Sorry to read about your pilot, but WOW, that's really a very cool feature in the game! I didn't know that could happen.

I mostly fly rotaries and this bit of info is helpful to know.

Since, reading post#3883616 in this thread: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3883616/Re_Realistic_throttle_per_plan#Post3883616
...that's how I mostly fly now.

BTW - I wonder if it's modeled in the game that if you perform a steep dive and use the 'mixture idle cutoff' while the engine is on fire that there will be a chance to extinguish the fire? (or was it more common for the pilot to burn to death?)

No idea. It might be though. Nobody really thought WOFF modeled excess blipping flooding the engine with fuel and causing a fire until it happened. Pretty sure I was the first person to die that way.

The devs are pretty tight lipped about what's modeled and what isn't. I'm afraid the only way to test it is to have a fire, dive and try it yourself. I would certainly hope it's possible to extinguish a fire once it starts, but I imagine it'd be pretty hard, and sadly, many pilots did die that way. It's why many took pistols with them after all.

I started a BE2c career in Dec 1915 and completed 10 missions BEFORE I added the Fokker Scourge pack.

Do I have to start a new career or can I continue my current one and see the effect of the add on?

Just finished my first flight in an E.I after installing Patch v1.14 and was able to close on a pair of Moranes that were co-alt...Thank you!

The E.I was just barely faster than the BE2c and the Morane so you aren't going to be able to close quickly unless you have some alt to give you the edge, and you probably won't be able to catch them while climbing. The E.II and E.III are faster and will make the hunt easier

Just watched a show on the Military Channel the other day about the Fokker E Series planes and they said it could barely fly and it will stall like a rock if you get the nose too high. They did some modern wind tunnel testing on an E.I and said it was probably as dangerous to the pilots who flew it as it was to the planes it hunted during the Fokker Scourge due to the primitive wing design...all the more fun!

In spite of my previous gripes, I bought it anyway. I want to support the devs and encourage future expansions.

Point 1: Blip Switch
I know from reading that it was used as described for speed management and the increased fire risk due to a lot of unburned fuel being pushed out of the cylinders and onto presumably hot engine cowlings at high speeds thus creating a lot of fumes. That's why I've taken to going to full lean instead. The effect is the same but no nasty fuel buildup. Haven't had a chance to test it in WOFF yet, just got it running due to some computer problems that arrived two days before my copy.


Point 2: Add-on Packs
I attempted to order WOFF the day it became available. Due to some restrictions on my debit card and Avangate being an overseas company it took a few days until I could place the order successfully. I also ordered the Skins Add-on immediately. The explanation that its sheer volume indicated the need for separate distribution seemed reasonable, as did the reward-for-investment.

However, the Fokker Scourge pack has me concerned. It's not just the price; $25USD is reasonable for me. It's more of a conditioning thing.

It took, what, four or five years to create WOFF. In all that time we were teased (you may use the word "placated" or "soothed" if you prefer) with pictures and videos of what this sim held in store. Early war! BE2 observers with rifles! Heavies on both sides! Zeppelins! And after four or five years...time spent "getting it right", "making it the best experience possible" it's released. And a month later comes the Fokker Scourge add-on. And I understand the Heavies and Zepps will be another add-on. And on page 2 of this thread Von Paulus said, "". Does that mean there'll be an add-on pack for that period, as well? What might be in that? An arguement can be made for the Fokker Scourge as having fallen outside of the timeframe of the original release, but surely April 1917 must have been included! And then what? "The Red Baron's Last Flight" add-on? "Werner Voss's"? Maybe the "Eddie Rickenbacker's CMH Flight" add-on pack?

As I said, I've only just gotten WOFF installed (and was somewhat disappointed at the lack of the Gotha and HP) and only done a couple of QC freeflights. It looks fantastic!! And everything I've read sounds like this is the sim I've dreamed about since I got my first computer in 1998 and well worth the wait. But I'm concerned about how close on its heels these add-ons are coming and the the additional cost. I can't help feeling like we're being conditioned to keep reaching for our wallets for things that were, to the best of my recollection, supposed to be included in the initial release (and if I'm wrong about this, please point to where the likelihood of multiple add-on packs soon after the release was posted...or even hinted at). In fact, I believe I and some others came under fire for suggesting a year or so ago that the devs release what they had and dole out the rest as it became ready. (That was on another forum, BTW)

As for the suggestion of some to wait for a bit before ordering, it was mentioned at the initial release in a thread on "the other forum" that this whole thing may have a limited availability. I honestly don't recall who said it and I'm not inclined to look it up right now (partly because I'm at work), but if the call comes I will.


