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#3845701 - 10/04/13 12:53 AM Misc questions  
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- Ice Offline
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Okay.... just a few questions to try and wrap my head around BS2.

1. Do you actually FLY the Shark? Or do you just plot waypoints, take off, set WP1, enable route mode, and then sit back and watch the scenery fly past? If I spot an interesting spot 5nm to the east of my current route/track, how would I best go to that point? Disengage route mode, then turn on flight director?

2. How do you turn the damn thing? I mean when you're moving forward, what's the best way to change heading? Say if you were heading 360 and want to make a left turn to heading 200? I bank the helo, but it only slips sideways slightly. Fair enough. Kick in a bit of rudder and the nose rates a bit faster.... but after a certain point, the helo starts to roll as well! I try a bit of bank, rudder, and pitch up to "pull" the nose through the turn and that gets me turning but I'm not sure if that's the correct way of doing it. Note that I'm not talking about the relaxed <15degree turns the thing does on route autopilot, I'm talking about a "get the hell out of here!" sort of turn.

3. How do I turn off Shkval? I feel like asking this question is like asking how to turn on nose-wheel steering in the F-16.... utter-n00b! I really need to dig out my BS2 manual.

4. How do you spot targets prior to using the Shkval? The mission is easy enough if you know where the baddies are, but what about a pure "hunter" mission? Say you are tasked to take out a group of tanks but they could be anywhere within a 10-mile radius of a large town? Or you are tasked to take out a convoy traveling south from City ABC to Town XYZ, but intel is sketchy where the convoy is, what route/road it's going to take, etc? I would say that scanning the terrain using the Shkval is going to be a pain, but then the Mark I Eyeball (TM) won't be very good either at 100 meters from the ground.

More questions to come, I'm sure, so I'll leave it at that for now.


- Ice
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#3845861 - 10/04/13 11:16 AM Re: Misc questions [Re: - Ice]  
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1. Well you still need to fly it once you get to the target area. Or fly it all the time like I do, never using the autopilot route mode since i'd rather do the flying myself... not that that's such a challenge since it's really easy to trim it to go nice and steady.

2. When you go fast you turn like a plane. Of course you can turn a lot faster (and lose a lot more speed) if you need to. Watch the slide slip and the vertical speed.

3. Not sure what you mean. You could: switch to a different weapon... or reset the targeting system (left hand console)... or switch master arm to off...

4. Eyeball Mk1 works pretty good in open spaces. The camera has a scanning mode fyi, i don't find it particulary useful but some guys probably like it. I usually adjust the brightness / contrast on the tv and for me that makes a big diffence.
Finding targets in towns and cities is a real pain in the ass. I think that's got to be realistic but still a #%&*$#.

disclaimer: i'm no expert... any bits of or all information above might be slightly or completely wrong... biggrin

LE: you should really try the Huey, once you get to fly that somewhat decently you will be really surprised you ever had any problems flying the Ka-52 biggrin.

#3846030 - 10/04/13 06:03 PM Re: Misc questions [Re: - Ice]  
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Molasses Offline
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1) I fly with the Flight Director on. Basically free flight with Dampeners. The dampeners help stablize the aircraft when its flying and keeps the pilot inputs smooth. When the flight director is off the Dampners and Force Trim work to hold the aircraft in a straight line. When I need to do other things like take sip of my coffee or look over a breifing or map I will turn off the Flight director and let the aircraft fly itself. (Auto pilot to some extent)

2) Like D13th said at fast speeds you can trun like an air plane. The more the angle of attack the more speed bleeds off.

3)Turn off the shval by click on the Reset button just above the Fuel shutoff levers on the left side. I have this mapped to my HOTAS. Nose wheel steering is like a shopping cart. When you add right rudder the wheel turns right. when you add left rudder the wheel turns left. it follows the inputs of your rudder.

4)I spot targest mostly with my eyes. I have my track IR Z axis tuned to the Zoom Axis. This allows me to move my head in close to zoom. I have a good sized dead zone built for this. But this allows me to scan much more territory in much greater detail than I can do with the shval. Once I spot a target I manuver to get it in the HUD then place the Shval circle over it. Then I can zoom in with the shval and ID the target. I find this method highly effective. On occasion I do miss something which is the limitation of the Mark I Eyeball even if it is on styroids.

Last edited by Molasses; 10/04/13 06:05 PM.
#3846039 - 10/04/13 06:32 PM Re: Misc questions [Re: - Ice]  
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What Molasses said works pretty good. You can also use the backspace key (default key mapping) to turn of the Shkval.

Looking for convoys without a proper reference point is not easy at all. I usually use the eyeball+IFR (I follow roads) method. If the convoy is traveling north from town ABC, I fly in that general direction low and slow, look for a road heading the same way, and see if it leads me to them.


