For you hardcore flyers out there, which I aspire to be.

I understand navigation. Go northeast for 1 hr. at 100 mph. and you have traveled northeast and gone 100 miles. In the flight sim, say for a bombing or airfield attack mission, it is hard to see an airfield at that height much less hit it, and circling around enemy territory for long periods of time trying to find is bad for ones health. I know you do not have to be too many degrees off for a while and you are miles from your target.

Waypoints, How in the heck do you precisely hit a waypoint?

I am setting up a second monitor, open my (thanks Lou!) map with paint and using it to draw the route. When the mission is over, undo, and redraw new mission. I think that will suit me.

Any pointers are appreciated, and thanks in advance.

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MFair, you can see aerodromes, roads, rail lines, and rivers from 16,000' as this is the altitude I do all my recce flights at for WOFF mapping purposes. That being said, you will likely only be up at about 8'000' to 10,000' as this seems to be where the bulk of the WOFF missions operate at. Drawing in your mission route as you describe works great and you can continue to make adjustments and notes on your map as you fly said mission. Use the roads, rail lines, rivers, lakes, and woods as your navigation aids and you should do just fine MFair. And remember, it was not unusual for our RL counterparts to get lost at times during their missions, so you're in good company.

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For the waypoints it's simple. I just ignore them and make my own flight plan using specific landmarks on Lou's maps. This way I make short legs from one landmark to the other which limits risks of flying off course on a long leg.

Fly IFR "I follow Roads".

Check the map for spottable features and make a note.
E.g. Fly NE 10 miles till the kidney shaped lake is just of to my left. Then turn left and fly to within sight of the crossing over the river - next to the bit that bends back on itself. etc.

A big problem with 'fly north at 100mph for 1 hr' is that if the wind is blowing towards you left front side for instance you will be blown back and to the right. You could end up miles away in the wrong spot after an hour, so you will need to compensate for things like that. Best to combine it with frequent landmarks to help you know if you are getting blown off course and how much to compensate for. i.e. if in the above you arrive to the right and slighly ahead of the kidney shaped lake 15 mins ahead of whern you expected to be there you can take the little bit off course information and adjust the flight accordingly e.g. fly a bit to the left of your planned direction, and slightly slower to compensate for being right and ahead of time.

A basic 'learn to fly' book will cover all the basics and show you how to use the modern navigation tools (not really modern but post WW1), but most of this period was flown by dead reckoning and experience to get a rough fix, and check the map when you get close.
Map and a stopwatch/clock is all you really need.

IFR also works for "I follow Rail tracks" and "I follow Rivers"

The British called navigating by railway lines 'Bradshawing' after the railway guides of the time.

Unusual clumps of woodland, road and railway junctions towns, rivers and so on.
Cross open areas by dead reckoning, but look what landmarks you can use to correct yourself.

Thanks for all the tips folks. At least I know I am doing everything pretty much correct. I was just not progressing as fast as I would like and figured there was something I was not getting., but then I am an impatient person. I will try a little less coffee and deep breathing and see if that helps. Thanks again for the advice!

After a good long WW1 flight in lousy weather like I had earlier today in the Spad challenge, my evening FSX Air Hauler flight on the Alaska coast was very comfortable with VOR/DME, NDBs, GPS and ILS/lights for the runway ! And I can have ATC as a backup !

I just started navigating by Lou's maps MFair so I know exactly what you mean. I find it easier than I thought it would be to navigate. The tree clusters are good landmarks when there's nothing else. It's important to keep an eye on your compass and anticipate what's coming and spot these landmarks as they come up to adjust a bit.

I don't write on the maps as they exist as a file on my computer but I adjust the map so that all the locations I'm hitting are visible and as large as possible to fill my extra screen. Then I study it and figure out how I'm going to get to that point and determine what landmarks I'll be looking for ahead of time.
I ignore waypoints altogether as they just confuse things and of course I don't want to turn on my TAC.

Very impressive Corsaire! That would be a big change. Time warp. Shiloh, ignoring the way points makes a big difference. I thought I needed to make them for some in game thing for successful mission. Onward we go! Thanks again.

Regarding waypoints, like Corsaire and Shiloh said you have the choice to just ignore them and make your own way to the target. A minor problem is that WOFF will (I think) sometimes penalize you with an unsuccessful mission ... because you never arrived at the early waypoints then WOFF doesn't look for you arriving at the target.

