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#3944031 - 04/24/14 06:41 PM Feel free - fly a French SPAD  
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Olham Offline
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Today I did, what I had in mind since a long time: I enlisted with a French Escadrille which would use the SPAD VII and SPAD XIII.
So I picked Esc 37, which were based at La Noblette Ferme in June 1917.

Coming from the Albatros, the SPAD wasn't difficult to switch to. But it felt more powerful, and it could dive fast and sturdy -
it gave me the feeling of freedom. We could decide wether to pick a fight or not. When we took some Albatros D.II from Jasta 26 on,
I dominated the fight all the time.

My opponent wasn't flying bad, I must say, and so curiosity made me activate Labels. He was the future Herr Meier! I shot his engine
up enough, so he had to put his craft down in no-man's-land. What a first victory - see you again, Hermann!




Vice-President of the BOC (Barmy OFFers Club)
Member of the 'Albatros Aviators Club' - "We know how to die with Style!"
#3944060 - 04/24/14 07:32 PM Re: Feel free - fly a French SPAD [Re: Olham]  
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Nefaro Offline
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I like the SPADs.

My only complaint is that the default viewpoint is a bit too far forward in the cockpit. When I look down, it's like I'm sitting on the forward edge of the seat.

Zooming out somewhat mitigates this, but I don't like having it zoomed out too far because it gets more "fisheye" the further you do so and that can sometimes give me a headache when glancing about with TrackIR.

Last edited by Nefaro; 04/24/14 07:34 PM.

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#3944065 - 04/24/14 07:38 PM Re: Feel free - fly a French SPAD [Re: Olham]  
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corsaire31 Offline
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I like the XIII ! On the bad side, Spads are also well known for the limited forward visibility.


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#3944078 - 04/24/14 07:52 PM Re: Feel free - fly a French SPAD [Re: Olham]  
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Shiloh Offline
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Well done Olham! I'm more of a turn-fighter myself and I find that the Spad doesn't play to my strengths. She is sturdy as hell though.

#3944423 - 04/25/14 02:22 PM Re: Feel free - fly a French SPAD [Re: Olham]  
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Nefaro Offline
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Have you guys noticed the SPAD VII rolls back to the right really bad, when it slows down in a left turn with some rudder? I also notice that a sustained right turn requires a little bit of left rudder because it's trying to roll further right.

I know we hate talking about FMs, but this was the problem with the Albatros FMs that were recently fixed, and I've always seen it in the SPAD too.

I only recently started flying a SPAD VII again and it reminded me to come mention it.

Last edited by Nefaro; 04/25/14 02:23 PM.

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#3944437 - 04/25/14 02:47 PM Re: Feel free - fly a French SPAD [Re: Olham]  
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Olham Offline
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Nefaro, the SPAD FM reminded me of the Albatros too.
But maybe that's why I got to grips with it quite well. I think it is best to forget,
what you think the aircraft should behave like - and simply find out what it really wants.
I found the SPAD a pleasure to ride - but to turn fight in a SPAD needs a good feeling
for the aircraft, and I am still learning to improve that.

The most important thing is always: forward energy/airspeed.
Gain some, and you can do a lot more - lose it, and it gets tricky or even dangerous.


Vice-President of the BOC (Barmy OFFers Club)
Member of the 'Albatros Aviators Club' - "We know how to die with Style!"
#3944445 - 04/25/14 03:03 PM Re: Feel free - fly a French SPAD [Re: Olham]  
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Nefaro Offline
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Originally Posted By: Olham
Nefaro, the SPAD FM reminded me of the Albatros too.
But maybe that's why I got to grips with it quite well. I think it is best to forget,
what you think the aircraft should behave like - and simply find out what it really wants.
I found the SPAD a pleasure to ride - but to turn fight in a SPAD needs a good feeling
for the aircraft, and I am still learning to improve that.

The most important thing is always: forward energy/airspeed.
Gain some, and you can do a lot more - lose it, and it gets tricky or even dangerous.


I suppose.. but it acts like a rotary-engined aircraft in this respect, and it was admittedly an issue with the Albatros scouts so it doesn't hurt to inquire.


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#3944448 - 04/25/14 03:06 PM Re: Feel free - fly a French SPAD [Re: Olham]  
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Olham Offline
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I will fly it more the next days, and will report more.
But so far I didn't notice any bad behaviour.
You must remember one thing in the Albatros as well as the SPAD - don't pull the stick
back fully and hard at once. Pull it 2/3, and the rest a bit more carefully.
Also use some rudder to get into turns, or to counter undesired rolling.


