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#3841967 - 09/26/13 05:50 AM Mapping out EF2000's world  
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But first, a low-res Eurofighter video (one of my favorites)...

http://198.65.10.229/DID/Temp/21_Century_Airpower_320.mpeg

Probably on YouTube and in hi-def, with my internet speeds I can't be bothered to check.

++++++++++

On to the maps...

I have a flight sim "fetish" of flying over oil platforms at night. It started with MP's F-117, and then TAW and now EF2000. I remember a surreal moment once in TAW, a pitch black night flying over the northern Red Sea, observing the lights of the many refineries off the Saudi coast, and then seeing flickering lights far below on the sea surface. Dropping down for a closer inspection it was oil platforms burning off excess. Don't know why, it just looked cool as hell, especially under dim room lights (how I play when I'm serious).

So I thought I'd locate some of the oil platforms in EF2000 (please excuse any JPEG compression)...






Jives pretty well with the low-res moving map (blue splotches)...




And this is how I'll continue until all of the many target file items are placed on the map...




Where it's going to get really interesting is locating all the bridges and tunnels, and then mapping out the transportation routes (not sure how I'm going to map road/rail accurately yet, either by finding coordinates in another file or using the moving map for reference).

And then it'll all be cleaned up to create an entire EF2000 Atlas. Thanks again mikew for getting me the information for making maps.


Damn! I had a couple of really good EF2000 nighttime oil platform flyover pics and forgot to upload them, maybe later.



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3842100 - 09/26/13 02:51 PM Re: Mapping out EF2000's world [Re: MarkG]  
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Mark,

Would these findings assist in creating new campaigns? Being that the campaign itself is in one text file, figuring out the abstractions seems to be the key here.

I'm having trouble with the alliance matrix; it's more complicated than the square grid in TAW. Also, I haven't put a lot of time into it; first I need to apply my EF2000 code to the TAW Launcher to make it Windows 8 compatible.

Another random thought: we could probably use Super Revive to tweak settings for a custom campaign as well.


-Home Fries

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
- Robert A. Heinlein

The average naval aviator, despite the sometimes swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy, and caring. These feelings just don't involve anyone else.

#3842340 - 09/26/13 09:53 PM Re: Mapping out EF2000's world [Re: MarkG]  
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HF, I'm realizing the maps are going to take me a little while, once I get all the items placed I still have to break each map into separate pages (when necessary) while scaling text and symbols accordingly to be clearly readable on letter size paper. But I'll keep this thread updated until I'm done and post the PDF.

One really nice feature of EF2000 is having the X,Y(Z) map coordinates displayed on the moving map. Oh so many little things (i.e. MFD buttons mapped to keyboard, Ctrl shortcut in MFD screens). All is not perfect of course, I'd like to see user defined keys.

Anyway, once that's done it's back to what I believe might become my biggest programming attempt ever, and I'll summarize it into phases...

1. Read and display all campaign information from files using text and graphics where necessary.

2. Allow user to modify/adjust all campaign settings, before and during campaign.

3. Automate code from #2 for hands-off playing (i.e. aircraft swaps, resupply, alliance changes, nuking of bases, ...all done automatically via separate AI to follow an enhanced storyline.

And the ultimate (even if static/frozen), to have TAW-like AWACS capability to observe and even modify the entire campaign.

Not shooting very high, eh? smile

++++++++++

4,000,000 sq. km? Ok, that's a map that's 2000x2000 km, which of course is really 2048x2048 km (powers of 2). Moving map of 400x400 means each coord. unit = 5km (400 x 5 = 2000). You run off the map at 0 and 400 (after elegant warning) and mission shuts down. So what happens to the other 48km? Is this a border buffer for visuals so you never actually see the end of the map?

#3842595 - 09/27/13 02:00 PM Re: Mapping out EF2000's world [Re: MarkG]  
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Quick update...

The main target file...
http://198.65.10.229/DID/Temp/NORWAY_TRG.TXT

536 general "targets" on moving map resolution (i.e. airbase, town, port...not accounting for the many individual targets of each) divided into 30 separate groups.

Populating the map is looking impressive, feels like the list is growing the further I get. I've started over since the above pics for better organization (using attributed blocks, combining symbols and text as a single object w/labeling on separate lines and layers [i.e. coords now under symbol]).

At the moment it looks as if most maps will need to be divided into quadrants, so each type of map will be 4 pages of the Atlas. It'll be many pages for sure, and then after the printable maps are done it all gets converted to a VB program as the beginning of some sort of mission/campaign editor.

