Hi folks. With some of the recent updates that have been worked on, it seems that some of the helo's and weapons have been 'upgraded' to modern times, compared to the era that the game was set in (i.e. Romeo Hellfire, upturned exhausts on AH64, addition of Viper etc).

I think as the community developing mods for the game, we should make a decision on where we want to go with this. Should the game be modernised in terms of the units and weapons available, or should it remain true to the era it was developed in? Should we be bothered even, and just let modders do what they want?

Personally, I don't think we should be upgrading everything, just because we can. It is nice to be able to do it, but it leaves the game in a bit of a mish-mash state, where some helo's and weapons are more modern than others.

I realise that with the Comanche and Hokum both being in the game at launch, it could be argued that the game was already a fantasy. But in 2000, the Comanche was still being developed, and wasn't cancelled until 2004. And the Hokum is now in service with some Russian units. So perhaps in the case of those 2, they can be excused.

I suppose I'm thinking more of balance. If we upgrade the Blue side, the Reds could be left behind etc.

Anyway, I just thought it would be good to start a discussion on this, so that we are all able to have our say.


P.S. I'm in no way having a go at any of the mods that have been released, as I think the work being done is great and keeps this old sim flying.

it's important question of course, but I don't really understand were shift is. it's modern air combat simulator and since the beginning consist only modern weapons and aircrafts. EECH is not "old good game" but some living product that not even going to fall into oblivion, and it's obvious for me that technical base should be updated as well. my only opinion - not to add any aircrafts, weapons and other systems that not get into the service yet, even if they tested successfully. balance will be not a problem in this case - current US and Russian aircrafts quite similar, some differences in weapons but it's not enough to broke gameplay.
my question is - should we close game into time borders?
and it will be easier to get public opinion if you make poll with proper options.

IMO:
Balance and timeframe should be handled on the campaign level.
Let EECH provide as much choice in flying hardware as it can (even with multiple flyable helo variants), and let the mission builders decide if they are creating a modern or an old scenario, or anything.

I love the evolution of EECH, and most of the improvements are in the direction of reality. In the real world, currently we can see huge variety of scenarios and weapons used.

I am against any kind of roadblock.

I think there should be a degree of caution when upgrading specifications to new capabilities - as we saw with a previous major GWUT change, these made a significant difference to the playability and there was also the possibility of having to redesign at least a couple of maps/campaigns because suddenly everything was in range of everything else before you even take off.

As for balance, the maps/campaigns were at least originally designed to be balanced for the specs of the aircraft as they were implemented in the game back then so any significant changes in capability need to be offset on the opposing side.
I see a remark in the 1.15.2 thread about removing the Comanche radar which seems a bit of a huge change, or did I misunderstand? If not, I would hope it's switchable!

There will always be a tradeoff between realism and playability and whilst realism is good, I don't want to lose playability.

I think what you have all said is probably at the heart of my thinking. It's ok to add new/upgraded weapons and aircraft. But most of the campaigns are still based on the original capabilities.

The ground units have also not had much of an improvement.

I would like to see a roadmap of what the community would like to be done, and then as modders come along, they can pick things from it that they would like to have, and work on those?

For example, modern warzones are not just US or Russia. There's no representation of Nato forces for example, and a lot of the real 'blue' forces have a mix of ground units and capabilities. That is a long way off for this sim anyway.

I just see the potential the sim has, but I think it needs some planning or intent for what can and should be done.

Some new Campaigns would be good. Other than that, i'm pretty happy with how this Sim is progressing at the moment.

Of course it should be modernized!, but that does not means that the old weapons should be cut out.

IMO, what I as being someone that considers himself a "purist" regarding Orders of Battle and realism on the battlefield (much more than avionics or flight models for example) and a bit in line with what messyhead said here:


What I would like to see in the future for EECH is:

- More units, specially ground units. For example I would like to have T-72s or even older T-55 tanks in EECH. The only Red MBT is the T-80 which isn't used by most armed forces that we would realistically have in most EECH maps. The same should also be applied to Blue forces, where for example a M-60 or even Leopard 1 and 2 tanks would IMO be welcome as well as some wheeled APC/IFV such as the LAV-25 or Stryker and of course not only limited to those ones. IMO, a T-72 should be "top priority".
Regarding air units, I would like to have added in EECH some Chinese helicopters like the Z-9 (assault)and Z-10 (gunship). They would be great to have in the great looking Taiwan map. IMO, the F-15 or Tornado would also be great to have as air assets for the Blue side.


- Regarding air units, I would like to see three things happening:
1- Assign more helicopter types as "Assault"! Currently only the UH-60 (Blue) and the Mi-24 (Red) are considered Assault Helicopters which means that if one of those two sides loses all of their UH-60s or Mi-24s that side will instantaneously loose the campaign. I can't understand why can't a Mi-17 also be considered an assault helicopter (it's even armed with rockets) or why can't a Chinook also perform assault missions? Resuming any troop carrying capable helicopter should be able to perform assault missions.

2- A bit in line with point 1-, I would like to have a parameter when editing campaigns where the editor could choose for a certain campaign to enable (current/default) or disable the trigger that dictates that if one side loses all its assault helicopters that it would lose. IMO would be great to give the ability to a player to be able continue to play (and conquer all campaign objectives) even if the opposing side looses all its assault helicopters.

3- Probably not so important as other points mentioned and probably the hardest to implement but since we're asking I would like to have side mounted defensive machine guns for helicopters such as the Chinook.


- I would also like to have the capability for ground units to capture ground objectives and airbases (and not only capturable assault helicopters).


- Finally there's another thing that I would like to have in EECH (from a campaign editor "perspective") which is the ability to control which units will respawn as reinforcements during a campaign. For example I noticed that in my campaign (Cuba Libre 1 and 2) that sometimes an odd Comanche will spawn, despite not having Comanches present on the map. I'm also sure that if the Red side had reinforcements in those campaigns (Cuba Libre 1 and 2) that I would also see Mi-28s or Ka-52s spawning as reinforcements which is something that I don't desire.
So and resuming, what I would like to have is either a parameter that allows the campaign editor to choose what units will respawn or alternatively a parameter that will only respawn units that are present on the map since the beginning of the campaign.

AWESOME thealx!!
If you were a girl I would kiss you!

I thought you guys switched the K to L and the L to R. So the R is the new laser version. Huh.

I'm planned to show you view from the inside of Hind's cargo bay with mounted side machine gun but I'm scared of further compliments....

L is L as before.

I promise to not compliment you if you show us the Hind's cargo bay with the mounted side machine gun.

So don't be scared