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#3945203 - 04/27/14 09:42 AM Timmmmmberrrrrr!!!!  
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I guess not all are created equal? For my previous pit builds, I just picked up some cheap timber from the local B&Q. I work mostly with 18mm MDF and use the timber as a structure support -- I don't join MDF-to-MDF so I need a bit of timber to strengthen the build. However, it always bothered me that the wood I had seemed very soft. A quick jab with a screwdriver makes an indentation, heck even using my fingernail sometimes is enough!

Anyone here know more about types of timber? I think what I've been getting is called CLS timber, kiln-dried. Looking at the B&Q website, they have spruce and redwood too.

I need to modify my current pit and need stronger, harder timber for better support and rigidity.


- Ice
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#3945215 - 04/27/14 11:20 AM Re: Timmmmmberrrrrr!!!! [Re: - Ice]  
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I think I know the yellow stuff you are talking about. I built an 8ftx3ft desk using it, with 18mm MDF on top. Is very sturdy, and I can stand on the desk safely. Don't know anything about timber, but it worked for me.


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#3945234 - 04/27/14 12:27 PM Re: Timmmmmberrrrrr!!!! [Re: - Ice]  
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Appalachian foothills in Virgi...
I'm not sure about wood varieties where you are, but here it sounds like you're describing white or yellow pine timber. Primary wood used with interior construction of floor/ceiling joists, framing up walls, etc. Very easy to cut, drill and soaks up paint like a sponge. It is soft but since its primary intent is stick building a house or framing out a room; it gets its strength from multiple pieces all being tied in with nails/screws and sheeting material. Relatively cheap compared to the hardwoods.

I've seen them used in pit construction and the 2x4 boards look large but i'm sure are quite sturdy. I would think a key is cross-bracing with other rigid structures of the pit, like the base, to increase the strength.

If you don't mind spending the money and want harder woods that have more strength and less bulk, I'd suggest Poplar if they have it in your region. Cheaper than finer 'finish' woods but you could use slimmer pieces and get the same strength. I like the look of poplar but most folks paint it as the wood color varies a lot but always seems to have greenish cast to it.
Types of Wood for Woodworking

A cheaper option than hardwood and structurally stronger than MDF is a good grade plywood that is adequately braced or cross-tied in whatever type of box construction you're making. I'm a big fan of recycling/re-purposing things (a necessity when the wife and I were much younger and poorer) and I've found some decent pieces of both lumber and plywood in either yard sales (tag sales?) or a local non-profit store selling recycled materials. With a sim-pit you won't likely need many board feet of a hardwood or full sheets of plywood....and it is a cheaper way to experiment.

Didn't mean to get so long winded. My experience comes from working construction with my dad as a teen and many house repairs, re-models. There are some true craftsman here with more skills and knowledge than i, but I hope this helps a bit. Good luck,
Derek

#3945478 - 04/27/14 11:32 PM Re: Timmmmmberrrrrr!!!! [Re: - Ice]  
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Like I said, I'm using it to "pull" my MDF boards together and I'm just worried that with the timber being soft, it might not hold very well. I've over-engineered my pit so it is quite robust but I was planning to build smaller side consoles and the new size makes me worried about its stability/rigidity or its ability to resist my energetic attempts at dogfighting. As the new side consoles will be about 1/5th the size of my current one, I don't have the space to "brace" it as much as I would want.

This is how my current side consoles look like. The timber used for bracing can be clearly seen:



My plan is to reduce that to maybe 1/3rd size on the right side to accommodate a TM WH stick base plus space for the mouse but the left side would roughly be the size of the TM WH throttle base.

I don't think plywood is an option for me. Unless I'm mistaken, it can't be used in place of my timber support and the smoother finish of MDF makes it easier to work with.


- Ice
#3946077 - 04/28/14 10:33 PM Re: Timmmmmberrrrrr!!!! [Re: - Ice]  
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Appalachian foothills in Virgi...
Whoa, that looks like that would be very sturdy. Are you using any kind of bracing at corners? Once its all constructed (connected) those cross pieces should easily handle the weight of any controls.
Nice design and I feel a little goofy making such a long post above when you obviously have some skills.

