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#3943272 - 04/23/14 12:46 PM Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death  
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One of the major events that occurred late in the war was the near total destruction of Iraqi forces retreating from Kuwait. The carnage on the "Highway of Death" is cited as one of the primary reasons the war was soon brought to a close because the Coalition thought international support would waiver with continued decimation of the Iraqi Army. Senior military leaders agree that it was important to destroy Saddam's retreating military hardware. Later investigation would show only a quarter or less of the vehicles were military, however the others were trucks and vehicles stuffed with war loot confiscated from Kuwait. The death tolls vary widely, but I come down on the side of those who think it numbered in the hundreds instead of thousands. If the vehicle in front of me and behind me blows up, I think I'm just going to high tail it across the desert. Controversy aside, the attacks on Highway 80 (and the lesser reported Highway 8) were incredible examples of the devastation concentrated airpower can have on pent up forces.

On the night of February 26, an E-8 JSTARS noted columns of vehicles departing Kuwait, retreating north toward Iraq.





The first aircraft on scene were A-6 Intruders that spotted the six mile long column running the length of Highway 80. They bombed the lead and trail sections of the column with GATOR anti-tank mines to prevent the column from moving. From then on, it wasn't much more than a static bombing range for Coalition aircraft of every type.







Heading for Highway 80...



The assembled Coalition fleet in the Gulf...



For my strike, I used CBU-87/B instead of GATOR...







Picking up the coastline and some vehicles on the radar...



In hot!



Soon we have the column burning, which makes for an easy reference point...







My wingman doing some damage with his Snakeyes...







Cont...



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#3943275 - 04/23/14 12:47 PM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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An OV-10 loiters and throws white phosphorus rockets at the enemy column (framerate killer!)...



Care must be taken not to get too low because there are enemy air defense units in the mix...





With the initial strike completed, the entirety of Coalition air power will hit the column for two days, destroying 1500 to 2000 vehicles...





I next take up an A-10 to do some damage. Upon arrival on-scene, I order my wingman to make the first attack and he drops CBU on the column making it easy for my subsequent attacks...









Hmm..stay in my truck or leave my truck?



Leave my truck...



The airspace over the column is positively packed with Coalition aircraft. OV-10s, A-10s, F-4s, A-6s, A-7s, AV-8Bs, and others scream in from all directions...





Deconfliction is a bit of a problem and disasters almost occur..











We keep repeating passes until we run out of bombs..







The temptation to drift ever lower during your attacks is a problem. Soon you find yourself down in small arms territory and you expose yourself to a lot of fire...



The targets are endless...



We switch to guns, which in the SF2 A-10A aren't very effective. They seem to have more bullet drop and less of a "laser" fire feel to them compared to the DCS A-10C. Lazing around at low altitude trying to pick of targets with the gun seems hazardous so we pack up and head home.







I can't imagine what it must have been like to have been in that convoy for those two days. Once the bombs started to drop, I can't imagine many Iraqis decided to stay with their vehicles. Given the choice of showing up without their vehicles in Iraq and the consequences of that though, maybe some had no real choice. It indicates what a callous disregard Saddam Hussein had for his own forces that he would even put them in that position.

BeachAV8R



#3943304 - 04/23/14 01:53 PM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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Great AAR as usual !thumbsup I wouldn't have liked either to be on the receiving end...


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#3943314 - 04/23/14 02:07 PM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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To be honest, this is one mission I wouldn't fly on a computer. There was very little military value to it, and the pictures speak for themselves.

#3943321 - 04/23/14 02:28 PM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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Well, I don't much understand the difference between flying in a mass formation of B-17s in a PC sim and dropping bombs fairly indiscriminately on Berlin and performing strikes on massed Iraqi combatants (lets be clear - these weren't civilians, they were combatants fleeing in appropriated vehicles). The pictures do indeed speak for themselves, I see a lot of military hardware and ammunition destroyed in that column. As well as the psychological value of sending a message that cross border incursions would not be in Iraq's best interest going forward.

BeachAV8R



#3943349 - 04/23/14 04:09 PM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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I really don't want to turn your thread political here and respect your opinion. For me it seems these soldiers (and let's not get into the question of all of them were soldiers) were not actively enganged in combat, relativley defenseless, and shot like turkeys while retreating from Kuwait in fullfilment of the UN Resolution deadline. Alternative course of action, for example, could have been to make sure they were leaving the vehicles behind and fleeing on foot, or keeping them contained and capturing them with ground forces.

