....is a big friggin MEH!

No foul towards WT, its fun and free and everything but when Im flying simulator mode
in WT I realize how inferior it feels against IL-2: Battle of Stalingrad.
I cant wait how it turns out in the end and maybe get some MP flying, it will be glorius.
Just a rant IMO since I spent this morning flying in both....

Im just exited for IL-2: Battle of Stalingrad.

Nothing surprising there. A product made for sim enthusiasts is not going to feel anything like one made for the masses. At least, not if it's successful in targeting them.



The Jedi Master

As more content is introduced, this becomes more and more true for many WT'ers.

I myself left that game a LONG time ago. I now enjoy Cliffs once a week, to avoid BOB'itis (the constant exposure to the Battle of Britain)

WT had it in their hands to really please the SIM community, but they traded in that opportunity to please the Arcade crowd. From a business standpoint - Brilliant, to our SIM addicted perspective- total garbage.

Although I don't play War Thunder, I like it that they managed to get the numbers they have playing a prop flight based combat game.

Agreed. Some time ago gaijin claimed 3,000,000 registered users. This is good for us since some people will gravitate
to sims.

Air quake is air quake, designed purely as a quick thrill for the CoD boys, i.e. a cheap beer.
CLoD with TF and especially BoS is like a fine wine, something to be savoured for the experience.

Playing sim mod in WT is not really Air Quake… not as hardcore as BOS, CLOD or DCS, maybe but to put it in the arcade category is completely unfair.

Yeah, too bad hardly anyone plays sim mode or even historical battles. I recall reading somewhere that 97% of WT players play arcade battles.

Considering there are people that call Flaming Cliffs for DCS "arcade" because it's only 90% modeled, I find the "arcade" moniker grossly overused.

Arcade is Afterburner, where your F-14 carries DOZENS of Phoenix missiles and can refuel AND rearm in midair from a B-1B!

Having something like gyro precession, compressibility, or gun jams not modeled is not enough to make something "arcade". It reveals more about the inflexibility of the desires of the one throwing the term about than the actual product.

Reduced fidelity? Casual modeling? Sure, those terms apply. But it's not freaking Pac Man.



The Jedi Master

For me WT (Sim Mode) is on the same level as Strike Fighter: slightly relaxed but still very much simulation in my book: stall and spins, no enemy markers, Torque and wind effects ON, cockpit only with no "radar", real ammo/bomb count, pretty decent physics (especially in full engine management mode), Trackir ready (and working ultra smooth), Amazing immersive graphics (for the real based maps) at ALL altitudes, realistic damage (try to 'limp" your base after receiving some canon's lead),… if that is too arcade for you, you must be one of these really hardcore button pushers who like more an engineer role than really flying a plane.

The only "arcade" word, I would allow for WT is more related to the gameplay: ATM it's more a "multiplayer 15-45 min sessions dogfight simulator" on medium size map, but in a way it's perfect for me who don't have hours to allow to my hobby.

by the way, in WT: gyro precession (do you mean torque? if yes, it's already in), compressibility (very soon), or gun jams (already in)

Gyro precession and torque are not the same thing. Torque is more prevalent in sims than gyro precession.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precession#Torque-induced



The Jedi Master

I used to play endless hours in RB3D, which by todays standards would be considered Air quake and arcade. But as time has moved on and sims have become more complex my tastes have moved on too. I have developed my flight sim abilities over the years via titles like Red Baron, RB3D, EAW and Il2. A nice steady and long shallow curve.

I feel sorry for the sim beginner, it's quite a learning curve to jump into a flight sim the way they are designed these days.
I also see a lot of names on these boards that have been here as long as me and have no doubt developed the virtual flying ability in the same way as me.

Something like WT could possibly be a starting point for people looking at trying out combat flight sims and themn move them on to more complex titles like CloD and BoS.

our squadron have been seeing WOT converts lately. These converts are wanting more from the Airsimulation instead of Air-Quake.

FR battles are anything but air quake. Well, outside of the fact that the point is too shoot the enemy down.

What exactly constitues air quake?