Vice-President of the BOC (Barmy OFFers Club)
Member of the 'Albatros Aviators Club' - "We know how to die with Style!"
#3944454 - 04/25/14 03:13 PM Re: Feel free - fly a French SPAD [Re: Olham]  
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Nefaro Offline
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Originally Posted By: Olham
I will fly it more the next days, and will report more.
But so far I didn't notice any bad behaviour.
You must remember one thing in the Albatros as well as the SPAD - don't pull the stick
back fully and hard at once. Pull it 2/3, and the rest a bit more carefully.
Also use some rudder to get into turns, or to counter undesired rolling.


I've had to use a lot of rudder in some left turns, to keep it from rolling back to the right. This is what I'm referring to.

It also wants to roll further right in a right turn, and it can require opposite rudder in such cases to keep it from doing so.

Basically, it wants to roll right and it's more exaggerated during sustained turns, especially to the left. I didn't think this was normal behavior for an inline engine?


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#3944474 - 04/25/14 03:57 PM Re: Feel free - fly a French SPAD [Re: Nefaro]  
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Creaghorn Offline
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N�rnberg Frankonia
Originally Posted By: Nefaro
I like the SPADs.

My only complaint is that the default viewpoint is a bit too far forward in the cockpit. When I look down, it's like I'm sitting on the forward edge of the seat.

Zooming out somewhat mitigates this, but I don't like having it zoomed out too far because it gets more "fisheye" the further you do so and that can sometimes give me a headache when glancing about with TrackIR.


No need for zooming out. When sitting in your cockpit, lean forward, recenter TrackIR and lean back again to your normal sitting position. Problem solved.

#3944475 - 04/25/14 03:58 PM Re: Feel free - fly a French SPAD [Re: Olham]  
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Leaf85 Offline
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Calgary, AB. Canada
I enjoy flying the SPAD VII (and XIII) in both RoF and WOFF. My careers tend to last longer while flying SPADs; certainly moreso than my latest foray with the EIII LOL. One thing I love about the SPAD is its ability to break off and make a dash for it if things get to be too sticky.

Kind regards,
Dave


Currently dabbling in;
WOTR/BoF, Naval Action! also Run 8,
IL2BOS/BOM smile

"Once again we have failed to die."-- old naval toast
#3944489 - 04/25/14 04:14 PM Re: Feel free - fly a French SPAD [Re: Nefaro]  
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Robert_Wiggins Offline
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Originally Posted By: Nefaro
Originally Posted By: Olham
I will fly it more the next days, and will report more.
But so far I didn't notice any bad behaviour.
You must remember one thing in the Albatros as well as the SPAD - don't pull the stick
back fully and hard at once. Pull it 2/3, and the rest a bit more carefully.
Also use some rudder to get into turns, or to counter undesired rolling.


I've had to use a lot of rudder in some left turns, to keep it from rolling back to the right. This is what I'm referring to.

It also wants to roll further right in a right turn, and it can require opposite rudder in such cases to keep it from doing so.

Basically, it wants to roll right and it's more exaggerated during sustained turns, especially to the left. I didn't think this was normal behavior for an inline engine?


Olham's point about being gently on stick pull (up to 3/4) and it will make a difference. Fast jerky pulls will cause problems.


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#3944490 - 04/25/14 04:16 PM Re: Feel free - fly a French SPAD [Re: Creaghorn]  
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Olham Offline
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Originally Posted By: Creaghorn
No need for zooming out. When sitting in your cockpit, lean forward, recenter TrackIR
and lean back again to your normal sitting position. Problem solved.

That's one good trick. But it must be repeated after each "Center" command.
I sometimes do that in height: I crouch and press "center" - then I sit straight and am sitting higher.

If you look at historical photos, you will notice that the pilots were really sitting very close to the windshield -
see this picture of a SPAD XIII.
Like it or not - those were the combat conditions in a SPAD.




Vice-President of the BOC (Barmy OFFers Club)
Member of the 'Albatros Aviators Club' - "We know how to die with Style!"
#3944538 - 04/25/14 05:52 PM Re: Feel free - fly a French SPAD [Re: Olham]  
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Polovski Offline
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The eyepoint is in the correct place. As per that picture and others - windscreen was very close to the pilot's face.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#3944553 - 04/25/14 06:30 PM Re: Feel free - fly a French SPAD [Re: Polovski]  
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Rick_Rawlings Offline
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Originally Posted By: Polovski
The eyepoint is in the correct place. As per that picture and others - windscreen was very close to the pilot's face.


