course, all weapons changes require a lot of adjustments to bring game back to the balance.

3. I think this problem is quite simple - they just reloading. ground units has unlimited ammo but every rearming makes next one is longer. or maybe target was too close. or maybe it's really a bug. anyway thanks for the tip, I will remember that.

#4003656 - 09/01/14 05:06 PM Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available [Re: thealx]  
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As far as I'm remeber the bug of the AAAs is even in the vanilla game, and this includes the AA guns of the Tunguska, making that MBTs and IFVs are far more efective in the AA role that dedicated AAA vehicles.

MBTs and IFVs fire their guns on sight against airbone targets, and with extreme efficiency, but you can fly around AAAs at any range without their firing a single bullet.

NOTE: Any GWUT file that make the game a little easier? I'm prefer when EECH was a mid-tier simulator. Too much realism make the game boring.

#4003666 - 09/01/14 05:23 PM Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available [Re: thealx]  
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easier in what way? if you talking about FM it will be better for you to use default flight model. also you can set easy difficulty level - it will decrease amount of damage taken by player twice and also there will be no armor value for all game units.

#4004209 - 09/03/14 12:30 AM Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available [Re: thealx]  
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Originally Posted By: thealx
ricnunes, thanks for your reply. I can comment some of your notices but I'm not planning to make any changes in dynamics or AI behaver in close future so we can return to the discussion about these problems when time will comes.

1. realistic engine workload was made long time ago by Werewolf and it wasn't changed since then. shortly it decrease engine RPM value when you increasing main rotor blades pitch value, so you can feel loss of power, but it's not the reason of continuous lift loss. what is really makes "problems" for you is transitional lift. lift gain instead of linearly increasing now has curve shape and has maximum value close to half of maximum helicopter velocity and will decrease with velocity increasing. so, if you flying at maximum speed you will experience lift loss. same for hovering and low speed moving, but usually ground effect makes it not very noticeable. just for testing purpose you can try to switch back to new FM and disable Transitional Lift in dynamics options.


Well, the problem is what I'm experiencing (lift loss) happens in every or any flight regime, being it hovering, flying slowly or flying at medium, cruise or high speeds and/or any altitude. This behaviour doesn't concur with any other helicopter flight sim that I've played so far (and I played many) including in the helicopter sim that many consider the "most realistic" in terms of flight model/dynamic which is DCS:Black Shark 2.
I find the default EECH flight model to be more "in line" with other realistic helicopter sims, such as Longbow 2 and (again) DCS:Black Shark 2, among others.

In the meanwhile I'll try for testing purpose your suggestion of disabling Transitional Lift while using the new flight model in order to help you.

However I must say that I'm happy in a realistic perspective/gameplay with the default flight model and all other realistic option set to on (together with the 'realistic engine workload simulation')


Quote:

2. new gwut weapon parameter was added - detonation_radius, and it makes significant changes to gameplay. earlier all guided weapons hits targets when missile was close enough (15 meters or something), what is not really true because not all missiles has proximity fuze. now only ATA missiles has it and some of the ATGM (Vikhr, AGM114R), but not Ataka or Shturm (ATA version of Ataka exists but we haven't it in the game), so I can't say why you noticed any changes in Havoc effectiveness. usually AGM114L included in Air-to-Ground payload and AGM114R - in Air-to-Air payload because I didn't find any confirmation that Longbow Hellfire capable to detonate from the distance to target. of course, all weapons changes require a lot of adjustments to bring game back to the balance.


I see what you mean but if I'm not mistaken the AGM-114R even having a Fragmentation (Frag) Sleeve it doesn't have a proximity fuse - It's the proximity fuse (and not the warhead itself) that enables a missile to detonate on proximity (and a Fragmentation warhead or Sleeve makes the proximity detonation more effective/deadly). From what I know (and if I'm not mistaken) all AGM-114 Hellfire missile variants seem to have direct contact detonators only but it's important to know that the Hellfire missile is considerably more precise and definitely more agile than the Vikhr which makes the Hellfire a weapons which is potentially as good or even better in some situations than the Vikhr even when engaging airborne targets, specially low-speed airborne targets such as helicopters.
So resuming the Hellfire (both radar or Laser variants) compared to the Vikhr has the following advantages/disadvantages:
- Higher precision and agility which makes a direct impact on any target (including aerial ones, specially slow flying ones) more likely.
- If the missile detonates on the (aerial) target it means (in the vast majority of situations) the complete destruction of the (aerial) target.
- Don't have proximity fuse detonator which means that a near miss equals to no missile detonation and absolutely no damage to the (aerial) target.

The Vikhr compared to the Hellfire (both radar or Laser variants) has the following advantages/disadvantages:
- The missile is faster than the Hellfire which means that there's less time for the target to react.
- Proximity fuse means that a near miss can likely damage or even destroy an (aerial) target.
- Lower missile precision and agility means than it's less likely that the missile manages a direct hit and even a very near miss which could destroy or inflict considerable/heavy damage the (aerial) target.

Also and arguably, the best/most realistic Ka-50 and Vikhr simulation is DCS:BS2 and managing to hit a Vikhr at a slow and straight flying helicopter such as a UH-60 in that simulation is at best a "challenge" so I believe that while the Vikhr has a proximity fuse detonator, definitely it isn't a good anti-air weapon.

The Hellfire while not being designed to be an anti-air weapon (and therefore the lack of a proximity fuse) it already demonstrated (in the real world) a considerable capability to hit/destroy ability or aerial targets either on training ranges (against drones) or while fired in "anger" (in combat) near Israel (over the Gaza strip if I'm not mistaken) when for example a Cessna suspected to be flying weapons for the terrorist/guerrilla/insurgent groups was shot down in flight by a Hellfire missile fired from an Israeli AH-64 Apache.


Quote:

3. I think this problem is quite simple - they just reloading. ground units has unlimited ammo but every rearming makes next one is longer. or maybe target was too close. or maybe it's really a bug. anyway thanks for the tip, I will remember that.


The problem is that the Avenger and the SA-13 almost never or very rarely fire any of their missiles so I doubt that it's anything related to reloading - You can't reload the ammo that you haven't expended yet.

#4004293 - 09/03/14 06:49 AM Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available [Re: thealx]  
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I'm not practicing comparing EECH with any other games so all my changes based on boring numbers from open sources, and I found that default flight model gives too much lift. I can be wrong, or I just miscalculate some values, but I have no real helicopter control experience and only way to make things right is just messing around with values and wait for result. this FM in early testing stage so all feedback like yours will be taken into account in flight model improving process.
btw, available power can be increased with changing main_rotor_induced_air max (usually 26.0) in dynamics/.dyn files.

it's hard to tell what components AGM-114R has - even if it's already in service there is not much detailed information. only found that pilot can change missile detonation mode (?) after launch to make explosion more effective (and I suppose it's different to ESAF that was present on earlier Hellfire missiles). I can only guess how it works, but I found it's similar to Vikhr detonation control, only difference for I-251 Shkval it should be done before launch. you can disable proximity fuze by setting detonation_radius = 0.0 for Hellfire.

Last edited by thealx; 09/03/14 06:50 AM.
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