But to indiscriminatly bomb the hell out of a traffic jam for two days with no real counter fire... that's different from Berlin 1944, where there were no other options and the crews had to go trough heavy defenses. If you have an enemy at gunpoint, under superior firepower, you should allow him to surrender.

But atop it all, I just don't think it makes a good combat flight sim mission. Where's the challenge in what's basically a bombing range setup?

#3943357 - 04/23/14 04:38 PM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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RS, I respect your views and agree with your posts 99% of the time. I guess we will have to disagree on this one. It's just fun in a flight sim…that's all. There should be no "moral/political correctness" comments in an AAR thread. In all flight sims we blow stuff up and kill pixelized human beings regularly…goes without saying, and a blob of pixels harmlessly retreating or otherwise, shouldn't be an issue when sharing an AAR.


Nice write up and screens Beach! thumbsup


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#3943362 - 04/23/14 04:42 PM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
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Originally Posted By: RSColonel_131st
But atop it all, I just don't think it makes a good combat flight sim mission. Where's the challenge in what's basically a bombing range setup?


Maybe you should play the mission before commenting. The convoys are adequately equipped with AA vehicles that will shred you if you linger at low altitudes. Fly a couple miles too far to the north and there is an Iraqi SA-2 site that will shoot you down.

I think looking at history with a coulda shoulda perspective is useful, but in the moment I think it is understandable. Consider that the night before a SCUD missile had hit a U.S. barracks in Dharhan killing 27 U.S. troops and wounding 98. So the claim that Iraq was the victim here as they were retreating in accordance with the UN Resolution is a bit of a stretch. In this clip from the History Channel back when it was a decent channel..you can hear what I think are valid thoughts on the whole thing by the guys that were there and that made those decisions (Lt. Col Krause and Gen. Chuck Horner)..



"Put some hate in your heart.."

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BeachAV8R

Last edited by BeachAV8R; 04/23/14 04:42 PM.


#3943578 - 04/23/14 11:52 PM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
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Originally Posted By: RSColonel_131st
I really don't want to turn your thread political here and respect your opinion. For me it seems these soldiers (and let's not get into the question of all of them were soldiers) were not actively enganged in combat, relativley defenseless, and shot like turkeys while retreating from Kuwait in fullfilment of the UN Resolution deadline. Alternative course of action, for example, could have been to make sure they were leaving the vehicles behind and fleeing on foot, or keeping them contained and capturing them with ground forces.

But to indiscriminatly bomb the hell out of a traffic jam for two days with no real counter fire... that's different from Berlin 1944, where there were no other options and the crews had to go trough heavy defenses. If you have an enemy at gunpoint, under superior firepower, you should allow him to surrender.

But atop it all, I just don't think it makes a good combat flight sim mission. Where's the challenge in what's basically a bombing range setup?




Normally I would agree with your statement I hate to see unnecessary casualties
But as I understand it, the reason was to reduce Saddams ability to wage war on his neighbours
At one point the brass figured Iraq barely had enough equipment left to defend them self's
So they called a halt to the carnage.

PS, Still hoping for a land warfare AAR featuring SB.

Last edited by marko1231123; 04/23/14 11:55 PM.
#3943752 - 04/24/14 12:42 PM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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I agree with RS colonel on this... there was other possibilities than this sad and awful turkey shot feast just to make a point... and explaining it along with other types of historic carnage just don't cut it IMHO. It was and will stay as a shame day for the US forces, just ask any one [non american] on the question.

Last edited by SHar82; 04/24/14 12:49 PM.

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#3943832 - 04/24/14 02:24 PM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: SHar82]  
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Originally Posted By: SHar82
It was and will stay as a shame day for the US forces, just ask any one [non american] on the question.


OK - do we have any Kuwaitis on the message board that would like to chime in with their opinion?

popcorn

BeachAV8R



#3943924 - 04/24/14 04:05 PM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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Originally Posted By: BeachAV8R
Originally Posted By: SHar82
It was and will stay as a shame day for the US forces, just ask any one [non american] on the question.


OK - do we have any Kuwaitis on the message board that would like to chime in with their opinion?

popcorn

BeachAV8R


+1

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#3943958 - 04/24/14 04:59 PM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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Excellent report!

Thank you

#3944618 - 04/25/14 09:11 PM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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Great AAR, and great screenshots to go with it.