No wonder Nunguesser broke his palate and his jaw a couple of times! He smashed it on the dashboard!!! biggrin


The older I get, the more I realize I don't need to be Han, Luke or Leia. I'm just happy to be rebel scum...
#3944562 - 04/25/14 06:47 PM Re: Feel free - fly a French SPAD [Re: Rick_Rawlings]  
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Hasse Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rick_Rawlings

No wonder Nunguesser broke his palate and his jaw a couple of times! He smashed it on the dashboard!!! biggrin


That happened to countless pilots of WW1 aircraft. Cockpits were usually very cramped and safety measures were practically non-existent.


"Upon my word I've had as much excitement on a car as in the air, especially since the R.F.C. have had women drivers."

James McCudden, Five Years in the Royal Flying Corps
#3944608 - 04/25/14 08:41 PM Re: Feel free - fly a French SPAD [Re: Olham]  
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Polovski Offline
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Yes any kind of bumpy landing could give you a nasty whack in the SPAD I'm sure - maybe they wore their straps very tight wink.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#3944631 - 04/25/14 09:57 PM Re: Feel free - fly a French SPAD [Re: Olham]  
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Olham Offline
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Straps tight, and then, on a crash landing, Otto Fuchs placed his left arm on the dashboard
in front of his face. That was in an Albatros, and it helped to prevent the worst.
But if you look at MvR's death photos, you will notice a rectangular stance in his face,
as if someone hit him with a huge blacksmith's hammer.
That came from one of the machine gun rears in the Fokker Dr.I.
Although they were padded with a small leather cushion, that could not prevent the hard impact.
All teeth were slain out that side.


Vice-President of the BOC (Barmy OFFers Club)
Member of the 'Albatros Aviators Club' - "We know how to die with Style!"
#3944656 - 04/25/14 11:40 PM Re: Feel free - fly a French SPAD [Re: Nefaro]  
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KodiakJac Offline
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Originally Posted By: Nefaro
Have you guys noticed the SPAD VII rolls back to the right really bad, when it slows down in a left turn with some rudder? I also notice that a sustained right turn requires a little bit of left rudder because it's trying to roll further right.


That would be torque from a prop turning counter clockwise. More pronounced in rotary engines due to the rotating engine mass, but it should also be present on the planes with the more powerful inline engines. By WWII the prop torque of inline engines was huge and planes like the Bf 109 turned much better to the left and the Typhoon turned much better to the right. The sudden flip in the opposite direction of prop rotation is once again prop torque as you approach stall speed in a turn or climb (any stall condition) and lose forward momentum. Something would be wrong with the FM's if prop torque weren't modeled in proportion to the power of the engine (more in a Spad, almost non-existent in a BE2c). Well done, OBD cheers


Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up!
Can you say "JABO!" thumbsup
#3944672 - 04/26/14 12:10 AM Re: Feel free - fly a French SPAD [Re: Olham]  
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Olham Offline
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I would love to see more simmers trying more seriously to master the craft they are given
at enlistment with a squadron; instead of claiming the "best fighting machine" they could
get, for piling claims and victories.
After all, the men who were sent to a BE2c squadron could not say: "No thanks, Sir, I want
to be a fighter pilot and shoot down many aircraft." They had to make the best of it.
Reality seems often more grey than technicolor.

When I learned that my Albatros was not the "wonder-weapon" anymore, that it seemed to
have been in OFF, I had to "step more lightly". I now try to be rather careful about my
own life, instead of trying to wipe out others'.
Still learning my lessons of modesty and discipline though - no end in sight.

There is still more than enough chance for victories, when I wait for the right moment.
But I cannot fly around like a terminator no more.
I am now cut down to size - if I'm good, to the size of one of those aviators.
Not anyone outstanding. Just one of them.
What an honour that would be, if they'd accept me!

We want to fly as realistic as possible, cause anything else would make us feel ashamed, right?
Okay then: welcome to reality! Here is your plane.
The feller before you died in it's seat; that's why it is free.
Try to serve your country - the women in the factories worked hard night shifts building this
fine aircraft for you. Don't wreck it in an outburst of false heroism!


Vice-President of the BOC (Barmy OFFers Club)
Member of the 'Albatros Aviators Club' - "We know how to die with Style!"
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