Regards,
Derek

#3946099 - 04/28/14 11:07 PM Re: Timmmmmberrrrrr!!!! [Re: - Ice]  
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It is sturdy, yes. No bracing at the corners and it does handle the weight of the controls. However, if I grab hold of the forward edge of the left console, it wiggles a bit, maybe a millimeter or two. The right console is a bit more stable. I suspect that the wiggle is due to the screw being able to move about due to the soft timber I used. When I tighten the screw, it only digs deeper into the wood and I can only imagine that it's just warping/pulling the other end towards it rather than tightening the two sections together.

That is why I am asking whether there is a way to identify harder types of timber. I suppose I can glue everything together and make it sturdy but I need to be able to assemble/disassemble the pit every now and again (moving house, wife redecorating, etc.) so the side consoles will definitely have to come off.


- Ice
#3946334 - 04/29/14 11:12 AM Re: Timmmmmberrrrrr!!!! [Re: - Ice]  
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Appalachian foothills in Virgi...
For the joints you have (I suspect) of horizontal wood bracing for the slabs of MDF, to get rid of any wriggle you'd need to use some type of internal bracing that is either Glued/Screwed or use machine screw threaded inserts. If you're screwing into the MDF, you can only tighten that down so much before it strips out. There is a long thread on thewayiplay.com by a fella named "ericleroi" who does some amazing work with MDF to build consoles, cabinets, simpits....He would be a much better teacher than i for bracing ideas.
The MDF is a great surface/facing material but is really limited in terms of structural strength. Especially if you want to make it modular and dis-assemble occasionally. Thats where the threaded inserts or interior metal "L" brackets with machine screws may be helpful.
Derek

#3946439 - 04/29/14 02:13 PM Re: Timmmmmberrrrrr!!!! [Re: - Ice]  
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If you don't want to go to the expense of a "real" threaded insert, you can use T-Nuts as well. I used those throughout the Series One cockpit build. For the big 1/4-20 ones, you can get them for about $7.50 for a box of 100. There's no reason you couldn't use a #10 or #8 though. Put a little dab of epoxy on them and they won't pop out.

g.


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#3946461 - 04/29/14 02:34 PM Re: Timmmmmberrrrrr!!!! [Re: - Ice]  
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I don't think he'd want to pay the airfare and the gestapo treatment in the airport for a few nuts n bolts wink Or maybe Ice is into that sort of thing wink ?

I just used 2x2 pine or similar for my lanc pit and 10mm ply or chip board but I had the space to fix it all to a wall which helped. Can you not put a few thin diagonal supports in and attach the whole thing on a foot board that you could put your chair on as a grnd anchor?


"What join the Regiment.....?! nah I'll run them over n if that doesn't work then I'll shoot at them,cpl"

"But I'm a lover not a fighter cpl."
#3946518 - 04/29/14 03:25 PM Re: Timmmmmberrrrrr!!!! [Re: - Ice]  
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Sorry guys but I think I lost the plot here a bit.

I won't be using the MDF+screws for support, that is why I am looking for better timber. MudPuppy, can you narrow it down to which page he is talking about re: bracing?

Gene, I am guessing the T-nuts is for going THROUGH whatever wood type and using it to hold both bits of wood in place?

50sqn, totally lost regarding your post, bro.


- Ice
#3946569 - 04/29/14 05:03 PM Re: Timmmmmberrrrrr!!!! [Re: - Ice]  
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Appalachian foothills in Virgi...
Start at page 22, I think thst where I saw it this morning. Sorry if I added to the haze. Work is kicking my behind this week and I'm quite jealous of you having the time to work on this hobby.
G'luck,
Derek

#3947076 - 04/30/14 02:35 PM Re: Timmmmmberrrrrr!!!! [Re: - Ice]  
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f15sim Offline
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Ice, yeah that's the idea.
g.


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