This seems to be a fairly well balanced article on the event:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_of_Death

This part seems like a decent analysis:

The death toll from the attack remains unknown and controversial. British journalist Robert Fisk claimed to have "lost count of the Iraqi corpses crammed into the smouldering wreckage or slumped face down in the sand" at the main site and to see hundreds of corpses strewn up the road all the way to the Iraqi border. American journalist Bob Drogin reported seeing "scores" of dead soldiers "in and around the vehicles, mangled and bloated in the drifting desert sands." Some independent estimates go as high as 10,000 or more casualties (even "tens of thousands"), but this is a highly unlikely number. A 2003 study by the Project on Defense Alternatives (PDA) estimated fewer than 10,000 people rode in the cut-off main caravan; and most simply left their vehicles when the bombing started to escape through the desert or into the nearby swamps where some died from their wounds and some were later taken prisoner. According to PDA, the often repeated low estimate of the numbers killed in the attack is 200-300 reported by journalist Michael Kelly (who personally counted 37 bodies), but a minimum death toll of at least 500-600 seems more plausible.

And also:

Many Iraqi forces, however, successfully escaped across the Euphrates river, and the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency estimated that upwards of 70,000 to 80,000 troops from defeated divisions in Kuwait might have fled into Basra, evading capture.


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#3944678 - 04/26/14 12:24 AM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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Indeed. I'm sure the truth is somewhere between the two extremes. One would expect possibly hundreds of dead just on the initial bombing run. I mean..how many tightly spaced vehicles can you destroy with two Intruders dropping CBUs? Within the first few strikes, I doubt many Iraqis were keen to try to wait it out.

Whatever the case - it is a historical event of significance. The one-sidedness of it is cited as being a major contributing factor in the cessation of offensive operations. It was the exclamation point of the whole operation. (Well, if you were Bush Jr./Cheney/Rumsfield/Wolfowitz it was more of a semicolon...ugh..not a fan of the follow up war)..

I have no problem if people don't want to fly military flight sims or blow up virtual people. Zero problem with it at all. But parsing the difference between historical missions such as the raid on Pearl Harbor, or the bombing of Dresden, or dropping napalm on a hill full of Vietcong, seems a bit like debating how many angels can dance on the pin of a needle. Warfare is horrible. The human cost is horrible. The economic cost is horrible. As a father, I can't imagine having my son go to a foreign battlefield and then have him not come home. American, European, Middle-Eastern..mothers and fathers grieve the same. I certainly wouldn't want to be the person who has to set the red line in the sand for what we can and cannot recreate in our computer simulations.

BeachAV8R





#3944684 - 04/26/14 12:52 AM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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Well arguably it wasn't much different to the closing of the Falaise Gap some fifty years earlier.

http://www.canadaatwar.ca/photos/falaise/falaiseescapecorridor.jpg

Last edited by Gibsonm; 04/26/14 01:21 AM. Reason: added pic link and updated time gap

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#3944687 - 04/26/14 12:58 AM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: Gibsonm]  
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Originally Posted By: Gibsonm
Well arguably it wasn't much different to the closing of the Falaise Gap some forty years earlier.

Wow..interesting reading. Pretty valiant effort there by the Poles on Hill 262. Thanks for the history lesson..I hadn't heard of that particular moment in WW2.

BeachAV8R



#3944696 - 04/26/14 01:32 AM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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I understand your point, Beach. But really what we want in a videogame? a challenge!... not a mission where you have pretty much no other "challenge" than destroying the most vehicules (and virtual troops) possible, remembering that in reality this was a shameful slaughtering day. I don't get the point to recreate these very controversial events where very bad/criminal decisions was taken resulting in a tragic slaughtering of thousands of very real human live.

At least in a mission between thousands of B17 and hundreds of German fighters over Germany, it was a challenge for each side just to stay alive.

Last edited by SHar82; 04/26/14 01:36 AM.

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#3944718 - 04/26/14 02:33 AM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: SHar82]  
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Originally Posted By: SHar82
I understand your point, Beach. But really what we want in a videogame? a challenge!... not a mission where you have pretty much no other "challenge" than destroying the most vehicules (and virtual troops) possible, remembering that in reality this was a shameful slaughtering day. I don't get the point to recreate these very controversial events where very bad/criminal decisions was taken resulting in a tragic slaughtering of thousands of very real human live.