If you see that this is happening (i.e. the debrief tells you that you never reached the target area, when you know you did) then there is a way around the problem. The solution is to use the 'advance waypoint' function, which is shift-w, to tell WOFF to skip the early waypoints and only look at the target waypoint. About a minute after takeoff, hit shift-w once to skip past the 'circling climb' waypoint, then hit shift-w again if there is another waypoint ( 'waypoint 1' or 'waypoint A' ) between you and the target that you want to skip. At that point, WOFF should have the target as your next waypoint, and if you arrive there then you should get credit for it.

To get the hang of it, try a few test flight with the TAC on and you will see how using shift-w skips through the waypoints.

Or just say 'screw it' and live with the odd unsuccessful mission. It's not a big deal. Also, don't lead the flight and your problem is solved.

P.S. The skip waypoint function is also great for telling your flight leader to 'get on with it' when following him through that boring 'circling climb' phase. Hit shift-w once the circling-climb begins and he will head off directly on the mission.

Thanks Scout, good info!

Just to let you all know, I flew my 1st mission with my big boy pants on. It was a pretty straight forward so no big leap. Made it to the patrol area, patrolled for 24 min. then headed back. Crossed the lines, lined up over my landmark and almost hit my home field perfect. Only about a 1/4 mile off.

Thanks again for all the hints and tips! Be joining your ranks soon. That was a good feeling.

Since my 1st post on this I have been flying map and compass, no labels bla bla bla. Two things I have found out is how easy it is to fly this way without getting lost. Especially after a few flights and you get to know your surroundings. The other thing with no labels is how fast you start to identify aircraft, because you have to! Once you go no labels your brain starts to pic up the small differences in aircraft. A note of advice to anyone wanting to fly this way is that time advance will get you killed. I think Corsaire pointed this out. I get my butt jumped enough in real time. With time advance you just don't see them coming.

Its been a little bit of a learning curve but well worth it to me and thanks to all the folks who helped me out!

Seems like the new 'big boy pants' are fitting pretty well then (grin). Nice going MFair and great encouragement for others to maybe try it too.

Two tips for flying without aids:

- fly higher than the orders say

- run away, when you are outnumbered by the specs you see - no matter what they are
(you can often find that out later)

Just amazed at this sim so far.Honestly,I have no idea how WOFF instills feeling in me that I haven't got in the past 20yrs of simulations.At first the FM felt a bit rigid but as I play more and more I find I have lost that feeling.Same with graphics where at first it shows its age but then suddenly the game starts to really draw you in,dare I say it,like no other sim can?The whole package just draws you in to the WW1 world,its great!!Its a work of art is how I feel about it and I have only flown 5 missions and 3 where no contact with enemy at all. LOL I was actually glad that my pilot survived.

Just one thing that I am nitpicking is the turning climb out part.When you first take off and before the turning climb starts the rest of your squad is slightly throttled back allowing you to easily stay in formation with them.That is a really great immersion boost for me. But then the climbout starts and the squad goes full throttle and what I believe to be perfect climb angle and I find I slowly drift away.I just cant keep up even with putting the engine management on auto mixture to rule that out.Any tips for me to allow me to stay in pretty good formation for the climbout?

The only time I've run into this problem is when I was in a squadron flying a Nieuport 17, and my squaddies were flying Nieuport 23's.

Are you flying the exact same model plane as the rest of your flight?

Whole squad is flying Nieuport 11's.Its not like I lose sight of them but I find that I have to be constantly on the edge of stalling and it can get annoying when they still start to break away.I hope its just the bebe's.

I just wanna add that I also purchased the skin pack and absolutely love it.Skins are not something I really care about yet these skins are like crack! Superb work and IMO well worth the price as they really draw you in!

NM and thanks.I think it was just me as I just flew another mission and I am having no issues keeping up in the climb out.Funny that one of the guys in my squad seems like he is having issues now and fell way behind until we reached alt.

Anyway,using Ankor's mod with Aris's cloud mod and MadMatt's sweetfx settings and I feel like I am up in the skies!!! Amazed again.:)

I solved the problem by skipping the whole climb out sequence. As soon as it starts, hit "Next waypoint" even if not leader and that's it (thanks to 77_Scout for the tip)
I discovered in MFJ1 challenge that the climb out sequence is scripted like the landing and that all AI planes are blind during that sequence. We had enemy planes flying 200 m under us and nobody moved.

I'll give that a try,though I do like the realism.Air start is another option though.

One more question,did pilots of this era carry compasses on to the planes that did not have them equipped?

