First at all, thank you so much for all the work done in the mod's. I'm having great times with this sim again.

I have one questions about the vortex rotor effect. I've suffered a lot, specially when I leave a hover state. I suspect that the origin could be the x52pro's detent because it always (the vortex effect) appears when I move the throttle in that range.

So I don't know if this is a problem of my HOTAS or maybe I don't execute correctly the transition from hover to normal cruise.

If someone can enlighten me about this problem, I'll appreciate.

Transitioning from cruise to a hover? Or hover to normal cruise? Also, are you entering an OGE hover or an IGE hover? The flight model is maybe a little overzealous in modeling the vortex ring state when entering an OGE hover from cruise I've found, but nothing that can't be overcome easily enough.

Things to keep in mind about the vortex ring state (or settling with power):

A vertical or near vertical rate of descent >300fpm is favorable to getting into settling with power.
Little to no forward airspeed, <ETL (16-24kts) is favorable to getting into settling with power.
Power applied 20 to 100% with insufficient power available for recovery, the idea is at the first recognition you pull in power to stop the rate of descent, if you don't have the power to stop the settling, then you fly out.

If you're in a fully combat loaded aircraft trying to come to an OGE hover from high speed cruise...don't, you'll be putting yourself in a world of hurt. You want to approach slowly. The biggest thing is, you're hurting yourself because of the rotor coning going on as you're decelerating the aircraft. Typically, a fully combat loaded aircraft will require around 20% above hover power for the range of GWT, PA and Temperature conditions. So, if you're trying to do a high speed transition, there's a lot of things at play, all of which are conspiring to bring you down. I'd reccomend starting about 3 to 4km out, smoothly decelerating the aircraft and transitioning into an NOE flight profile (NOE being surface to 25ft AHO). Usually what I do is create an additional waypoint that I use as my RP (release point) to have the aircraft decelerated to around 30 to 40kts at around 10-15ft AGL all the way up to my FP (firing position). This keeps me safe, affords me lots of time to survey the area and react if need be to threats along the way.

That's how I survive in the sim anyway. Hope that helps!

V/R

Brad McKinstry

Thank you Brad. I don't put my fingers on a military sim since a lot of years. So right now I feel a bit lost about how I must act in the battle field. Your explanation helps me a lot to learn and understand concepts and procedures.

Back to vortex ring: I have not problem getting into hover. My problem usually happens when, being in hover (static or normal), I try change my position to another one to get a better line of sight towards the target. In that moment, when I move the comanche or when I try to lose a little bit altitude, the ring vortex appears.

The last time I realized this happens when I move my throttle thru the HOTAS afterburner detent so I thought maybe it could be the reason (due a spike in the sensor signal or something like that). Or maybe I'm not doing correctly this maneuver.

Ah, okay. Hmm...that is odd. I haven't noticed transient torque being modeled in this sim...but if it is, and the HOTAS command is causing the engine tq to spike and the rotor to droop for just enough time that the aircraft loses lift, that could be the issue. Dunno though, i'd have to play around with it. What I suspect is maybe the movements are just aggressive enough and the aircraft heavy enough that the settling issue is super easy to get into. I know that the rotor system at the high power settings for OGE work are going to result in a crap ton of rotor coning, which means a reduced lifting area from the disk, so any kind of rate of descent is going to make you highly susceptible to settling with power. Since most of the missions are pretty short, maybe try going out with less fuel and seeing if she handles a bit better for you. Everything you do while OGE should be smooth and slow, smooth and slow.

I'll have to hop into the sim when I next get a chance and see what she's doing. That's just me thinking about possible problems.

I suspect if you are using the (stable?) hover hold after coming to a rapid stop, your throttle/collective is likely still at that setting. This is often far enough below what is needed for a stable hover altitude, so you end up dropping.
You could try going from hover hold directly to altitude hold, moving, and then going back to hover hold - this way the automatic control continues uninterrupted without any sudden change to 'user' in the middle.
Works for me anyway

Your insights into flight dynamics is pretty interesting to read. Are you a RL pilot?

@Messyhead: Yessir. I'm an AH-64D Instructor Pilot.

That makes sense with the hover hold. I honestly don't much use it, just the sims force trim feature, so that actually makes sense. If the sim stores the last reference collective position versus the current collective position that would cause some issues for sure coming out of hover hold. I'll have to play with that.

Yesterday I was testing several maneuvers in the free flight mode: slow and fast transitions from cruise to hover, even doing by myself using the trim. I tested with soft and very aggressive throttle management. At the end I felt a little shake only two times and I could recovery immediately without damage the helo. I made these test carrying 8 hellfire and stingers and I was checking the torque indicator closely, trying to detect any kind of spike due my throttle but I did not see nothing strange.

But, back into the skirmish, when I was trying to change my hover position to another one more close to the target, at 50ft (aprox) and torque 77%, I lost completely lift and fell as stone. This time I had not time to recover.

Tonight I'm going to try Doctor_wibble's tip. Maybe the problem is change the collective position to get or lose elevation and switching thru different hover modes at the same time.