For me Air Quake would constitute, a short take off straight into a furball. Lots of respawns, lots of kills and lots of deaths. As opposed to taking off getting height and then navigating to attack something or defend something. Don't get me wrong sometimes I like that fast paced quick turn around action. But in an FPS not in a flight sim.

I'm not saying air quake is exclusive to WT, but the small maps and simplified FM's drive a server to it. Low furballs, planes dogfighting at a 1000 feet that sort of thing.

WT is not alone either, any online experience can go that way. ATAG can be a bit like that over Hawkinge, but there is the option to take off at another base and follow the mission.

War Thunder (arcade) is probably a good introduction for people that want to try combat flying and only have say a joystick.
If they get a taste for it, then the fun can really start; I started 'proper' flying with Red Baron on 5.25" floppy disks many, many years ago and I still get a buzz out of well crafted sims.

Actually you would be surprised playing WT (in sim mode granted) how much real tactics get into usage… At the lowest tiers, you have mostly turners, so of course the furball is on the deck, but once you get your hand on planes from the medium tier (BF109 F, FW190, Typhoon, etc…) then your style of combat (like in history) also changes: you fly higher, and learn to master the BnZ and energy fight. The FMs are constantly refined to reflect the plane you fly… most of them are pretty accurate (at least on par with IL 1946). Air Quake for me would relate more to an Ace combat game (unlimited ammos, no physics…, unlimited spawning of enemies, thousand of kills. In WT (Simulation mode), everything is here to immerse you in the cockpit of a plane, and you are lucky if you get away not being shot or with 1-2 kills per match: very decent physics, sounds (pretty damm good), graphics (AWESOME) and weather effects, no markers, limited ammos, inertia, etc… Sure it's more Dogfight simulator ATM than a full game like CLOD or BOS, but denigrate it like you do is just plain unfair (and I played all the current combat sims) and a bit snobbish.

Another example: the labeling as arcade based not on the modeling of the planes, the environment, or any of that stuff, but because of the types of missions/usage of that world.

By that metric, ANY sim can be turned into arcade easily. Add floating XP numbers and "KILL STREAK" banners and you're done.

On the other end of the scale, I've seen games with very simple FMs, DMs, avionics and weapons used for realistic missions that made you wish the modeling was done to a more realistic standard because the game was BEGGING for it.

As for Red Baron, I would say anyone calling that arcade is just TRYING to be a snob. Sure the level of fidelity was limited by the tech of the time, but the intent to make it the most serious WWI sim ever made at the time was there. It didn't pander to the low end at all. I still consider it the best WWI sim overall ever created, even if ROF and others have surpassed it in various areas since.

Just as those people who claimed that after CloD a "serious" WWII sim required clickable cockpits, making Il-2:1946 go from "the best" to "barely passable", you don't call a 65 Corvette a miserable car because it doesn't have airbags, GPS, digital stereo, backup camera, run-flat tires, and 40MPG efficiency. It may not be able to compete with a modern one in multiple ways but that doesn't retroactively make it junk.




The Jedi Master

I'm not dengrating WT. Further up this thread I state I'm pleased to see WT doing well. Also I don't think Air Quake is a derogetory term, it's a style of online play for combat flight sims. Some people like that some people don't, I'm not fond of.

What you quoted above is not about WT, more about what I define as Air Quake in flight sims, all sims. Again I'm not putting down that style of play. It just isn't what I look for in a flight sim. I like much more tactical drawn out missions, not just DF furballs.
You'll notice I mentioned ATAG has a tendency to go Air Quake. Certain servers in IL2 did the same. The few times I tried out WT was the same. Small map, lots of players, airfields close together is a recipe for what I define as Air Quake

I like fast paced action games, just not when I play flight sims. Therefore WT is not really for me.

That doesn't make me a snob....

Agree with Brigs... it most certainly is air quake.
I still have a play on it from time to time to see if it has improved any, but for me it has just got worse.
The 'grind' to win syndrome puts me off more than anything. The whole system is convoluted, annoying, and does nothing to take the game forward.
Having said that, if it brings more people into the genre, that's not a bad thing either