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#3927859 - 03/21/14 09:19 AM FULL REAL ,What is it ?  
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jaydee Offline
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I see pilots demand "Full Real ". Are these the same pilots that Land their plane 8 times after 200 sorties ?(that's full real yea !).First kill,byebye, dead ,if its "full Real" you want !
Are these the same pilots,that use TS (a modern,effective way of communicating that didn't exist) to be "Full Real with each other....
Is "full Real' a definition from IL2 that someone has carried over?...
Here is what the "Full Real" want !"I Want Full Real,NO padlock, NO icons, Coz that is what Full Real is !,and I want my "High Score"!...Typical.
Can someone explain Full Real for me sitting at my PC at home ??


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#3927879 - 03/21/14 10:29 AM Re: FULL REAL ,What is it ? [Re: jaydee]  
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It's really easy.

You have arcade, all icons on, outside of cockpit views available, no engine management, map markers, waypoints, , all plane icons marked on a mini map of some sort, possible air start, minimal fly time to combat area or even spawn in the midst of a dog fight, possibly unlimited fuel and possibly unlimited ammo.

'Full Real' is simply locked in pit, all available engine and flight control management options and only what the plane could carry in a loadout and fuel supply that is determined to be close to correct as to what it could carry historically. Ground start so you can go through the motions of cranking that Rolls over and warming her up from a crackle and pop to a dull roar.

Full real is just the most immersive option available to play if one wants to pretend one is going to battle the nasty Heinkels and Messerschmidts over London in the Blitz and save the crockery from being chipped. Scores matter little, it's all about getting up and down in one piece, shutting down that solid Merlin and having a breather while the fight continues unabated above. Whilst enjoying a drink of ones pleasure, and chatting with mates. At times in Full Real i have been known to run to the fridge to grab a rum, most terrible i realise, but the war wasn't won on a dry throat now was it.


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#3927890 - 03/21/14 11:38 AM Re: FULL REAL ,What is it ? [Re: jaydee]  
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No such thing as "Full Real" unless you actually die when you crash.


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#3927892 - 03/21/14 11:52 AM Re: FULL REAL ,What is it ? [Re: jaydee]  
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...and not even in the best flight simulators with motion platform you can pull sustained Gs. What's "realism" is simulation, anyway? You have realism of procedures, realism of results, realistic scene rendering, realism of environment (like, the density of combatants and non-combatants in your assigned mission area), realism of behavior (for computer-controlled forces).

At best these days we can hope for procedures, results (in a narrow band of possible missions), and realistic scene rendering. Realistic environments and behavior? Meh. There's still a lot to be done in that area, but most of the discussion revolves about scene rendering and procedures - arguably the areas where it is easiest to come to satisfactory results.

#3927902 - 03/21/14 12:24 PM Re: FULL REAL ,What is it ? [Re: Dogsbd]  
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Originally Posted By: Dogsbd
No such thing as "Full Real" unless you actually die when you crash.


That sir, is a sim.


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#3927909 - 03/21/14 12:33 PM Re: FULL REAL ,What is it ? [Re: jaydee]  
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And some "full real" options are obviously not practical for a PC simulator.

For example, has anyone here flown a B-17 mission from England to Germany or done a U-Boat tour in real time?

I think not. smile


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#3927928 - 03/21/14 01:14 PM Re: FULL REAL ,What is it ? [Re: jaydee]  
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I always felt the term 'full real' was somewhat disrespectful to the memory of those who flew, fought and fell. Many simmers use the term 'full switch' probably for the same sentiment.



#3927931 - 03/21/14 01:18 PM Re: FULL REAL ,What is it ? [Re: jaydee]  
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Jedi Master Offline
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Forcing cockpit on only, with a large amount of the cockpit obscuring your view in a ~20" window, is hardly realistic. No pilot would've ever survived a dogfight with that view on the world, with their vision dictated by the size of "pixels" and at what distance an object is suddenly "rendered".

It's all highly unrealistic.

So people who tout "full real" are merely picking an arbitrary set of rules and declaring them the best but WRT how reality actually was, because then they'd be forced to acknowledge that the difference is really only like 5%...

Total arcade is 0% real, "full real" is 5% real...but still 95% off from reality. Knowing some switches and dials and sequences doesn't alter the fact that a PC monitor on a desk in your house is still NOT real.


I put zero stock in arbitrarily making my simming more difficult to satisfy someone else's definition of acceptable.




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#3927936 - 03/21/14 01:22 PM Re: FULL REAL ,What is it ? [Re: jaydee]  
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Then play on arcade setting servers. This is one of those things where you have a host of options to dink around with, which is how it should be. Realism settings only become a problem when they're forced on the developer's end.

5% real is still a lot closer to something you'll read than zero, but there are limitations since you are indeed looking through a monitor with no g forces on your body.


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#3927955 - 03/21/14 01:48 PM Re: FULL REAL ,What is it ? [Re: Peally]  
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Some years ago someone on the IL2 forum posted something on the lines of;

"You want full real? Put a 5 gal can of gas under your seat while simming. You get shot down, light it!"


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#3927958 - 03/21/14 01:51 PM Re: FULL REAL ,What is it ? [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master


I put zero stock in arbitrarily making my simming more difficult to satisfy someone else's definition of acceptable.