Have you played the mission? Have you?

Here it is: http://www.mudspike.com/Road2HellA10A.zip

It isn't a cakewalk. Particularly if you get down below 3,000. On the trip TO the target area you will get shot at by SA-2s. As a matter of fact take a close look at THIS screenshot from the report. Do you see that faint smoke trail at the top of the screen? That was an SA-2 that went over our flight.

Your caveat that I should remember this was a "shameful slaughtering day" is a qualifier that I don't subscribe to. I don't believe that for one second. The leaders of Iraq during that 48 hour period remind me of those videos you've seen of some thug beating the hell out of somebody, but as soon as the cops arrive they throw a few more punches then throw their hands up in the air to claim they are out of the fight. Same deal. Iraq had a chance to abide by the UN mandate to leave Kuwait, when that time passed, all bets were off the table and they deserved the ass kicking they received. Once things started to go pear shaped for them, they tried to put their hands up in the air "who us?"... I'm glad the Coalition leaders decided to further degrade their forces - it probably saved lives in 2003, even though I'm not a fan of that invasion.

So you can ride around on your high-horse and judge what military sims you feel meet your moral bar. I guess killing Nazi's is OK right? Vietcong - or was that a war of occupation? Argentinian soldiers in the Falklands fair game? Or British? You'll have to pick sides to stay on the right side of your moral compass I'm afraid. Or is it not nationality..is it numbers we are talking about? Kill a squad is OK, but we'll cut off the carnage at a company? Are surprise attacks OK? Can I sink merchant ships when playing Silent Hunter? Do I have to hang around and rescue survivors?

I'm comfortable with this mission. I'm comfortable with its place in military history. I'm comfortable with the difficulty of the mission within the parameters of the game Strike Fighters 2. I appreciate that others might have a different view of history.

BeachAV8R



#3944895 - 04/26/14 04:02 PM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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I agree totally that the convoy attack missions were legitimate actions of war. War is killing. War should always be a means of last resort, but there are few cases in the history of warfare where a belligerent was treated according to the rules of war as Saddam was. Please remember the fragment of the Iraqi military that instantly turned and slaughtered the Kurds a few days later. Remember the gassing of Halabja. Spare no tears for Saddam and his military.

#3944975 - 04/26/14 08:14 PM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: SHar82]  
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Originally Posted By: SHar82
I understand your point, Beach. But really what we want in a videogame? a challenge!... not a mission where you have pretty much no other "challenge" than destroying the most vehicules (and virtual troops) possible, remembering that in reality this was a shameful slaughtering day. I don't get the point to recreate these very controversial events where very bad/criminal decisions was taken resulting in a tragic slaughtering of thousands of very real human live.

At least in a mission between thousands of B17 and hundreds of German fighters over Germany, it was a challenge for each side just to stay alive.




So let us in - in your reenactments of controversial human slaughter are those B-17s dropping flowers and everyone lives happily ever after?


I can at least reassure you that computer sprites don't mind dying for human entertainment.

Like any historical recreation people can research it and form their own arguments on them.


'Crashing and Burning since 1987'
#3945059 - 04/26/14 11:22 PM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: SHar82]  
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Originally Posted By: SHar82
I understand your point, Beach. But really what we want in a videogame? a challenge!... not a mission where you have pretty much no other "challenge" than destroying the most vehicules (and virtual troops) possible,


I for one, am not interested in a "challenge", I play sims for immersion and to recreate stories. In fact most of the quick missions I play involve the slaughter of hapless vehicle columns ar15

#3945062 - 04/26/14 11:38 PM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: MigBuster]  
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Originally Posted By: MigBuster
I can at least reassure you that computer sprites don't mind dying for human entertainment.

Have you not seen "Tron?" biggrin exitstageleft


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#3945310 - 04/27/14 04:59 PM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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A very good read is "Among the Dead Cities" which discusses the moral and legal ramifications of the allied strategic bombing efforts both in Europe and Japan. the fact of the matter is that a lot of it was wholesale attack on civilians with only the slimmest pretense of military targeting.

-Jenrick

#3945330 - 04/27/14 05:51 PM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: jenrick]  
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Originally Posted By: jenrick
A very good read is "Among the Dead Cities" which discusses the moral and legal ramifications of the allied strategic bombing efforts both in Europe and Japan. the fact of the matter is that a lot of it was wholesale attack on civilians with only the slimmest pretense of military targeting.