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#3847349 - 10/07/13 09:55 PM Re: Misc questions [Re: - Ice]  
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Thanks for the responses guys!

I've now got a bit of understanding and appreciation for the trim/autopilot controls. However, I now find that the Flight Director mode confuses me. Also, hover-hold with FD on is crap! Can you hover with FD on?

A few more questions:

5. What's the best way to engage moving ground targets with the gun? Can it even hit moving targets? I find that it does not seem to compute lead at all, even with the "moving target" button turned on. The Shkval can lock on and follow the target, but the gun rounds are either short or fall behind the target.

6. What's the toughest target a gun can engage? I know it can fire two types of ammo, but can the AP ones kill a BMP or a tank?

7. How high do you fly in the Black Shark? I find that flying NOE, 10-15 meters above the ground is fun and I feel all sneaky, but my sight range is crap and even with the Shkval, it won't want to fire unless I'm within 6.5-7.2km from target. Okay, so I understand that lower = less range, but I don't want to be at great heights just to engage targets at 7.5-8.0km!


- Ice
#3847353 - 10/07/13 10:06 PM Re: Misc questions [Re: - Ice]  
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5. Are you lasing the target? Without the laser it can only be so accurate, with the laser on it as accurate distance information. Also the aspect to the target matters. If you are perpendicular to the target its harder for the rounds to hit.

6. You *can* kill a tank with the AP rounds, but it takes quite a lot of rounds. My rule of thumb is anything armored I use the AP and anything lightly armored or lower I use HE. Light APCs like BDRMs and Strikers are prime HE targets. Maybe a BMP-1 or a Bradley can be taken out with HE, but that is pushing it. Remember the gun on the Ka-50 is the same gun that the BMP-2 uses!

7. 50-200 meters is low enough that you can use the terrain for evasive cover, but high enough that you can get decent situational awareness.

Last edited by mrskortch; 10/07/13 10:07 PM.
#3847371 - 10/07/13 10:34 PM Re: Misc questions [Re: - Ice]  
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Thanks for the info regarding flight altitudes! I have to say that anything past 150 seems high!

I can't remember if I was lasing... but I was doing this right after finishing my last Vikhr. I'll need to test and check some more. Also, aspect did not play a role at all. My target was a civilian vehicle and was moving along a road. It did not matter if it was travelling perpendicular to me, or directly towards or away from me.... the rounds fell short. I only killed it at 2.1km away.... I guess by this time I was so close that the bullets did not have too much lag.

As for the gun, yes, I am aware it is also mounted on a BMP! However, it does not seem accurate at all --- simply put, I can group more rounds on a tank in the A10's gun than I can from a stable-hover BS gun.


- Ice
#3847617 - 10/08/13 11:58 AM Re: Misc questions [Re: - Ice]  
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Molasses Offline
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Missouri
What you are describing sounds like the lack of laser. With out the laser the shval has no distance perception. I have been in a hover before on stationary targets and had trouble hitting them. You can lase the first target and as long as the distance doesn't change much. You can turn off the laser and shoot other vehicles in the group based on the previous laser reading. However if the distance changes you will need to relase to get another elevation solution.

#3847861 - 10/08/13 10:50 PM Re: Misc questions [Re: - Ice]  
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Does the laser fire automatically when locking up a target? Or do I have to manually lase?

Also, next question:

8. When engaging a convoy of stationary vehicles, I fire one Vikhr at the first target, but I find that I can hit the target, slew the Shkval, lock a 2nd target.... and be tapping my fingers waiting for the countdown to finish and get the "C" launch cue. Is there a way to fire Vikhrs faster?


- Ice
#3848036 - 10/09/13 09:58 AM Re: Misc questions [Re: - Ice]  
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The laser fires on pressing (or holding) target lock. So you have to "re-range" the target if the distance is changing.

8. No.

#3848042 - 10/09/13 10:36 AM Re: Misc questions [Re: - Ice]  
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Ah, so if the target were moving directly towards me and I lased it and showed 7.1km... if I wait a few seconds and fire the gun, the rounds will fall BEHIND the target? Interesting.

8. Crappy Russian tech... frown


- Ice
#3848086 - 10/09/13 01:08 PM Re: Misc questions [Re: - Ice]  
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Molasses Offline
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Missouri
Well take into consideration that the KA-50 is early to mid 80s technology. For the time the KA-50 was a very advanced and ahead of its time.

By todays standards you might say "Crappy Russian tech..." but in its day... it was bad to the bone. Me? I still think its a bad to the bone machine.

I love the chopper. Its fast its nimble the Targeting system though it has draw backs is easy to operate and understand and you can blow stuff up from a safe distance. lol

#3848245 - 10/09/13 06:09 PM Re: Misc questions [Re: - Ice]  
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Molasses Offline
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Missouri
I use to think the Unguided Rockets were useless. However the rockets were never ment to be fired one or two at a time they need to be fired in Volleys on infantry or other lightly armored vehicles. You can get in close with them and shoot them one at a time but when stuff is shooting back I don't much like doing that.