Just my observations.

Well WOFF itself is worth 3 times the price easily - we could not finish all things in 4 years working 18 hour days, 7 days a week, so yes any more will need to be added on ... in an add-on. We need some tiny reward (and believe me it's not enough by a long shot) for working to get this to be the best single player WW1 air war experience there has ever been.
We need support by people buying WOFF and add-ons - without support it would make the decision for us to carry on or stop much easier.

To think it's fantastic, and it's the thing you have been waiting for since 1998 but now begrudge funding it a little -doesn't make sense. No-one (that's no-one) has made a WW1 sim as detailed as this before (and maybe never will).

I counted the price for the Strutter from the other sim the other day with the weapons and field mod and that came to $17 and the Fokker pack is $25..to be honest they are doing this cheaper than other games out there.

In my opinion, if that was your goal, then you have exceeded all expectations... by a long shot.

I would recommend that you fly the WOFF campaign for at least a couple of weeks and take the time to experience what you have. See what the options are. Experience the enemy AI for yourself. Try flying by the newly updated in-flight maps. Give it a very good going over and then see how you feel.

You might have already gotten much, much more than you expected. You just haven't had the chance to experience it for yourself yet sir. The terrain has indeed been much improved, but until you really give the single player campaign a go, you won't realize just how much stuff "under the hood" has also been improved just as much, if not more, than the terrain.

Something else to consider, there are plenty of sims out there that haven't received as many patches and updates over their entire lifetime as WOFF has received in less than 2 months...especially considering the number of improvements that were put in due to player feedback. Bloody goggles, g-force effects, much improved in-flight maps, configurable 'dot labels', etc. Nobody can accuse OBD of taking the money and running. It's the best supported sim out there, no matter if you buy the add-on packs or not.

But there are regular sales and deals for bulk-buying of aircraft. Nor are the weapons and field mods essential. Of course, there may yet be such deals from OBD. Why not a discount if one buys the skins and the Fokker Scourge together? It's too late for me (I have the Scourge), but it would be good business, I suggest.

Then, like the other sim, need to initially sell their products using the sales model they selected. Later, if they want to increase sales, or on the next add on release, thay can have a special sale on these. Just as the other sim does. They have a tremendously impressive product, so they don't need to low ball their pricing as others have done.

$25 for a campaign doesn't seem out of line at all. That's about what I paid for a Desastersoft campaign for Cliffs of Dover. You're getting a lot more than just skins.

Gentlemen,

As I've said before, and will again, quality costs money.

$25 is the grand scheme of life is trivial. It's 6 trips to Four Bucks...err I mean Starbucks.

I'm sure some people would be complaining about something even if you offered the add-on packs for free.

I think the support will come, perhaps not all at once. I'm sure there'll be a landslide of purchases with each campaign/add-on release, with more sales trickling in during the weeks/months after the release.

RoF has been this way since 777 took over (I'll name RoF and its forum, and continue to do so, since WoFF is advertised, promoted, and praised thru-out the Rise of Flight forums without any need for surreptitious wording or phrases to mask WoFF's identity.). The reality is that some addons sell better than others, which forces 777 to make hard choices about what to include and what not to. Bottom line is give the people what they want! heh!

From what I've seen, WoFF is doing a great job of this and has some terrific products in the works.
WoFF is only going to get better and better (like RoF) with all the future additions, which will promote purchases of additions that previously weren't purchased....just to have a complete and fleshed out ww1 theater.
It's TERRIFIC that OBD has a product that can realize this! As word gets out, the sales will roll in.

Personally, I think that when Star Citizen is released, there will be a HUGE inundation of ww1 pilots in both WoFF and RoF. Why? Because people will purchase joysticks to fly SC, and they'll remember games like RB and even X-Wing Vs. Tie Fighter (games that required joysticks), and will see flight sims as an option (now that they have a joystick again). Makes sense. We'll see I guess.

It has been proven many times that people moan more about free stuff than stuff they pay for. Seems to be human nature to be positive about something that you have bought, otherwise you will feel a fool for buying it in the first place.

Polovski, "Well WOFF itself is worth 3 times the price easily..."