Where I may need help is figuring out what some of the 30 types actually refer to (i.e. v_amytwn.sss = army town? And the "v_"?) but just the location on the map may explain their meaning when I get to them. When I'm done and all research is exhausted I'll start asking questions.

#3842717 - 09/27/13 06:42 PM Re: Mapping out EF2000's world [Re: MarkG]  
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Originally Posted By: MarkG
4,000,000 sq. km? Ok, that's a map that's 2000x2000 km, which of course is really 2048x2048 km (powers of 2). Moving map of 400x400 means each coord. unit = 5km (400 x 5 = 2000).
Something I've written on that over at Combatsim:
Quote:
The unit length in TFX, EF2000 and ADF/TAW seems to be eight feet (we have already discussed that, but I'd like to recall it here) because of the following observations:
EF2000 contains a file with a cube whose sidelength is one unit, and that file is named 8feet.3.
ADF/TAW cover a terrain of about 2000 km sidelength, which is about 6,720,000 feet, using 400 tiles of 2048 units each. This is a factor of about 8,2 feet per unit.
Therefore, I believe the terrain has a sidelength of 6,553,600 feet (1,997,537.28 m) in 819,200 units.

Originally Posted By: MarkG
You run off the map at 0 and 400 (after elegant warning) and mission shuts down. So what happens to the other 48km? Is this a border buffer for visuals so you never actually see the end of the map?
In ADF/TAW, I remember seeing holes in the terrain which I cannot find in the game files, so I assume the terrain is repeating and the edge looks pretty ugly.

On the target files: I have C++ source code for parsing them, if you need it (150 lines of code).

Regards, Pjotr

Last edited by Krycztij; 09/27/13 06:49 PM.
#3843314 - 09/29/13 04:21 PM Re: Mapping out EF2000's world [Re: MarkG]  
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Heh heh, I should have known you CS guys already had this stuff all figured out, probably a long time ago. smile

Krycztij, I'll get back to you on your code, and I'm really going to have to start reading CS to see what I might understand this time around. I just want to get these maps done before moving on to anything else, but thank you very much for explaining the EF2000 (DID) measurement system. I think when the maps are done and I start playing with distances and geometry within AutoCAD it'll really start clicking for me.

Thanks.



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#3843318 - 09/29/13 04:32 PM Re: Mapping out EF2000's world [Re: MarkG]  
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A couple of progress pics and comments.

But first, some more low-res entertainment...
http://198.65.10.229/DID/Temp/Gabriels_Oboe1.mpeg

And pics (a little further along than text file scrolling indicates)...





I'm placing everything on a single map (lots of overlapping text) and then I'll separate onto separate maps using layers.

Man, this map is HUGE! About to start on bridges, tunnels and dams, weather permitting (hoping for rain) I'll get a lot done today.



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#3844004 - 09/30/13 11:56 PM Re: Mapping out EF2000's world [Re: MarkG]  
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A quick update.

But first...
http://198.65.10.229/DID/Temp/Round_Up_320_240.mpeg

~66% done, all locations placed except bridges, tunnels and dams which I'm working on now, plus a few bigger city items...



Obviously there's plenty of cleanup to do.

Anyone who remembers Microprose F-19/F-117 might remember flying stealth missions from Lakselv (top left corner) to Murmansk and Polyarnyye...




For now I'm going to place road and rail using moving map which should complete object placement.



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#3844103 - 10/01/13 08:05 AM Re: Mapping out EF2000's world [Re: MarkG]  
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Everything from NORWAY.TRG has been placed on the map and I'm adding land routes...





Note that moving the moving map background exactly half a unit down and half a unit to the left made everything line up perfectly across the entire map.



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#3844240 - 10/01/13 03:37 PM Re: Mapping out EF2000's world [Re: MarkG]  
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Looking good! thumbsup


-Home Fries

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
- Robert A. Heinlein

The average naval aviator, despite the sometimes swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy, and caring. These feelings just don't involve anyone else.

#3844440 - 10/01/13 08:42 PM Re: Mapping out EF2000's world [Re: MarkG]  
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Thanks, HF. smile

I just wasn't up to the other stuff yet. The scripting language in the installer was Greek to me and (much to my surprise) the VB launcher was hard for me to follow. It looked like some of my own programs, borrowing code from Karl Peterson's site (I gave him a donation once smile ) and actually understanding the code only after a thorough line-by-line study. The outdated PCs with internet not up to the task of file sharing services just made it that much worse. Argh.

