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#3859819 - 11/08/13 02:48 AM I actually like this DCS WWII idea  
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When ED promised to deliver 1 module every 9mon and failed to keep that promise, I was furious. When they first pushed out P-51, I was incinerated "WTF are they doing? Expecting P51 along side with mig-29s? They should focus on modern jets" After that I sold off my old Flaming Cliff disks and vowed never to purchase anything made by this company any more. One day, I read about the news about DCS WWII and I actually started to understand where this whole thing is heading. This whole DCS WWII idea is actually what I have been looking for for years. A high fidelity WWII combat flight sim. With years of disappointment (mostly porked US planes in IL-2, Sub-par graphics in Aces High), I might finally see a light at the end of a tunnel. Modeling a high fidelity modern jet fighter is difficult, complex and very likely to run into dead end since so much information is classified. WWII stuff, on the contrary, is readily available. If ED can stay on this course and focus on this project, I wholeheartedly believe it will bollosom into a popular sim with a large fan base. I just casted my vote with a purchase of DCS P51. I hope a lot more people will follow the suit and one day we all can meet in this fantastic cyber world in our favorite WWII birds. Keep up the good work.

#3860212 - 11/08/13 10:41 PM Re: I actually like this DCS WWII idea [Re: pandacat]  
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The industry now has me so jaded I merely raise my eyebrows at most for any given announcement. The rate of under-delivery in flight sims is so high that I no longer eagerly anticipate anything or feel any disappointment when they fail to appear. A brief list of titles that upon a time disappointed me: Fighter Ops, SoW: BoB (what it was supposed to be, not what CloD was), DCS: AH-64, MPS F4: F-15E, Jane's A-10, Desert Fighters...

If it comes, and it's good, I'll get it. If not, oh well. I might invest some money, but I will no longer invest myself.



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#3860300 - 11/09/13 02:29 AM Re: I actually like this DCS WWII idea [Re: pandacat]  
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I think it will be good. It may take several years for them to get it there, but eventually, it will be good biggrin

#3862021 - 11/13/13 04:28 PM Re: I actually like this DCS WWII idea [Re: pandacat]  
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Yeah, I have also had so much frustration and disappointment with the combat flight sim genre, especially the modern one. True that the fan base is smaller than many other genres and the learning curve is much steeper (not like you can take an AK47 and start banging away), but the fans are hardcore and more dedicated. If one loves flight sim, he will love it for years or even ages. However, I believe the biggest problem lies with developers and their lack of strategic business mentality. They often got ambitious and overextended themselves. They often have no pulse on the fans around them. Like DCS, please ask yourself a question,"how far can you go with detailed and authentic modern fighter jet modeling?" You think you can present to the fans, many of whom are experts, with a faked F-35(with so much classified) and claim it to be authentic? Why wasting years and thousands on something that's bound to be a dead end?

WWII is out there. Not copy righted, not patented, not classified and with volumeous of public information available. I say ED should just ditch the modern era projects and throw all resources on WWII stuff. With good planes and good multi-player environment, many old fans (like myself), who have lost interest, will come back and new fans will join. To address steep learning curve issue, you can set up different servers like War Thunder. For those who just like easy arcadish play style, they can play on one server and for those hardcore simer, they can have fun on a different server. If the prospect looks good, you can then extend into other theaters such as pacific, (I am sure a lot of people would love to see WWII carrier ops in DCS). IL-2's past success is already a good example. DCS can potentially take it to a new level. Well, all this depends on how wisely these folks can managed their resources and deliver on their promises.

#3862400 - 11/14/13 12:57 PM Re: I actually like this DCS WWII idea [Re: pandacat]  
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Originally Posted By: pandacat
I say ED should just ditch the modern era projects and throw all resources on WWII stuff.


No, thanks. IMO ED is doing a fine job with expanding the DCS series as it is.


"...late afternoon the Air Tasking Order came in [and] we found the A-10 part and we said, "We are going where!? We are doing what!?"

Capt. Todd Sheehy, Hog pilot, on receiving orders during Operation Desert Storm

#3862634 - 11/14/13 08:17 PM Re: I actually like this DCS WWII idea [Re: Para_Bellum]  
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Originally Posted By: Para_Bellum
Originally Posted By: pandacat
I say ED should just ditch the modern era projects and throw all resources on WWII stuff.


No, thanks. IMO ED is doing a fine job with expanding the DCS series as it is.



Yes, in that case we would have MULTIPLE devs doing WWII and NO devs doing modern stuff.

That hardly seems a good strategy.



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#3862727 - 11/14/13 11:10 PM Re: I actually like this DCS WWII idea [Re: Para_Bellum]  
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[/quote]

IMO ED is doing a fine job with expanding the DCS series as it is.