+1

X 100 wink


When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic. ~Benjamin Franklin

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#3927962 - 03/21/14 01:55 PM Re: FULL REAL ,What is it ? [Re: jaydee]  
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Jedi Master Offline
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Here's the other thing: people whose ideas are formed by the fact that all they ever do is play on MP servers vs humans. Yeah, then you're dictating a set of rules to make a (in your opinion) level playing field (even though it's just a difficulty level setting).

When you play vs AI, those rules are often irrelevant. The AI don't have a 20" monitor. They don't worry about cockpit views. They don't need icons. They can see you as long as you're in theoretical max range, they never miss seeing you if they COULD, unlike a person who can easily miss a plane over dense terrain at 1080p with the color palette and brightness limitations of mainstream video.




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#3928061 - 03/21/14 04:31 PM Re: FULL REAL ,What is it ? [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master

When you play vs AI, those rules are often irrelevant. The AI don't have a 20" monitor. They don't worry about cockpit views. They don't need icons. They can see you as long as you're in theoretical max range, they never miss seeing you if they COULD, unlike a person who can easily miss a plane over dense terrain at 1080p with the color palette and brightness limitations of mainstream video.


Well that would depend on how the AIs were coded. I know I put in things like blind spots that varied depending on plane types, only periodic "view" checks and weighting the chance of viewing depending on some factors that I don't remember right now. I'm guessing others have done this as well since it's usually not too hard to tell when you're fighting the All Knowing OZ. It does mean you have to do more work to make them less aware and you have to be careful to keep from using too many cycles when you dumb them down but I think people notice when you make the effort, or maybe they notice it more when you don't (sort of like special effects).

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#3928063 - 03/21/14 04:39 PM Re: FULL REAL ,What is it ? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
or done a U-Boat tour in real time?



IIRC there was one guy back in the days of SH3 that was blogging his real time missions (no time compression). Left the game running whilst at work and whilst sleeping.....


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#3928069 - 03/21/14 04:50 PM Re: FULL REAL ,What is it ? [Re: bogusheadbox]  
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Originally Posted By: bogusheadbox
Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
or done a U-Boat tour in real time?



IIRC there was one guy back in the days of SH3 that was blogging his real time missions (no time compression). Left the game running whilst at work and whilst sleeping.....

Um yeah. That goes wel beyond hardcore.

Did he also grow a beard and not shower to reflect the realistic life of a U-Boat captain? Lol

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 03/21/14 04:51 PM.

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#3928074 - 03/21/14 05:02 PM Re: FULL REAL ,What is it ? [Re: bogusheadbox]  
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Originally Posted By: bogusheadbox
Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
or done a U-Boat tour in real time?



IIRC there was one guy back in the days of SH3 that was blogging his real time missions (no time compression). Left the game running whilst at work and whilst sleeping.....



Yeah, I remember him (way back in 2004 when I was playing SH3). He was on the forums at subsim.com iirc.
That's the most extreme example I ever heard of. I don't remember if he ever completed a full mission let alone a tour, it would take an enormous amount of patience and will-power not to hit that time acceleration button. And if you got detected by an aircraft and the sub was sunk while at work it'd be so depressing.


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#3928095 - 03/21/14 06:01 PM Re: FULL REAL ,What is it ? [Re: jaydee]  
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Originally Posted By: jaydee
I see pilots demand "Full Real ". Are these the same pilots that Land their plane 8 times after 200 sorties ?(that's full real yea !).First kill,byebye, dead ,if its "full Real" you want !
Are these the same pilots,that use TS (a modern,effective way of communicating that didn't exist) to be "Full Real with each other....
Is "full Real' a definition from IL2 that someone has carried over?...
Here is what the "Full Real" want !"I Want Full Real,NO padlock, NO icons, Coz that is what Full Real is !,and I want my "High Score"!...Typical.
Can someone explain Full Real for me sitting at my PC at home ??


I agree with your observations/frustrations and I like the "land 8 times after 200 sorties". Do you notice that almost 100% of the time they add "except for ...."

And I love the ongoing arguments about aircraft performance (FMs/DMs) like they're vets and they've flown in WWII.

#3928102 - 03/21/14 06:21 PM Re: FULL REAL ,What is it ? [Re: Dogsbd]  
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Originally Posted By: Dogsbd
Originally Posted By: Jedi Master


I put zero stock in arbitrarily making my simming more difficult to satisfy someone else's definition of acceptable.


+1

X 100 wink


Yep. cheers


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#3928107 - 03/21/14 06:30 PM Re: FULL REAL ,What is it ? [Re: jaydee]  
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radicaldude1234 Offline
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Well, my most realistic sim experience was in an IL-2 late late war DGEN German Me-262 campaign. Started off on the runway (after presumably towed there by horses from lack of fuel). Midway through my engine startup, a P-51 dives in, strafes, and sets my jet on fire. I mash the bailout key and my ingame character runs away and dives into a ditch just as the plane explodes...

Fun? Absolutely not. Realistic? Terribly so!

Last edited by radicaldude1234; 03/21/14 06:33 PM.
#3928111 - 03/21/14 06:37 PM Re: FULL REAL ,What is it ? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
And some "full real" options are obviously not practical for a PC simulator.

For example, has anyone here flown a B-17 mission from England to Germany or done a U-Boat tour in real time?

I think not. smile


A b17 run to Germany... I would do it with the Oculus Rift. That would really be something.

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