Anyway, I needed to get my head back in the game with something more comfortable, and I've always wanted better maps for playing EF2000 (maybe one day we sharpen up the MFD moving map?).

++++++++++

I want to point out that map making in AutoCAD has some advantages. As you know I'm placing items on the 400x400 map grid (great info by Krycztij above)...



The cool thing is that a 'unit' is arbitrary in AutoCAD, when I'm done I'm going to scale a copy of the map up to match real-world game measurements.

More importantly, the map isn't just lines and text. Each symbol has fields attached which store information. For example, when I double click a bridge I get this dialog box...



...because I've associated two fields (Name and Coords) with the bridge symbol. I could add rotation, color or whatever if I need to, or separate the X and Y and add a Z, whatever I want. By storing info which each object you can export the info to a text file, spreadsheet or data base using templates.

And the reverse is true, you can use AutoCAD's built in VB editor (VBA) and code a VB6 program to build stuff in AutoCAD. And the older versions of AutoCAD (pre-2007, I use 2000i and LT 2002) exports to 3DS for game related content, including materials, lighting, etc. So I'm hoping to start taking advantage of some nifty things that AutoCAD and VB can do.

#3844454 - 10/01/13 09:03 PM Re: Mapping out EF2000's world [Re: MarkG]  
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You know, this has great potential for multiplayer campaigns. Since only the host can see what's going on, he can always communicate "We're attacking the HQ building at Hammerfest airfield" and people can bring up the atlas to see its location, runway heading, visual points, etc.


-Home Fries

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
- Robert A. Heinlein

The average naval aviator, despite the sometimes swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy, and caring. These feelings just don't involve anyone else.

#3844501 - 10/01/13 10:14 PM Re: Mapping out EF2000's world [Re: MarkG]  
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When I get to organizing I'll get input from you guys as to which coordinates need to be displayed (major airbases, towns, etc.). Every object has a name and coordinate which can be displayed (as you see on some pics) but obviously this gets messy, we can choose which ones we want to see.

Also, there's free AutoCAD clones out there...
http://www.solidworks.com/sw/products/free_2d_tools.htm?scid=hp_acrd_dl_free2d

...which can open DWGs just as well as AutoCAD (epically the old 2000 format I use), and I'll upload the free viewer Autodesk released for the 2000 version. It's VERY easy to use, limited to turning layers on and off (the different objects and labels), getting distances and printing.

Also, I want to include the airbase drawings from the Manual. I don't have precise vertices but I can put each page on a graph (they're coming unglued so it'll be easy) and use a protractor for relation to North Arrow. I'm also going to put bar scales (km and miles) on each page for measuring precise distances.



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#3844526 - 10/01/13 11:13 PM Re: Mapping out EF2000's world [Re: MarkG]  
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Was just thinking about something...

When the hardcopy stuff is all polished and printed, gotta work on a digital map. But first, to really look at what's already accomplished (i.e. the viewer, repacking the DAT, etc.).

I'd love to see an AWACS/JSTARS-like project for the EF2000 campaign. I'm thinking old-school display like you see in this book from 1987...



Recognize the map?



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#3845249 - 10/03/13 05:22 AM Re: Mapping out EF2000's world [Re: MarkG]  
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You know the drill by now...
http://198.65.10.229/DID/Temp/Staying_in_Command_320.mpeg

Routes taking me a while, noticed it works best to place every vertex using a half unit grid (800x800 vs. 400x400 for same area)...



Also, there are some discrepancies...



The worse is pictured to the left at coordinate 194,153, the horizontal yellow line is the actual highway/interstate/motorway but it doesn't show on the map. The small stretch of road to the right (the brown splotch) doesn't exist.

Another problem area is below the scaled-up area, although not as bad (and hasn't been verified so I didn't point to it). Maybe one day we can update the moving map, but the Atlas will be correct.

Other things to do so I might be slowing down until Sunday evening.

#3846604 - 10/06/13 05:26 AM Re: Mapping out EF2000's world [Re: MarkG]  
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Quick follow-up to the above...

I had always planned to go back and clean up the routes at a slightly higher resolution...



...but thanks to TFXplorer I can draw acurate routes as I go...





So, many thanks to the developer of TFXplorer and anyone involved in the project, what a slick tool!


#3846646 - 10/06/13 08:31 AM Re: Mapping out EF2000's world [Re: MarkG]  
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I'm glad you like it.