This would not surprise me. I'll bet it is an incredibly imprecise calculus: bomb people to the point they want their leaders to resolve the issue (through surrender or peace or whatever), or does the bombing rally the people and make it even more difficult to achieve victory?

BeachAV8R



#3945378 - 04/27/14 08:02 PM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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I highly recommend reading the book (there's a Kindle version as well), but the short form answer:

Basically we'd have been called war criminals by the Axis if they had won the war. The RAF over Europe and USAF in the Pacific front barely made a pretense of bombing military or industrial targets. The concept was to destroy the peoples will to fight, which basically didn't work. In fact the Blitz of London which was a straight up attack on civilians was instrumental in firming up British resolve against the Axis. The same was found to occur in Germany. Neither system really had any measure in place for the common citizen to say "Enough!" It would have taken an armed revolt in Germany, and something similar in the UK for the citizenry to force a stop to the war. What is the impetus to revolt, if the enemy is the one who appears to be indiscriminately bombing the hell of out your population centers?

The USAF in Europe at least made an attempt, with a tremendous loss of life, at bombing military and industrial targets. It was only after we began destroying the Luftwaffe that we were really able to do that with any degree of precision.

-Jenrick

#3945427 - 04/27/14 09:54 PM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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Hang on a minute....

Some of you seem to look at this as some sort of sacrilege, due to a perception of this being a straight up slaughter...and that its also not worthy since it's "not a challenge".

I put to you that games and simulations should not JUST be about challenges. Nor should they be limited to just the "clean wars". One can learn from such a scenario, sometimes just reading a history book just doesnt convey what really occurred, and why it went down the way it did.

Simulations allow us to recreate past events, without the bias of preferences.

So let's compare the "highway of death" engagement against 73 Easting: same war, same combatants, in both thr Americans absolutely DOMINATE, in both the Iraqis fell victim in battle.

"Whoa, but the highway thing wasn't a battle!" Well, sure it was...the war was still on, no surrendering from the units on the ground (unlike so many other Iraqi units prior to this), no call if surrender from an Iraqi general or army commander...that makes it still a battle during wartime, it was just an extremely lopsided battle: America had all the luck and the Iraqis had none.

Either way, for the Iraqis in both instances, the result was death. And 73 Easting has been simulated over and over again so many times...yet no one blinks at that.

Nor did anyone blink when Graphsim Hornet 3.0 had a mission to intercept fleeing Iraqi Mig's going to Iran...a lopsided turkey shoot if I ever saw one. Worn out Mig-21's with no modifications, few missiles, perhaps limited on fuel, vs a F-15's and all sorts of other advanced jets loaded for Grizzly bear!?!?



They say war is hell...because it is. Simulations help us understand just how unforgiving war can be, without actually suffering the real consequences. I would argue that this Highway of Death mission simulation is just as worthy as any historical writings of the event. If this event were depicted in a movie, would you protest the movie? Or would you wait to see whether it's respectful of the events that occurred that day? And why would you not offer a similar leeway for a simulator mission?

A final thought: war is unpredictable. An enemy you know is down and out, has often in the real world suddenly changed what it is doing, and suddenly, illogically attacked in an obvious suicide run, probably out of hate. Just because they were driving away from the fight, is no guarantee they werent possibly itching for a fight.


POLITICS, WAR, ECONOMY, CONTROVERSY! and other heated discussions and debates in the PWEC sub-forum at the bottom of this forum main page. See you there!
#3945527 - 04/28/14 02:13 AM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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PFunk Offline
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Not 72 hours before that event, I have no doubt most of those soldiers had either been looting, raping, and killing Kuwaitis.

Saddam essentially sent a whole boatload of Iraqi civilians under the pretense of being the "Iraqi People's Army" or somesuch happy horsecrap. They pretty much stole anything that wasn't nailed down. They found suitcases and trailers full of loot in that maelstrom after it was over.

I'm having a bit of a problem working up some sympathy for the people that inspired the term "rape rooms". They had it coming.

Last edited by PFunk; 04/28/14 02:14 AM.

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#3945669 - 04/28/14 12:47 PM Re: Desert Storm - Mission 09 - Highway of Death [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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komemiute Offline
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Do not ever, under any circumstances go to read people's comment to the Youtube video of 73 Eastings from Great Tank Battles (some sort of History channel program).

Seriously.


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