[/quote]

Really? How expanding is it? A-10:2010? BSII: 2011? Then What? Stagnation? UH-1? Do you really want to count those helos in MODERN COMBAT SIM? What about FC3? Well, how is it different from FC2, besides better skins and some minor twists? More advanced FM maybe? If you claim you have enough detailed information and resources on F-15, why not push out an F-15 module?

#3862729 - 11/14/13 11:16 PM Re: I actually like this DCS WWII idea [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master[/quote


Yes, in that case we would have MULTIPLE devs doing WWII and NO devs doing modern stuff.

That hardly seems a good strategy.



Sounds like they have a lot of extra resources to spare so that they can get several projects rolling at the same time. Is that really true? If they had so much extra resources, why bother to do this kickstarter thing at all? Please don't forget they said P51D was created on their spare time. It was done by the SAME set of folks, not MULTIPLE/DIFFERENT devs.

#3862785 - 11/15/13 02:32 AM Re: I actually like this DCS WWII idea [Re: pandacat]  
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I'm currently flying the A-10, the P-51, the Huey and the Mi-8. All are absolutely amazing simulated aircraft and among the best I've ever seen in any flightsim.

I'm fine with how ED is doing business. Stuff takes time. And hardcore sims are and will always be a niche market at best.


"...late afternoon the Air Tasking Order came in [and] we found the A-10 part and we said, "We are going where!? We are doing what!?"

Capt. Todd Sheehy, Hog pilot, on receiving orders during Operation Desert Storm

#3862795 - 11/15/13 03:15 AM Re: I actually like this DCS WWII idea [Re: pandacat]  
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Originally Posted By: pandacat


WWII is out there. Not copy righted, not patented,


You might want to let Grumman know that - they disagree.

#3863011 - 11/15/13 03:21 PM Re: I actually like this DCS WWII idea [Re: pandacat]  
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Quote:
I say ED should just ditch the modern era projects and throw all resources on WWII stuff.


And alienate most of their old fanbase who supported ED's original idea of a modern(ish) study sim and thus bought the Shark? I'm sorry, but for someone talking about "strategic business mentality" you really need to hone yours a bit further first biggrin

#3863101 - 11/15/13 06:12 PM Re: I actually like this DCS WWII idea [Re: pandacat]  
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Originally Posted By: pandacat
Originally Posted By: Jedi Master


Yes, in that case we would have MULTIPLE devs doing WWII and NO devs doing modern stuff.

That hardly seems a good strategy.

[/quote


Sounds like they have a lot of extra resources to spare so that they can get several projects rolling at the same time. Is that really true? If they had so much extra resources, why bother to do this kickstarter thing at all? Please don't forget they said P51D was created on their spare time. It was done by the SAME set of folks, not MULTIPLE/DIFFERENT devs.


I think you're off the rails a bit.
They will (wisely) pursue multiple areas of development and streams of revenue.
Abandoning the modern aircraft that they've built their success on would be phenomenally stupid.

#3863189 - 11/15/13 08:59 PM Re: I actually like this DCS WWII idea [Re: pandacat]  
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Originally Posted By: pandacat
Originally Posted By: Jedi Master


Yes, in that case we would have MULTIPLE devs doing WWII and NO devs doing modern stuff.

That hardly seems a good strategy.

[/quote


Sounds like they have a lot of extra resources to spare so that they can get several projects rolling at the same time. Is that really true? If they had so much extra resources, why bother to do this kickstarter thing at all? Please don't forget they said P51D was created on their spare time. It was done by the SAME set of folks, not MULTIPLE/DIFFERENT devs.


KS was done by Ilya's group. Ilya is not an employee of ED. He's not being funded by ED, although he will be assisted by them to some extent. ED is doing the 109 AFAIK, but I don't know the details exactly.

The P-51D was indeed created by ED in their spare time...and the fact that it's a WWII bird in a modern battlefield is the result. Ilya is going to take that as the basis for a new WWII DCS, ED isn't making it with "a little help" from him.

As for what ED is doing, I expect we'll be talking about the 2016 elections sooner than we get F/A-18C, seeing as they're tied up with making non-FC adaptations of those planes, EDGE and Nevada right now. There's nothing else that they've announced. They're busy enough.



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#3863209 - 11/15/13 09:28 PM Re: I actually like this DCS WWII idea [Re: pandacat]  
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Yah... and there's always a possibility of them doing some resource-intensive stuff and/or a sizable project for an unknown defence agency ATM too.

#3888101 - 01/02/14 06:34 PM Re: I actually like this DCS WWII idea [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
The industry now has me so jaded I merely raise my eyebrows at most for any given announcement. The rate of under-delivery in flight sims is so high that I no longer eagerly anticipate anything or feel any disappointment when they fail to appear. A brief list of titles that upon a time disappointed me: Fighter Ops, SoW: BoB (what it was supposed to be, not what CloD was), DCS: AH-64, MPS F4: F-15E, Jane's A-10, Desert Fighters...