There are still unsolved problems with EF2000's terrain — e.g. we don't understand how tile randomization works. If I remember correctly, TFXplorer will show bridges with wrong rotation in two or three places (but you'll recognize the errors easily).

If you have any ideas on that, or if you want to see the source code, just discuss here.

Regards, Pjotr

Last edited by Krycztij; 10/06/13 08:31 AM.
#3846687 - 10/06/13 01:49 PM Re: Mapping out EF2000's world [Re: MarkG]  
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Your program is wonderful, Krycztij. cheers

I figured out Shift S (TOD) and Ctrl S (distances), if I had only one request it would be the ability to enter X,Y location coordinates (vs. always starting from Bergen).

A day I've been dreading but knew was inevitable, for this I'll embrace C/C++. Can't do much today, but could you give me a heads up on what I'll need to view the source (i.e. VS C++ 2012 Express)? Thanks.

++++++++++

On the routes, I'm keeping each route vertex on the grid (corners are simply filleted with .5 radius in bottom pic) hoping this will eventually lead to something of a tangible ground war/supply lines (vs. implied). The Manual gets a little creative on p.312...

==========
"THE WARGEN SYSTEM

HOW THE CONFLICT ARE DRIVEN

Selection of ground forces and placement of air defenses.

For Ground based vehicles the most appropriate trucks and tanks are selected for offensive or supply missions. The choice of the safest supply routes to use that day will allow the required amount of supply through.

Placement for all 500 SAM sites, and 100 plus AAA guns is also calculated.

Placement of battle vehicles in the currently disputed areas of the world is carried out as follows...

For Ships: placement of the carrier fleet adjacent to the current area of the most offensive operations. Selection of the safest supply routes to use to get ships either to or from ports for supply. Attack-ships are positioned when an attempt is made to capture a base."
==========

Eh, my campaigns seem to be missing trucks and tanks and I have yet to engage a carrier fleet. Obviously was meant to be but apparently unfinished, and I really hope we can make WarGen all that DID meant it to be.

Otherwise the campaign is so excellent, still captures my imagination ("The Russians are coming!")

But even if we can never include truck and tank plinking in the 3D world, at least we can give text-based news reports of troop movement based on actual coordinates and in a way that affects base supply, by using a separate campaign generator/manager that edits the campaign files as one would do manually using the current add-ons. That's the intention anyway, other than having a nice set of maps.

#3846692 - 10/06/13 02:11 PM Re: Mapping out EF2000's world [Re: MarkG]  
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Originally Posted By: MarkG
Your program is wonderful, Krycztij. cheers
Thank you :-)

Originally Posted By: MarkG
I figured out Shift S (TOD) and Ctrl S (distances), if I had only one request it would be the ability to enter X,Y location coordinates (vs. always starting from Bergen).
You should be able to reach any location quickly using NUMPAD 2, 4, 6, and 8. Once you get used to it, it should be just as quick as entering numbers into the console.

Originally Posted By: MarkG
A day I've been dreading but knew was inevitable, for this I'll embrace C/C++. Can't do much today, but could you give me a heads up on what I'll need to view the source (i.e. VS C++ 2012 Express)? Thanks.
Yes, Visual Studio 2012 Express for Desktop is sufficient. You can use it to compile the 64-bit version. If you want to compile the 32-bit version, you'll need the good old Visual Studio 2010 (because it's compatible to Windows XP).

In exchange, could you please give a short summary on which files contain road information and how it is stored? I'd love to include that into TFXplorer one day. I think Mike already gave me a hint for ADF/TAW, but I don't know where to find it in EF2000. Thanks! :-)

#3847274 - 10/07/13 07:29 PM Re: Mapping out EF2000's world [Re: MarkG]  
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Krycztij, prepare to be disappointed. frown

I have no idea where the road and rail information (i.e. vertices) are to found, I'm only tracing out the route valleys using the moving map (NORWMMAP.bmp). Wherever that file or info is, I'd imagine it's pretty big, there's a lot of track and asphalt winding through this gigantic map! I'd love to get that detailed with mapping.

Judging by some of the features of EF2000 Reloaded and playing with the viewer (thanks for the tip about using number keys for relocating, this helps a lot), I'll be playing serious catch-up to what you guys already know about the game and campaign.

I'm tied up for another day or two (catching up on outside work with this gorgeous weather) so I'll get back to you on the viewer code as well. I need to get VS2012 installed first among other things (with Satellite Internet you have to plan ahead for both daily bandwidth and speed) and finish the maps.