WOFF=$59.99
Skins Pack=$24.99, Fokker Scourge=$24.99. Subtotal, $49.98.
Current total, $109.97

We're almost at twice the price, now, only two months in. And no heavies or Zepps yet, so we can expect the total to be at least 2.25 times the original price just to add them. More, if there's a two-seater add-on. And that's not counting Matt's score (nothing personal, Matt, but I'm focussing on what's core to playing the game). Looks like you're working your way to three.



Polovski, "we could not finish all things in 4 years working 18 hour days, 7 days a week, so yes any more will need to be added on" (which, by my calculation, left only six hours per day for sleep, food, your real jobs and your families...amazing)

Again, I suggested exactly that last spring and was told that you (the dev team, not you individually) wanted to wait until the project was finished. And if it took four years to put this together why are these add-ons that require so much extra time to build coming so soon? Of course, now I've probably doomed the Gotha, HP and Zeppelins to a long delay to justify yet another add-on pack.


I'm not challenging the skill, dedication and sacrifice of the dev team. And I'm very grateful to them for all the work they've put into this. I'm just dubious of the way this is being presented, all things considered. It's rather reminiscent of the movies "The Three Musketeers" and "The Four Musketeers" by Roman Polanski in the 1970's. He, too, set out with an ambitious plan to be faithful to Dumas's book. But in so doing he ended up with a movie of more than four hours. Knowing that no studio would release something so long and that audiences would balk at sitting in theater seats for such a time, regardless of the film's quality and faithfullness to its inspiration, he broke it into two seperate movies and released them about a year apart. And made a ton more money than he would have had he stuck with his initial plan. (and I know there's no way you intend to make a ton of money, considering the small...make that miniscule...audience WOFF and all its eventual add-ons will have compared to a big-budget movie)


A couple of questions: How long will Fokker Scourge and any other add-on packs be available after their respective initial realeases and how many more add-ons does the team expect to release? I won't ask about expected release dates. I'm sure the response will be "two weeks".

Short answer : the Luftstreitkrafte has ordered further modifications on the Gotha, so it is grounded. The Zeppelin is still in development. I'll ignore the tone and insinuations of the rest of your post. I can't remember the last time I saw six hours sleep, and I know most of the team is in the same boat. Do you think all those updates were auto generated?

Well back in the day, I paid $49.99 for Red Baron 3D.

Sixteen some odd years later $59.99 is probably less - when adjusted for inflation - than what I paid for Red Baron 3D and there's far more in WOFF than was ever included in RB3D. RB3D only had 22 planes available for the user to fly. WOFF has more than double that right out of the box. Fifty Five. I'd say the pricing of WOFF is more than fair based on that alone.

Then add in:
the quality of the AI
the ridiculously huge dynamic campaign
the depth of options in the Workshop
the high resolution scenery
brand new flight models that give a much better feeling of flight
not to mention the ridiculously fast level of support from the Devs via patches that don't just fix bugs. They also introduced new features (completely for free) such as a better in-game flying map, blood on the googles to indicate being wounded without breaking immersion, visual g-force effects, etc).

I'd say RB3D has been pretty much the Gold Standard against which everyone has compared WWI flight sims since it was released 16 years ago and to me it looks like a poor value (back in the day) compared to all that I've gotten for my base price with WOFF.

True, the thousands of painstakingly researched and faithfully re-created skins do cost an extra $24.99. That money all goes to the actual skinners who did the work. Not to OBD. I think somebody worked out the math to being something like 6 pennies per skin. Given the hours it must take to create each one, and that the money goes to the actual artists, I'm personally okay with seeing them get a little reward for all of their efforts. Personally, if they make another one of equal size for the same price, I'd buy that too.

Then there's the add-on packs. So after years of hearing people complain that WOFF is "taking too long", now the Devs have to hear that the add-ons are coming "too fast". Well, there's really no such thing as "too fast" because you don't have to buy them the moment they come out. You can buy them when it suits you, if you actually want them. They are available for digital download, so there's no reason to think they will be out of print anytime soon.

How many more add-on packs will the Devs release? That depends on how strong the sales are of their existing available products. Strong sales lead to more add-ons. Pretty much a standard, industry wide. Doesn't matter when they release them or how many they eventually release. Just buy the ones that you want when it works for you to do so. I don't know of any developers who release their entire life-cycle plan of add-ons to the public ever, let alone just two months after the core products was released. To think OBD should have to do so is a bit silly, at best.

Everyone is free to evaluate the value of their purchases however they choose. For me, I always ask myself how much am I getting for my money compared to other products of similar nature. When I do that, I find WOFF comes out extremely well as a value based purchase.