If it comes, and it's good, I'll get it. If not, oh well. I might invest some money, but I will no longer invest myself.



The Jedi Master


Jedi I think you summed up exactly how I feel about the whole thing and what I was trying to say in my earlier post where I was called Crazy.


Ahh CLOD never in the history of Simming has so much been promised and so little given.

However I want to thank Team Fusion for keeping the Dream Alive.
#3888129 - 01/02/14 07:00 PM Re: I actually like this DCS WWII idea [Re: pandacat]  
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Well, it's pretty common to fail to get a point across in text only. You can try and explain things, but it's hard to know when people are going to misread something and fill in the blanks to think "oh, he means this" when in fact that's not only NOT what you mean but perhaps even 180 degrees off!

It's probably the most frustrating thing I find about the internet.



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#3888408 - 01/03/14 02:12 AM Re: I actually like this DCS WWII idea [Re: pandacat]  
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Well , I would not be in favor of completely dumping modern A/C at all. What I WOULD be in support of was having a bit more of a completed supporting asset list with a released sim. I have found that the one off aircraft especially the P-51 are kind of lost sheep in the fact that they have nothing period based to fight, blow up, or otherwise compete with.

They are study sims that are begging to scratch up with the best their period has to offer but they are left alone. I am willing to bet that if they waited on the P-51 until they did a 109, and made a period map of even modest detail, it would have given CLOD a run for its money (speaking of "at release" numbers).

It just seem elementary to me that if you are going to go that far into something, giving it a purpose is just if not more important.

#3888612 - 01/03/14 02:34 PM Re: I actually like this DCS WWII idea [Re: pandacat]  
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I understand the P-51 was a proof-of-concept for a hi-fi prop plane in the DCS engine. I get that some people just like flying around in one with working weapons and were willing to buy it. I just personally also think it needs the context or it's just an exercise.

However, that said, to go to the expense of building an entire WWII sim without knowing how it would go over... I get why ED did it as it paved the way for this. This will be what we expected more traditionally as opposed to what the P-51 release was.

The P-51 proved it's possible. Now we have to see the execution. I just hope it's worth it.



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#3890708 - 01/06/14 11:10 PM Re: I actually like this DCS WWII idea [Re: pandacat]  
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Regarding "investing" one's self in an upcoming game.

I did that in a big way with Dragon Age RPG -- spent several years on that one every day on the developer forum. It was obvious after a three or so years, they were "dropping the ball". I did not like the result -- graded it B -- as did the serious reviewers. Hated that I had put so much of my "soul" into it screwy

Now, for DCS: WWII, I've invested my $100. I definitely wish them the best. However, I'll move on to other things -- until it "pops up" -- if it "pops up".

Not completely cured yet, I'm making a money and time investment (as an early access buyer, a Forum Moderator, and game modder) for another RPG that's in development. But, even though serious and holding up my end, I'm much more "laid back" about it -- what will be, will be -- so far, they're on the "right track" smile


Sapphire Pulse RX7900XTX, 3 monitors = 23P (1080p) + SAMSUNG 32" Odyssey Neo G7 1000R curve (4K/2160p) + 23P (1080p), AMD R9-7950X (ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 420), 64GB RAM@6.0GHz, Gigabyte X670E AORUS MASTER MB, (4x M.2 SSD + 2xSSD + 2xHD) = ~52TB storage, EVGA 1600W PSU, Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full Tower, ASUS RT-AX89X 6000Mbps WiFi router, VKB Gladiator WW2 Stick, Pedals, G.Skill RGB KB, AORUS Thunder M7 Mouse, W11 Pro
#3901686 - 01/25/14 11:07 PM Re: I actually like this DCS WWII idea [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
I understand the P-51 was a proof-of-concept for a hi-fi prop plane in the DCS engine. I get that some people just like flying around in one with working weapons and were willing to buy it. I just personally also think it needs the context or it's just an exercise.

However, that said, to go to the expense of building an entire WWII sim without knowing how it would go over... I get why ED did it as it paved the way for this. This will be what we expected more traditionally as opposed to what the P-51 release was.

The P-51 proved it's possible. Now we have to see the execution. I just hope it's worth it.



The Jedi Master



One of the rare occasions I can already say it is worth it, IMO. Even if the game world is just a grass texture and weapons don't work, as long as I can fire up those airplanes and fly around the same way I can in the P51 right now It will be worth my $50, just to flip switches and operate the aircraft.

however I think Il2 BOS was a waste of $90 and it's exactly what I thought it would be, I'm a sim masochist.

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