I wanted to quote the Manual once more, p.310...

==========
“In practice, WARGEN manages an area of ever 4,000,000 square km and controls the operations of over 1000 planes, 2000 ground units, and 500 ships.
...
In addition, keeping on good terms with non-combatant countries means that you can use their road/rail network and ports to bring in your supplies. If they become angry with you, they will not allow you to use their transport network, thereby cutting your supply network and making life easier for the enemy!"
==========

Hmmm...


Also note the original TactCom pre-release notes...

==========
From the DID website:

EF2000 Upgrade Details

Please note: The upgrade should be available by the end of January 1996 and the information detailed below is subject to change.

FIXES

Missions - several missions were not working in the right way, and these have now been fixed. Problems included incorrect attack patterns, and improper weapons delivery. With computer controlled flights, lead aircraft no longer fly lower than wingmen when terrain following.

Pilot's wingmen will fly below 500 ft when terrain following.

Ground vehicles no longer appear on top of each other in Campaign.

No loss of target lock when changing AA weapons.

Anti-ship missions now occur in the Campaign.

Damage systems are no longer swamped by the distorting MFD effect. Individual warning messages can be read correctly on the right-hand MFD.

The plane shakes about in the flak fields.

Radar is disassociated from the weapons selection. If you are flying with radar switched off, selecting S-225 or AMRAAMS will not turn the radar back on automatically. This improves stealth tactics.

Sea Eagle and other ground attack patterns now work correctly with wingmen.

Carrying weapons has a more pronounced effect on the aircraft performance. A full bomb load will mean a longer take-off time and greater drag.

We will include a command to attack ground targets. This is called 'Running in' and the sound sample has already been made.

Dumping all stores should not trigger rockets and missiles. These items simply fall-off the plane and drop to earth.

When enemies fire missile salvoes, they are more widely spaced and therefore more difficult to spoof.

Cannons are now more effective against aerial targets.

There are more long-range strategic CAPs in Campaign.

SAMs and AAA will be much more evident as you fly to targets. In addition, targets will be much more heavily defended.

Various sorting and stitching problems with the landscape polygons have now been fixed.

AAA and SAMs now conserve their use of ammunition thus remaining a threat for longer.

UPGRADES

Network Campaign will allow four or possibly more players to participate.

There will be scramble missions in Campaign, where the player will be expected to take-off and intercept incoming enemy aircraft.

In-game configuration settings will be saved automatically after one selection.

Neutral aircraft (blue) will now fire upon you when you intrude into neutral airspace.

When ground collision is imminent, a Nagging Nora 'pull-up' voice warning is given, and a break 'X' is drawn on the HUD.

Finland can now be invaded in Campaign.

Helicopters now appear in campaign as Forward Air Controllers.

When approaching enemy airbases in Campaign, the enemy fighters will scramble to intercept you.

Shift and return will automatically select cannons. This feature has been added for owners of ThrustMaster equipment.

The AA predictor has been upgraded to include a 'snake'.

There is an extending bar to indicate progress of software loading.

The player can arm the plane in Campaign.

Keyboard controls for adjusting radar scan range and mode have been added.

It's now possible to choose your own weapon loadout prior to a networked mission.

More detailed mission debriefings. Including debriefings for wingmen in the campaign.

Names under "locked" network players as with "king of the skies" now available in other network games (press shift S).

Missiles now available in "king of the skies".

Code now 10-20% faster on 486-based systems.

Four player CAP missions can now be played in the network.

We have provided shortcut keys - R and D - to enable the player to switch on these systems without having to look down at the MFDs.

There is more detailed debriefing information in the Campaign. This includes a visual path and event marker to show where the planes have flown, and what happened at specific points.

There is a key combination 'Shift L' that will allow last message recall.

AWACS information is now more accurate.
==========

Helicopters now appear in campaign as Forward Air Controllers?

I believe most of this was done, although I don't recall seeing helicopters in a campaign.

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by F4UDash4. 03/24/24 09:21 PM
They got fired after this.
by Wigean. 03/20/24 08:19 PM
Grown ups joke time
by NoFlyBoy. 03/18/24 10:34 PM
Anyone Heard from Nimits?
by F4UDash4. 03/18/24 10:01 PM
RIP Gemini/Apollo astronaut Tom Stafford
by semmern. 03/18/24 02:14 PM
10 years after 3/8/2014
by NoFlyBoy. 03/17/24 10:25 AM
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