I'm not sure, but to fly WOFF full-real in a plane with no compass, just note the time of day and you can figure out the direction of the sun. Then use the sun or the shadows cast by your wing-struts to tell what direction you are travelling. It's quite easy with a little practice.

It is amazing the tricks that we sometimes learned to overcome the lack of 'visual aids', and it occasionally dawns on you that you just possibly just stumbled on some things that real pilots did, simply because the simulation is that good when you turn off all the 'help'. When this happens it's a major immersion moment, for me anyway.

I agree,first thing I did was turn off map plane marker and I have landed at my base each time.How this is happening though is a mystery as I usually fly for 15 minutes HOPING I am going the right way and then the front appears and I can get a feel of where I am with regards to the large river on map.One of these times I am gonna head off into the unknown and probably lose my pilot.

Interesting idea about the sun/time and shadows on plane.I will give it a go though I am gonna turn the compass back on as I feel pilots must of carried compasses.

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Wolfstriked, from the accounts of many WWI pilots they did not tend to use a compass when flying as the ones fitted to the planes where incredibly fickle and unreliable. The ones they could wear on their wrists were also not particularly useful either as it was much too troublesome to try and hold them level and steady long enough to get an accurate reading. So most simply paid attention to landmarks and sun position and made their way accordingly.

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I don't feel that the systematic "go 5 miles north east and climb" is more realistic. It's all a question of how far away from your airfield is the mission zone, you will find that most of the time you have enough distance to climb to mission altitude in a straight line when you skip the climb, at least with scouts.
With slow climbing two seaters in the early years it can be more difficult.

I will practice navigating with sun/landmarks and pop up the compass every now and then so see how I am doing and then get rid of the compass when I feel confident enough.And I see the point about two seaters needing the circle climb out and fighters not.SHIFT-W it is!

One more question and totally off topic.Is WOFF ready for Oculus Rift?

The Bristol F2B had a compass on the top wing - see Wiki "A number of attempts were made to add forward firing Lewis guns on a Foster mounting or similar on the upper wing - either instead of, or in addition to the Vickers gun. Unfortunately this caused interference with the pilot's compass, which was mounted on the trailing edge of the upper wing. Some F.2Bs were fitted with a Lewis gun offset to starboard to minimise this effect."

As you have a few flight's experience, why not join in the DID Campaign? You can choose your level of 'reality' A, B or C with TAC, labels etc either allowed or not. You can read Olham's rules on page one of the thread.

If you want to do this, capture your pilot in as 'other' and I will add him.

Oh, what made me think is that in DID you should not use 'air start' because it doesn't count for your sortie time (BTDT).

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BTW Wolfstriked, welcome to the WOFF virtual skies and our digs here. New lads buy the drinks!



Lou

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I will read up on DID campaign and when my current pilot meets his end I'll give it a try. And the F2B is my favorite two seater and yes I love the placement of the compass.

Thanks for the welcome and drinks are on me!

Unfortunately you are limited to the 2-seaters availble in July 1916. You can try the Morane if you feel lucky! The FE2b is ok in its way and the Sopwith 1½ Strutter seems to be the favourite - used by the RNAS and 60 Sqn RFC. If you last 5 hours you can try the DH2 in 24 Sqn which is also not easy. I seem to be getting better with the DH2 mainly by avoiding combat!

Anyway, if your pilot dies you start again with a new one!

By the way, in WOFF you can have up to 99 pilots defined at one time, though only one is 'active' at any time.

I have added your ID to the WOFF capture web page below.

Was I just drafted WOFF style? As for the DH2,its another favorite of mine and I know all too well about avoiding combat as I find myself doing it all the time so I will fit right in!

I am trying to setup the DID campaign but have a few questions first.First is that I put my hud to hardcore the radar(TAC?)is on screen.How is radar hardcore?

Second is in regards to the accuracy of ones guns.I like to play the sim with realistic weapons and making the weapons disperse more seems against the simulation apsect to me.Also,I notice that it asks for the "less accurate" option for all 3 classes.Can I ask why that is?

The HUD setting in the workshop has nothing to do with the TAC. If the TAC is on your screen, simply turn it off (shift-t). If you are doing the hardcore 'A' group, never turn it back on. Simple

Experience has shown that the wider dispersion of bullets gives more realistic results. If you put accuracy on higher settings, you will find that the rear gunners are laser accurate and that it is also far to easy for both you and the AI to get kills with the forward guns.

Thanks 77_Scout.TAC only came on when I turned the HUD to hardcore so I just figured it was stuck on.I did turn it off after checking the key guide.I also just tried the dispersion at lower settings and will leave it there for now.