The volley fired rockets when using the shval remind me of a Cluster Bomb when they hit. I have only been effective at range with the rockets when I fire them this way.

The Fire Control computer will also need to use the Laser to range the target just like the when you use the gun.

#3848352 - 10/09/13 10:24 PM Re: Misc questions [Re: - Ice]  
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Just #%&*$# that the weapons systems isn't "cycling through" fast enough.

Re: rockets, you either need lots of rockets or lots of targets. However, I feel that they are a waste of pylon space. The Vikhrs provide the most standoff distance, precision, and killing power. The gun requires you to be closer, but you're still a good ways off, plus the accuracy is okay. The rockets are kinda like the "damn it, I don't have anything else, might as well see if I can hit anything with this weapon."

The Vikhrs are there to kill the biggest threats, the gun is there to kill softer threats, and the rockets are just there to bully all the non-combatants that are left behind.

Why didn't anyone think of putting 4 Vikhr launchers instead of just 2?


- Ice
#3848459 - 10/10/13 03:33 AM Re: Misc questions [Re: - Ice]  
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Molasses Offline
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Missouri
because Vikhrs aren't economically feasible to kill infantry. LOL

You need the rockets for lightly armored vehicles and troops. The commander will be mad if he finds out you took out a $200 Nissan truck with a $10,000 vikhrs.

#3848465 - 10/10/13 03:57 AM Re: Misc questions [Re: - Ice]  
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There was a cool article that I saw posted a while back discussing the Ka-50 and its only experience of combat in Chechnya. One of the interesting tid bits I remember from the article was that the Russia pilots used only 3 Vikhers in the entire conflict. In comparison they relied mostly on guns and rockets to do the job, because there rarely was a target where the Vikher would be best. In DCS most scenarios have the Ka-50 in a role where it requires usage of the Vikhers and the guns/rockets are there for a few applicable targets or cleaning up.

#3848542 - 10/10/13 11:44 AM Re: Misc questions [Re: - Ice]  
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I don't like the smaller rockets, but the S-13 are awesome for area effect. I found that i can fire them from a respectable distance with very good results... There are two key elements, first sufficient altitude (to minimize horizontal dispersal - the "lantern" effect) and second, like Molasses said, firing in numbers. Often if there are enough targets i would fire all of them. They work very well up to APCs.

I can not employ them with precision. Firing in pairs works only from close distance, but if the targets have any defence that's obviously not such a good idea.

#3848616 - 10/10/13 06:09 PM Re: Misc questions [Re: - Ice]  
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Molasses Offline
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Missouri
Just to add to D13th... Close distance works well but with the S-13 close becomes closer. I have shot myself down with S-13s before fireing at too close of range... banghead they make a big boom.

#3848889 - 10/11/13 11:59 AM Re: Misc questions [Re: - Ice]  
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Well, if it's hard enough to hit a tank or vehicle with the rockets, hitting infantry would be even harder. Sure, you can probably get him to poop his pants and hug Mother Earth for a long while, but you'd probably get more hits with the gun than with the rockets. As for that $200 Nissan, I'd be an idiot if I'd need a Vikhr for that. A burst of HE should be more than sufficient biggrin As Korn has mentioned, it is difficult to fire the rockets with precision so you either "compensate" by firing in greater numbers (volley) or firing into a concentrated group of enemy. Other ways such as decreasing distance to target may not always be an available or wise option.

mrskortch, interesting story!

9. What is a "flat turn"? Search on Google has been poor with results. I understand this as flying forward, say, heading 360, then yawing the aircraft to, for example, 090 heading and firing weapons while the aircraft is still travelling with heading 360... is this correct? Basically, it's like "side-stepping" in first-person shooters, yes?


- Ice
#3848901 - 10/11/13 12:44 PM Re: Misc questions [Re: - Ice]  
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Molasses Offline
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Missouri
Actually with rockets you don't have to actually hit the infantry. The armor is the secret Tanks have heavy armor and it takes a 2 or 3 direct hits ith S-13 to take down a tank. However you get an S-13 in the general vacinity of a Infanty and and they go down. I have taken out 5 or 6 with one S-8 before. With the gun you almost have to hit the soldiers.

Yes a flat turn is a HUGE side slip ... using opposite rudder. The object is to keep moving while keeping your nose/weapons pointed at the target. Its a hard manuver but very effective when you have the 23mm gun pods or rockets. Also airspeed is critical too. Its a fairly low speed manuver probably inside 100kph. I personally haven't been very successful at it however it does take alot of practice and good hand and foot coordination if you have pedals... and I prefer the stand off method. lol

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